You O gauge guys may find this question too elementary, but with the new S gauge Polar Express set having the first locomotive that uses LionChiefPlus/FlyerChief, I am trying to figure out just how does the operating system work?
Is there a simple explanation? I have looked at everything on the Lionel Website, but I don't have a clear understanding of how the system works on the basic level, i.e. is the signal sent through the rails? if you rewire your layout to run MTH DCS, will that screw up the use of Flyerchief/LionChief Plus?
Even worse, I wonder if the new LionChief Plus Universal remote will allow you to control conventional locomotive with LionChief Plus? Is there a easy way to retrofit a conventional locomotive to run on LionChief Plus?
Right now I have 3 different operating systems on my layout and I am not anxious to add a 4th nor do I want to buy a locomotive that I can not run without making other locomotives inopperable.
LittleTommy
Lionchief plus loco will work with the remote supplied or conventional transformer.
The remote is coded to that engine, not the rails. The loco picks up power from the rails, but the remote controls it. The remote only runs that loco. It cant be used for other locos. You have one remote for each Lionchief loco.
As long as you supply near 18volts to the rails it will work.
Thanks Michael. I was wondering, though, how the signal gets to the engine. The S Gauge Polar Express engine has cast on handrails, so the signal is not tranmitted to the engine through the handrails which are antenae with TMCC and Legacy. Since the engine will run on either AC or DC the signal does not use a DC signal through the rails.
My concern is that, since I don't know how the signal gets to the engine, I don't know what would keep the signal from getting to the engine. I already have multiple control systems operating on my layout and will have another when MTH releases the F3's with DCS in S Gauge. I am worried about compatability. I would prefer not to have to rewire my 25 year old layout. If there is an incompatability, I'd value knowing how to work around it.
LittleTommy ...I am worried about compatability. I would prefer not to have to rewire my 25 year old layout. If there is an incompatability, I'd value knowing how to work around it.
...I am worried about compatability. I would prefer not to have to rewire my 25 year old layout. If there is an incompatability, I'd value knowing how to work around it.
Michael6268As long as you supply near 18volts to the rails it will work.
That's all there really is to it. It's that simple. No compatability issues at all.
Rob
It is a wireless remote control. The LionChief remote transmits signals through the air, and the locomotive receives the signals and adjusts speed, rings the bell, etc. depending on what you told it to do.
The hand held remote is battery powered. The locomotive receives power for both the electronics and the motor through the track. Like TMCC/Legacy or DCS, you need to keep the power to the track around 18 volts, and the electronics in the locomotive adjust the power to the motor to adjust the speed of the locomotive. However, unlike TMCC/Legacy or DCS, no signal goes through the track. REPEAT, NO SIGNAL GOES THROUGH THE TRACK.
It might be easier to visualize as operating similar to one of those little remote control cars you pick up at places like Radio Shack. A radio signal goes from the controller to the car. In that case, the car has batteries to provide power to the car electronics and motor. In the case of a LionChief locomotive, it receives power from the track.
ADCX Rob LittleTommy ...I am worried about compatability. I would prefer not to have to rewire my 25 year old layout. If there is an incompatability, I'd value knowing how to work around it. Michael6268 As long as you supply near 18volts to the rails it will work. That's all there really is to it. It's that simple. No compatability issues at all.
Michael6268 As long as you supply near 18volts to the rails it will work.
Ditto, it is very simple.
Within 10 feet of my layout I have a cordless phone and a radio controlled garage door opener. I have never experienced any interference problems from anything.
You just put the Lionchief on the track. Supply 16-18 volts. Put some smoke fluid in the locomotive or turn off the smoke. Turn on the remote and you are off and running.
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I read about you getting a new S gauge engine with DCS in it, as long as you have a DCS unit; the TIU you should be able to use it on one of the TIU's outputs. You might want to ask MTH about compatibility between scales with DCS.
LittleTommy You O gauge guys may find this question too elementary, but with the new S gauge Polar Express set having the first locomotive that uses LionChiefPlus/FlyerChief, I am trying to figure out just how does the operating system work? Is there a simple explanation? I have looked at everything on the Lionel Website, but I don't have a clear understanding of how the system works on the basic level, i.e. is the signal sent through the rails? if you rewire your layout to run MTH DCS, will that screw up the use of Flyerchief/LionChief Plus? Even worse, I wonder if the new LionChief Plus Universal remote will allow you to control conventional locomotive with LionChief Plus? Is there a easy way to retrofit a conventional locomotive to run on LionChief Plus? Right now I have 3 different operating systems on my layout and I am not anxious to add a 4th nor do I want to buy a locomotive that I can not run without making other locomotives inopperable. LittleTommy
I have nine Lionchief Plus locomotives, five steamers and four diesels. I run two to six at a time for several hours every day.
First, there is a big difference between " . . .chief" and "chief Plus." ". . . chief" works only with its remote control, and that remote control is quite simple: you have aknob that you turn to make the train go faster or slower. You can activate the whistle and bell. Speed control and features are otherwise like a conventional loco, but you are using a remote. You can run the loco on any track powered by the wall-wart that comes with a ". . . chief" set or a normal conventional power supply. You cannot operate a "chief" loco conventionally.
". . . chief Plus" is the same in regards to power supply: you can also operate it with either a supply at a constant 18V like the wall warts or from, say a CW-40 or 80 and ZW-L or Z4K or whatever. But has two operating differences from ". . . chief", one obvious, one not. First, the obvious difference is that it operates in either conventional or with its remote: there is a switch, usually on the underside of the unit, that switches it from one to the other mode. In conventional it operates cxonventionally: exactly as any other conventional loco.
Second, when operating in remote mode, it is much better behaved and has more features than it does in conventional, or than does a ". . . chief loco." The remote looks a lot like the "chief" (non-plus) one - you twist a wheel to control speed forward and backward. But "Plus" locos have a completely different remote control system, nearly as I can determine, which is centered around a very good cruise control. The remote controls the speed that that cruise is set to, and the loco has electronics to use track power to maintain that set speed no matter what. They start in their lowest speed step at a remarkably slow speed (about 2 mph, just a creep) and the next step step is just a bit more and the next a bit more increase than that, etc., and further turning the wheel selects speeds steps up to about 65 mph or 'too fast' in increments, each a greater increase than the one before. At any speed setting, the loco will pull a long train at a constant speed regardless of load or incline. The remote operates the whistle and horn (like 'chief, I think) and couplers, and some crewtalk, and if you read the manual carefully (it is a bit complicated to follow on how to do it but you learn) adjustment of the diesel or steam sounds volume from the remote.) Thus, ". . . chief Plus" is really a sort of Legacy-light in that it gives you far superior control and features compared to conventional control at a lower cost and without all the standard equipment.
Disadvantage of either is that it will operate in remote only with its particular remote, because the remotes are programmed for each loco by roadnumber. If you buy a Lionchief Plus B&O NW2 road number 9555, its remote will have 9555 printed on it, and the loco will operate only with that remote (and vice versa) - if you loose the remote you have to buy another from LIonel, any other remote will not work.
On the other hand, you can operate two or more LC or LC+ locos on the same track or in the same room, each with their different rmeotes - they do not interfere with one another.
There is an advantage here: any remote will operate two of the same loco together. If you lash up two LC+ B&O 9555s, as I often do, they will both operate with either of the two remotes labeled "9555" that I have - I need only use one.
I have not owned any Flyer locos. My experience with Lionchief is limited to several I bought for my grandkids. They are starter-grade quality and feeature locos and run fairly well.
Lionchief Plus locos, on the other hand are mid-range price and features.. The are extremely durable, have good sound - not Legacy quailtiy perhaps but very good volume and variation, excellent cruise control and speed control in remote mode, very good operating direction lights, they are incredibly good smokers, and they pull very hard, the NW-2 being the weakest because it is the lightest and among the diesels in the only one thathas only one truck powered.
And there is this BIG advantage. " . . . chief" and "chief Plus" are designed and the manuals tell you to operate them in remote mode with 18V power to the track, but either will operate fine, with no damage to loco I've seen in perhaps 2000 hours so far, at voltages as low as 10V from a normal power supply:
- With " . . . chief" (no plus) you can set track voltage to, say, 12 volts, thus limiting the top speed of the locos being operated by the remote, to keep eager young hands from running them too fast through curves, etc.
- With ". . . chief Plus" you can't do that trick: the remote's dial controls the speed setting that the loco's electronics are set to meet, which is a function of motor RPM, not voltage. Set to, say, speed setting five, at 12V, the loco will go exactly the same speed as it would at 18V, it just will not pull as many cars (but it will still pull surprisingly hard).
And so you can do this very useful trick - you can run a LC+ loco on the same track with a conventional loco or a Legacy loco running in conventional. I do this every day, for example I am running two trains on my main loop today (powered by one output channel of a ZW-L), the first train pulled by a Legacy U30C diesel in conventional , and the second by a pair of LC+ NW-2 switchers (B&O 9555) on the same loop, located on opposite sides of the loop with about twenty feet of track between them. I fire up the track to about 12 V, and all three locos come alive, the U30C rumbled in idle, with the two LC+ locos beeping (they want to sense their remote's signal). I turn on one 9555 remote, and the NW2s settle down with lights on and engine idling. I then start the U30C by hitting the direction button, watching it start and adjusting the throttle to set it to a good slow speed. I then twist the LC+ remote's knob and set the two NW-2 to moving at a speed that maches that. I now have a conventional train and a LC+ train operating at the same time on the same loop. If I adjust the trhottle to increase the speed of the U30C, the NW2s do not change speed - as long as the speed is about about 10-11 volts they ignore anything else, and to adjust their speed to match the now faster U30C, I have to adjust their remote's dial. In this way, operating the U30C with the ZW-L throttle, and the NW2 pair (or a single one, or another LC+ loco if I prefer) as I want, I have independent control of both a conventional and remote loco on the same track. I have never tried this with legacy but imagine you could do it with that system, too, but it is easy to do with LC+ and routine at my house now.
If no one has ever done it that way, it might be fun to try.
In the new 2015-2 Lionel catalog Lionel is introducing a universal LC+ remote that operates all LC engines up to 3 at a time.
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