Can anyone tell me if CTT has a list of advertisers on this web site, and have you ever thought of having a consolidated add with all advertisers or sponsors in a prominent location in the forums or website?
The reason I ask is that many discussions on the forum lead to purchases.
Also, do you advertisers ever post to the forum letting us know about sales, pre-orders etc etc?
Under the Our Magaine pulldown menu (Brown bar, above left), you will find the Advertisers Links button.
http://ctt.trains.com/home/magazine/advertising%20links.aspx
Bob Keller
Personally, fwiw I like this format on the CTT forum. It allows hobbyists to share advice (people here are very helpful and readily offer their time and assistance) while at the same time avoiding an excessively commercial atmosphere where people compete to bring attention to themselves often as a thinly veiled attempt to gin up business of some sort. I have no issue with people trying to make a living -- we all have bills to pay -- but this forum allows the business side to exist along the hobby / personal side without being intrusive or compromising the quality of the exchanges. Stated differently, when people here help you or offer advice, I have little in the way of concern that the advice is compromised by commercial motivations. My .02, fwiw.
Ogaugeoverlord Under the Our Magaine pulldown menu (Brown bar, above left), you will find the Advertisers Links button. http://ctt.trains.com/home/magazine/advertising%20links.aspx
Frequently I purchase advertising for our company and as I review the presentation format of the CTT website referenced by Bob, I would be hard pressed to spend my company's money. The first glance must further your interest and CTT's format is lacking. Sell the sizzle, not the steak. (Sorry Bob!)
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
These are not "forum sponsors" but a list of advertisers from the magazine. I will pass your comments to the ad sales guys.
I just made the suggestion as I know for a fact the degree a forum can influence purchases..having links for your sponsors within easy sight makes good impulse purchases.
chipset35I just made the suggestion as I know for a fact the degree a forum can influence purchases..having links for your sponsors within easy sight makes good impulse purchases.
A slippery slope as we have witnessed in another venue. The quest for more and more "forum sponsors" became so insatiable the sponsors are now running the forum.
No discussions on any offerings from any supplier are allowed UNLESS the supplier being discussed is a forum sponsor.
No negative experience comments on any forum sponsor.
Any discussions where a forum sponsor raises an objection are immediately deleted.
While the goal is to provide a venue where like minded or individuals sharing a similar interests and convene and share experience and expertise, the addition of commercial sponsors is a game changer and not for the better.
Frank, I couldn't agree more! Additionally the number of threads on page 1 has been extremely cut to accommodate the new sponsor ads. Realize it is their site, but has become another commercial tool and less of a community benefit.
Don
dbaker48 Frank, I couldn't agree more! Additionally the number of threads on page 1 has been extremely cut to accommodate the new sponsor ads. Realize it is their site, but has become another commercial tool and less of a community benefit.
It got out of hand and it's reasonable to suggest it could happen here. I would not be for advertisers taking over the forum for the same reasons. I made the suggestion to the person in charge at that venue to eliminate the issue by making certain changes to their format and as it turned out the advertisers were dictating the format of the forum. The CTT forum is my place as a subscriber to digest and read member posts in a less hyperactive pace. It is far superior in many respects in terms of the readers having a free and relaxing read. Add commercials? You have got to be kidding....
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
Ogaugeoverlord These are not "forum sponsors" but a list of advertisers from the magazine. I will pass your comments to the ad sales guys.
Beats me, but if they did, I'm pretty sure they would have made it easier to find. I actually think it is a continuation of a list I used to maintain on the website starting in the late 90s.
Another point in all this - it's a big hobby - certainly with plenty of room for two magazines, yet on the other forum, there is such paranoia you cannot make any mention of CTT or the thread is deleted.
They have taken it to the extent that the words "Classic" and "CTT" are "trigger words."
If you make a post containing either of those words, the post goes to the "moderation bin" where the webmaster will read the post and determine if you are making a positive reference to the competition. If you are - the post is deleted.
Chipset, you are correct about forums inducing purchases. But one of the things that grows tiresome is when a hobby is simply equated in large measure to constant acquisition. I see a phenomena in certain hobbyist circles, trains and others, where there is an incessant hoarding of the item that is the subject of the hobby, then a snapping point when the person just starts selling everything because the person burns out. In train circles, the burn out or disposition phase often occurs after the person has reached the apex of the hobby (being a bit tounge-in-cheek here) and has his/her layout featured in a magazine.
I have been in the train hobby since I was about 4 years old and now I have two children who appear to be very interested in the hobby. We have purchased more the last few years as they want to conform our equipment to more of what they see running on the railroads, which is understandable, as we are operators, not collectors (or hoarders). At the same time, however, we are now at the point again where I am putting the brakes on all such purchases not only because of cost because you reach a point of sheer ridiculousness, in my personal view.
None of this is to disparage collecting, by the way. I view collecting as a distinctly different view of the hobby than what I would call constant acquisition where the person will buy the newest version of what they already have (sometimes numerous copies) simply to gain a latest feature or some new bauble. Collectors of trains are often motivated by the same motivations of other collectibles, from antiques to art, and have a particular interest in a certain period that they find they can investigate, learn about, and enjoy by knowing the peculiarities of items that are a product of that period of time. These folks generally pursue very specific items, and you don't see the same degree of constant buying and then mass sales etc. Collecting to me is quite different (in a positive way) than what I would call constant consumption.
All that is a long way of saying I appreciate the focus of this forum because the discussions are not constantly about buying the newest XYZ and the people offering help aren't simply doing so to call attention to their skills in a thinly veiled attempt to market goods or services. As I said above, I have no issue with making a living, we all need to do it, but those situations in my view seem to try to trick people in the sense of using friendship/comaraderie as a way to induce sales.
All my .02, fwiw.
Well, the place to complain about OGR forum policies is the OGR forum, just as the place to complain about our policies is the CTT forum. Good comments all, and I'll be sure the rest of the staff sees this thread.
I would agree with the commonsense concept that from one angle, this forum as well as the magazine promote the sales of manufacturers. The difference being emphasis on who is running the show. The editors or the advertisers? At OGR, the advertisers are in charge. Enough said about that.
The balance (here I would think) is not an easy one. That being said, I think this magazine (CTT) does what is needed for the readership. remember as a kid or adult, reading Popular Mechanics? Tips, how to articles, examples etc in effect promoted the hobby of DIY or in this case, these type of articles promote and support participation in model railroading. Add history to the mix.
After over 50 years in this hobby, I can say that as fine as the pictorial layout articles are..... its natural that after awhile, there's a sameness to them. And while in this economy, reviews of expensive to to a large extent unaffordable purchases seem more of a news feature than an advertisement.
To me its the selling of a magazine's content thats key and advertising is secondary to subscribers and readers as a need......... otherwise, you can either Google a gazillion model hobby shops that are all over the internet, or visit a local shop or keep up with catalogs. What you cannot find on the internet is whats in this magazine to a large extent and thats what sells it.
Rodger Carp is one of a less than handful of folks I consider to be a national treasure regarding the history of this hobby. Bob's down to earth and often humorous Train box, the troubleshooting feature, the staff step by step layout articles are what made me resubscribe.......not advertisers.
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Why on earth would a participant ask for advertising to be added to the forum? We are inundated with advertising at every turn. Its nice to have a place were advertising is kept to a minimum.
wallyworldcontent
And there is the magic word.
While it was used in reference to magazines, project content to the on-line forum.
The magazine won't, and really shouldn't provide content on the on-line forum. Why give away what you have spent decades building as a magazine brand?
So the on-line forum content comes from where? The members of the forum. You can have the biggest most bestest, slickest, advertiser laden forum gathering place ever conceived, but without the postings of the forum members - you have nothing but a nicely decorated room. Members generate the content and if the content generated by the members is uninteresting, censored to the wishes of advertisers, exclusionary or any number of negatives, there will be few of any visitors and contributors to the forum.
While by the very design of the sale of advertising space on a forum, content becomes censored, or dictated, it is not the advertisers who make the forum valuable - it is the "customers" - the posters who make a forum a valuable resource. Let advertisers dictate the content and you end up with a roomful of people telling each other how great the forum and the advertisers are.
There's nothing more valuable to the hobbyist than being able to ask a question on a forum "My so and so engine is doing this? Has anyone else had this problem and how do I fix it?" and to have a Bob Nelson or someone of similar depth of knowledge post the exact right answer. This guys problem is fixed and it happened in minutes instead of days. However, if Bob says - you need to get an ACME whizbanger Model #1234 to fix your problem, and ACME isn't a forum sponsor, then Bob's answer might very well get deleted because WINGO - who makes similar parts objected to the mention of ACME on a forum he is paying to provide.
Folks can pat themselves on the back all day long over what a great forum this or that is, but without the participants, you have nothing.
cwburfle Why on earth would a participant ask for advertising to be added to the forum? We are inundated with advertising at every turn. Its nice to have a place were advertising is kept to a minimum.
Also, do you advertisers ever post to the forum letting us know about sales, pre-orders etc etc?"
Of course the short answer is that no advertising is allowed to be posted to the forum. I may look the other way when someone posts something about a toy train specific train show (at least until someone reports it), but no commercial ads or personal for sale ads permitted.
In retrospect, I think I must agree with Bob Keller and many of the folks who replied here.
Better to keep CTT, just the way it is and not go the route of that OTHER magazine (3 letters), where your posts will be deleted, edited, entire threads deleted, verbal attacks and abuse from the publisher, i.e. a real BAD FORUM.
I retract my suggestion, was just trying to help, but again, in retrosepct, I think CTT has it perfect at the moment.
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