We moved into out house 6 years ago and we had nightmare water issues in the basement. Most decent rains I would shopvac over 200 gallons up. After installing a frenchdrain and sum pump 2 years ago, we have NO water and our average temp is 55-70 Degrees and 38-65% humidity year around. Do I insulate and finish the walls? Or can I just paint / drylock the walls and begin to build the layout? Comments? Questions? DIscuss :-)
either way I would drylock the walls. Then its your preferance do you want to put studs and insulation and drywall up or just leave it natural. Just remember one thing it was hard for me to do it this way but you need to concider once the layout is up especially if its against some walls you can't go back and redo the walls with studs and drywall or what ever once you start to build its hard to go back.
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Drylok is an amazing product.
When we first moved into our newly built home, the expansion bar holes in the poured concrete foundation did not seal properly and after a heavy rain, moisture would "sweat' through the openings. We didn't actually have water in the basement, but the sweating and resultant moisture was a cause for concern. So I bought a few gallons of Drylok and applied it to the basement walls with a wallpaper adhesive type brush. We never again experienced the sweating, and the smell of dampness disappeared, never to return.
Unless you want to finish your basement for other purposes, the Drylok alone will solve your problem. If you do decide to finish your walls after the Drylok application, be sure to insulate then first with rigid extruded foam sheets.
Rich
Alton Junction
Concrete floors and unfinished ceilings generate huge amounts of dust. Do what you will with that information.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Phoebe Vet Concrete floors and unfinished ceilings generate huge amounts of dust. Do what you will with that information.
Dave, good points.
The OP only mentioned walls but the floor of the basement is another source of moisture....and dust.
Seal the floor with a good basement sealer because otherwise, foot traffic will eventually cause the surface to disintegrate leaving concrete dust to blow around. In our first house, when the kids were young, they couldn't wait to race their Big Wheels on the empty, newly cured basement concrete floor. Within hours, there was a haze across the basement and rising up the stairs.
As to the basement ceiling, I have never done anything about mine, and it is amazing what falls down onto the layout including not only dust but also splintered wood from the hardwood floor staples that penetrated through the plywood sub-floor.
Train layout or no, a finished basement that adds to the useable space in the house is always good for the homes future resale value, "if and when." Do what you can when you can, you won't be sorry.
Some thoughts.
If you decide to finish the basement yourself, make sure you follow the building codes and get all the permits, inspections. Hate to go to sell and lose the deal (or have to drop the price) because your basement is not up to code.
If you hire out finishing the basement, you probably won't recover the full cost if and when you sell. Although it may make selling easier.
Finishing the basement will raise your taxes (unless you don't get permits and inspections - but even then they may find out.)
Alternatively. You can spray paint the ceiling, paint the walls, and seal/paint the floor to get a nice area for less. Add some lighting and outlets/circuits if needed.
Good luck
Paul
I vote for finishing the basement before you build the layout. As others have said, it makes re-selling the house easier, if you decide to do that. Also, it enhances the overall presentation of your layout. Everything looks more finished and professional.
George
DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT, paint your concrete walls!!!! Concrete is a naturally pourous material and water WILL seap into it. If you paint the interior of your basement walls with Drylock or other concrete paint you are preventing the moisture from getting out and over time the concrete will deteriorate.The proper way to seal a basement wall is to dig on the outside down to the footer, pressure wash the wall, and have a membrane sprayed on, then install an exterior french drain. Then on the inside have an interior french drain installed, both drains should flow to seperate sump pumps and NOT be tied together.You need to let the water move freely.Interior french drains are sufficient if exposing the foundation is not feasible.You should also look at the Basement Finishing System by Ownings Corning. It may be a pricey - but it is by far and away the BEST Basement Finishing System on the market. http://basement.owenscorning.com/
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I've done what your considering. One thing you will want to do is to put up a vapor barrier between the concrete wall and insulation and studs. Also recommend that you use a dehumidifier and set it around 70 percent or less. This way you won't develop rust on the axles or exposed steel components of your trains. I now have a new home with the layout upstairs in the former attic that I enclose with studs and insulation. But the basement has more freedom in a home. I would say JUST DO IT! Lol.
lion88roar DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT, paint your concrete walls!!!! Concrete is a naturally pourous material and water WILL seap into it. If you paint the interior of your basement walls with Drylock or other concrete paint you are preventing the moisture from getting out and over time the concrete will deteriorate.
DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT, paint your concrete walls!!!! Concrete is a naturally pourous material and water WILL seap into it. If you paint the interior of your basement walls with Drylock or other concrete paint you are preventing the moisture from getting out and over time the concrete will deteriorate.
Sorry, but I am not buying this argument. I am not a chemist, or whatever the level of expertise might be, so I cannot refute what lion88roar said, but I truly doubt that applying a coat of Drylok to the interior basement wall is going to bring down the foundation. I used Drylok on my basement walls ten years ago to prevent moisture, not active leaks, and all is well so far.
I Googled this issue extensively this morning and only read one such comment from one guy on one forum. It was quickly refuted by others on that forum, and on the same forum, the Basement Finishing System by Owens Corning was ridiculed as a high pressure marketing technique, extremely costly, and only installed by OC personnel.
If water were so damaging to concrete, our nation's dams would all be coming down.
I will agree that the exterior preparation of poured concrete walls including a water proof membrane is a highly useful step. But even this process needs to be understood. Most general contractors spray a black asphalt coating which is not water proofing, it is damp proofing. It easily cracks as the foundation wall settles or shifts. The proper water proofing membrane stretches but does not crack so it is truly water proof. It isn't that expensive, but it adds about $600 to $1,000 to the overall cost, so most contractors don't do it and don't even mention it to their customers.
richhotrain Sorry, but I am not buying this argument. I am not a chemist, or whatever the level of expertise might be, so I cannot refute what lion88roar said, but I truly doubt that applying a coat of Drylok to the interior basement wall is going to bring down the foundation.
Sorry, but I am not buying this argument. I am not a chemist, or whatever the level of expertise might be, so I cannot refute what lion88roar said, but I truly doubt that applying a coat of Drylok to the interior basement wall is going to bring down the foundation.
Where in my post did I say the foundation would fail? Go back and reread my post please!You can Google all you want - not everything you read online is true , and chemistry has nothing to do with this, it is physics. Concrete is porous meaning it absorbs water and lets water penetrate through it. I have a basement in Pittsburgh where the foundation has cracked, not from heaving machinery, not from settling, but from DECADES of water penetrating the concrete and creating the cracks. Some of it is due to freeze/thaw, but the largest cracks are BELOW the water table. I had 10 companies come in to evaluate the problem and provide 'fixes'. ALL of them told me is was due to the previous owners PAINTING the interior of the wall. I didn't feel like paying $15,000 to have an interior French drain installed along with the basement finishing system, so I attempted to alleviate the problem myself. I dug along the foundation down below the first crack, filled the crack with hydraulic cement, then installed PVC drainpipe the length of the house and tied the downspouts to the drain pipe. I then covered the pipe with 8 inches of 3/4 drainage stones, then back filled the foundation. There was nothing on the exterior of the foundation to seal it (house was built in 1928). The problem exists to this day. When I have to sell the house I will be forced to have the interior French drain installed and will most likely have to do something with the walls to cover up the flaking paint and cracks.And the Owings Corning product cannot be installed by just anyone it is pretty complex in how it is installed to prevent water from getting into the room and most importantly to prevent MOLD from building up between the foundation and the basement finishing system.
Years of water seepage isn't going to cause what I describe, and if you are only spending 10 - 15 years in your home then do what you want, but if you are like me I don't think 10 - 15 years I think "What would I do if I had to stay in this house till I die? Would I want a 15 - 20 year solution or do I want a solution I NEVER have to worry about again?"Cutting corners today only results in a larger more expensive project down the road - and I've learned this through experience...
Gentlemen,
Our water issue was coming in from below grader and since I have installed the french drain and sump pump we have had NO water issues and our average temp is 55-70 Degrees and 38-65% humidity. This is year around for the past 2 years. I think I am going to glue 1" solid foam to the walls and tape them creating a vapor barrier and then use 2x4s with Green board or beadboard and be done with it. I appreciate all of the input and feel this is the best compromise. Thanks again for all of the responses. Look for pictures of the process in the near future :-)
lion88roar Where in my post did I say the foundation would fail? Go back and reread my post please!
Where in my post did I say the foundation would fail? Go back and reread my post please!
I was referring to your use of the term "deteriorate".
I would finish the basement but with respect to the issue of water penetration, if you are unsure I would consult with a contractor / engineer who does this thing for a living. The internet is great but not everything you read, even if it is offered in good faith, should be relied upon.
88...Then why do we use concrete tanks to hold drinking water? We use concrete and masonry blocks all the time and there are sealers and paints used on both. The type of sealer specified is based upon the type of structure and what environmental challenges the structure may encountered.
Most basements in this area the country have a asphaltic sealer on the outside to prevent water leakage. We paint the inside of these walls to even further reduce moisture and it works perfect. Rocks will deteriorate if continually exposed to certain environmental conditions. Personally the worst deterioration I have seen on a concrete structure was in NW Indiana on a bridge pier where the concrete froze in the formwork and crumbled because the chemical reaction was not completed between the cement and water.
The most exotic water proofing that I know is Xypex. http://www.xypex.com/ We use the stuff inside of tunnels to keep water out. It is expensive!
As to the word deterioration, I've seen plenty of it and it does if not corrected cause failures. Kinzua Bridge deteriorated due to neglect and it failed. The anchor bolts were pulled out of the concrete.
Most over looked process by owners of a new drive: They did not let the concrete cure and it lost moisture too fast creating weaker and less durable concrete.
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
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Buckeye Riveter 88...Then why do we use concrete tanks to hold drinking water? We use concrete and masonry blocks all the time and there are sealers and paints used on both. The type of sealer specified is based upon the type of structure and what environmental challenges the structure may encountered. Most basements in this area the country have a asphaltic sealer on the outside to prevent water leakage. We paint the inside of these walls to even further reduce moisture and it works perfect.
Most basements in this area the country have a asphaltic sealer on the outside to prevent water leakage. We paint the inside of these walls to even further reduce moisture and it works perfect.
Incidentally, on the the UGL web site, the manutacturer of Drylok, is the following statement:
I guess the Romans were wrong when they used concrete to move water from the mountains to Rome, some of which is still standing 2000 years later, and then there is that big concrete dam. I think it is called Hoover. Seems like concrete will absorb a little moisture, the big problem is if it freezes. The best solution seems to be treating the outside of the wall with a water proof material. If not doable I would surely use the dry lock as a second choice. I used it on one wall in my last house and had no problems of any kind with that wall.
I had trouble with water seeping through the blocks in my last house. When we had the French drain installed, they also drilled into the core of the bottom blocks, so whatever water did get through from outside, drained directly into the trench under the floor. We also did the dri-lock, which the contractors said was a good idea. We never had another problem. I did end up finishing the basement and was very happy with it. The more comfortable you can make the room, the more time you'll want to spend in it.
My new home has a different kind of water problem, the water is coming from above the foundation. I thought I had it licked, but I just found a new stain directly above my new benchwork. Thankfully, I have not laid track yet.
I'm no engineer, but the most important advice I can give you is these three little words - "Removable ceiling tiles". I wish someone had been there to tell me that.
scrambler81 My new home has a different kind of water problem, the water is coming from above the foundation.
My new home has a different kind of water problem, the water is coming from above the foundation.
That could be a grading problem with the soil, not unusual with a new home if the grading does not properly drain away from the house.
richhotrain scrambler81 My new home has a different kind of water problem, the water is coming from above the foundation. That could be a grading problem with the soil, not unusual with a new home if the grading does not properly drain away from the house. Rich
I'm pretty sure it is the house, turns out our builder was pretty shaky. There was a 3' brick veneer across the front of the house, and they had completely botched the transition from the brick to the siding. After being denied by the insurance company and the home owners warranty, and laughed at by the builder, I was quoted 16K to fix it. Needless to say, I really felt like hurting people by then. My buddy and I cut the bricks off the front, then replaced the rimboard and sheathing that had rotted away. Not being a mason, we extended the siding all the way down and lived without the brick. All told, about $400.00.
Now, I think the problem is my front porch, I just have to spend the time to track it down. The worst part to me is that I have to tear out my basement ceiling again.
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This is the reason I try to do everything myself. Including building my own home when I lived in Fla. It is so hard to find competent people to do anything. Most are hit and run. If I do find someone who does a good job I use them for as long as I can contact them. I would have to say only about 25% of ANY service I have used has been satisfactory, sad but true.
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