Your trademark is being used to make millions. And you get nothing CTT!

[Anonymous]

I like that Alan maybe the UP didn't know about the toy trains using their logo for 50 years try 100yrs highly unlikely that is the case they may say so but not likely.And as I stated in my earlier post The UP did not file until just after they publicly announced that they basically were losing their buts be cause of parked trains,no crews,and having to ship untold amounts of cargo by truck cross country because they failed to provide enough equipment and crews to properly provide service for the more than projected increase in demand of the shipping industry.And if you beleive that they simply didn't know that toy train manufacturers were using their logo for more then 50yrs then you need to get your head out of the law books more often and get some fresh air.There is more to this story then meets the eye if you do as I've done and go back and read all the stories about this situation there is a big chunk missing from both sides.I am not saying that the UP should not expect to get royalties from the use of its name and trademark logo but the fact is why wait more then 50yrs to do it.I'm sorry but no company as large as UP which porbably has a team of lawyers dedicated to them alone would wait 50+yrs that would have to be one heck of a stone wall.I'll laugh my but off if Lionel takes it all the way to court and whips out some letter signed by a former President/CEO of UP from about 50 or 60 yrs ago stating that the Lionel corporation maynot be held liable for trademark infringment for 100 yrs or somthing to that effect.That would be the way I would play it if the ball was in my court just to show the UP which has a strong reputation for stomping out the little guy that other people can play hardball too.And while it doesn't bother me personally it might others to where you receive a little flamage Alan the bit about those who dont create much that is sellable and being jealous of those who do was a little uncalled for.As a matter of fact according to the information I obtained in the paralegal classes I helped my sister study for and some of the reading I've done of some of the laws in my home state I do believe that is considered something along the lines of defimation of character correct me if I'm wrong Alan but that would give me grounds to file a lawsuit against you because I may have not created something sellable.Off the record of corse.Before this gets completely out of hand I am only expressing my opinion.And Alan I hope you did not take any of my comments to heart I didn't post to make anyone mad just to voice my opinion.And as for my help in this fight I will not buy any repeat any UP trademarked equipment for my road when and if UPRR wins this lawsuit.

[brianel027]

I find all this interesting, but at the same time don't give a rat's hind quarters over it. I have nothing against the UP. It's not at all one of my favorite lines, but I do nonetheless enjoy seeing a UP unit when one rolls though this area, as they once in a while do.

What really gets my goat is that the once in a while when Lionel decides to actually make product in a road name I want and in a price range I could afford, they sabotage the product so I can't buy it. They then follow up with the same item in UP done exactly the way it should have been done before, just in the WRONG road name.

Examples: in 1996 I believe, Lionel issued a Jersey Central NW2. I was drooling when I first saw the catalog illustration, until I read the features... single motored unit. I then saw the engine at a shop. It was hard to say that the shell was even painted. What was obvious is that the CNJ red logo in the white field was a different shade of red paint than the body itself.
The following year, Lionel issued a UP NW2 with a matching calf unit. Beautiful looking units, obviously painted and with DUAL motors. WHY?? They had to cost more to produce than the CNJ units... just the paint masks alone!! Yet to add insult to injury, Lionel makes the product I want in the wrong road name. Fortunately for me, Microscale issued the CNJ coast guard scheme decals, so I made my own unit using a K-Line S-2 unit. Of course, the K-Line S-2 outpulls the single motored Lionel unit by a long shot... no contest. The single motored Lionel unit barely makes it up a trestle grade with a train in tow. My redone K-Line unit doesn't even struggle to do the same exact thing.

And I've mentioned before the Conrail U36B from 2 years ago. Again, same senario. Lionel finally makes an item that I truely wanted and was a must have, until I noticed the unit only had one motored truck. Beautiful looking unit too. The reason I like the Lionel 14-inch U36B is that is has the "look and feel" of a more modern diesel. It's length makes 027 curves. The loco walkway is part of the frame, not the shell, so that I can sand down some of the height of the shell, which actually makes the unit look much much better, especially on an 027 layout. And furthermore, with the CR unit, the lettering was all done high enough, so that I knew I could take down the shell height without repainting the whole unit. The shell has been changed now so that the screws attach from beneath the frame, so there would be no hole to fill in on the nose.

Needless to say I REALLY wanted that engine. And still do when Lionel decides to reissue the exact same loco with TWO motors. (hopefully I have the money someday)

But Lionel added injury to insult by issuing the UP GP-20 the following year with 2 motors. Again, a much more complicated paint mask for the UP unit. Painted frame, grey molded truck sides... the UP unit must have been more expensive for Lionel to proudce, yet they added the extra motor to the UP unit not the Conrail one. WHY????

Two examples of how Lionel has made items I wanted, made them poorly so I couldn't buy them, and then followed them up with the UP items made the way I had wanted the others, at the same exact price, but only with the UP roadname.

Whether Lionel ever makes another UP roadname product, I could care less. I am sticking to my guns on this. I am never ever again buying another new Lionel engine until the Conrail U36B is reissued again with the exact same paint scheme and lettering size, with dual motors. Or unless Lionel will send me a free motorized truck with all related parts for the Conrail unit. And I already inquired and you can guess the answer.

[Anonymous]

Fleet621

If you feel wronged ... tough;

You voluntarily entered into this forum; this debate and by doing so you give up all claims of defamation be it slander or libel against others who also express an opinion in this forum that you may not like or feel has been stated against you. You need to re-read your sister’s para-legal books, you missed the requisite elements to claim the tort of defamation.

You can’t both express opinions about something and then claim foul when someone allegedly hammers you ( by the way I didn’t know it was you, and I did not direct my comments toward you until now, I was answering in general) the way you are hammering UP!

Additionally “Fleet621” is not your name so at best only your handle has been defamed. That's an added defense in that “fleet621” could be anyone.

But we digress, Don’t buy UP if you like. It doesn’t change the merits of the matter one iota. UP has a right to its name and Lionel doesn’t just get to use it for FREE.

Alan

[Anonymous]

Alan I'm for the little guy always have been always will be.As you said the case could swing to either side if it goes to UP good for them it doesn't impress me but if the little guy wins awesome. I dont want your job in any way shape or form.Your are taking all this way to personel you need to back up and look at the big picture here because the veins in your neck are starting to swell.It is only my OPINION.And as for your comment directed at me I am only saying the same things that others are saying only in different words.And no I don't feel wronged not by UP or you but as you say I digress.You are right lionel doesn't have the right to use it for free.But the UPRR doesn't have to charge for it either they just want to make that almighty dollar.Look at the CSX deal no charge just let everyone know that our logo is trademarked.And I do beleive if we got a bunch of signitures on an electronic petition we might make a difference because its all of us that make or break a company like UP with our shipping.Just think if everyone stopped shipping anything with UP for one week they would lose millions.Dont forget that in the end it is you and I who pay that little 3% difference.And I will be d@#$$# if I'm going to pay the Union Pacific Rail road to run a 1/48th scale locomotive or cars on my own personnel railroad located right here in fleet621 USA I am not leasing their equipment.I beleive I have already bought and paid for that equipment and I am in no way shape or form competting for freight service with the UP.I am not bashing them for whats going on but I want to know why they waited until now to want a 3% royalty as far as I'm concerned if the UPRR went bankrupt rolled off the track and fell into the pacific ocean tomorrow it would not bother me heck they cant deliver my freight on time anyway.I am entitled to my opinion and I will continue to voice it like it says in the constitution look it up if you have any of them left when you finish burning all the books!

[Anonymous]

Fleet

Like I said in the other thread post; If you don’t like what UP is doing don’t hide your head in the ballast.
go out and buy a lot of UP voting stock and vote these so-called evil directors at UP out of office.

There are the ones who started the lawsuit anyway. And you are right this could go either way; it depends on what UP knew about the toys; Are they barred by laches or estoppel; I simply don't know yet without looking at the discovery that UP obtains from Lionel and back;

If there is a memo from someone at UP circa 1945 saying to JLC :
"go ahead help us with our advertising and promote our line thru your trains..." then it is one story.

I suspect however that there is a memo from Lionel's Legal counsel or in-house counsel saying instead :
" UP and those other road names own the trademarks to their stuff, we better contact them" And no one at Lionel listened. Well that's a different story

However, this wont come out because it is a privileged Attorney-Client communication.


Alan

[3railguy]

In the good ole days, railroads were much more accommodating to the model railroading industry. They were flattered that their equipment was being modeled and went out of their way donating blueprints and paint chips of their equipment to model manufactures. We've grown accustom to this and now all of a sudden they want to charge like hell for it all.

Sure Lionel charges companies to use their logo but they use discretion. Hallmark Christmas tree ornaments for example, are almost direct competition with Lionel. On the other hand there was an owner of a shortline railroad in Blissfield MI who painted his real railroad GP-9 "Lionel Lines" the paint scheme is close to the Lionel 90th anniversary GP-9. Lionel was flattered and didn't charge a dime. I don't always agree with Lionel's name policy. You could not get me to wear a Lionel T shirt unless it was given to me for free. You would have to pay me to wear it at a train show. I do not pay money to endorse anyone whether it be Lionel or the Green Bay packers.

[Anonymous]

Whenever my Dad would buy a car, the first thing he would do is tear off the license plate frame and any other dealership advertising on the car. That included dealer placed stickers and chrome plates. Sure he made a mess of a new car, but he felt better. When I asked him why he did this, his reply was: "They didn't give me that good a deal to be advertising for them for free."

[phatkat64]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vitabile

Oh, and if Mike Wolf ends up owning Lionel, I think I'll switch to HO. At least DCC decoders are $12.50 a pop. I can probably get a DCC command station by selling everything O gauge I have acquired since last year.

Tony

There's not a point in that anymore. News from the HO front. Lionel's now making $700 HO locomotives, and one other company's followed suit. MTH is going to produce Protosounds for HO, jacking up the price of some other equipment. HO's heyday of being the only affordable scale are being threatened by the O scale manufacturers!

[Anonymous]

Phatkat64:

We'll see where the market goes. There's no gaurantee that Lionel's going to make any money off of the $700 locomotives, and they may not be in business for long. And if they don't fold (which I believe is likely), they may not be in HO for long, either.

So long as there are reasonably priced motive equipment out there, I'll make do.

I do not intend to buy anything MTH in any scale ever again. And if even HO gets to be too expensive, I'll just get out of the hobby. I can find lots of other uses for a 10x20 room

Tony

[phatkat64]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vitabile

Phatkat64:

...........So long as there are reasonably priced motive equipment out there, I'll make do.

Tony

Tony, that's what I'm counting(betting) on....

I'm sure I'm not the only one who waited 30 years to build his dream layout, only to find out that it has become cost prohibitive. I could go HO, but chose O scale high-rail because of the realism with the action accessories - the play value!!!!

The world changed, I'm just trying to roll with the punches.