I just retired my first layout which was featured in O Gauge Railroading (but I like CTT mag too) and I have just built my second layout, and used MTH realtrax 054 switches. Of the ten on the layout, 5 will totally derail anything that runs through them in the facing point direction, apparently from some irregularities in the point blades. The other 5 cause the engines to lift up and slam down hard as they go through the switches.
I have also had problems with the spring arms slipping off the post, usually fresh out of the box. Just yesterday, another spring arm slipped after it had been on the layout for two weeks. I'm so glad I didn't decorate and ballast anything yet, because I would have to pull the track up to do a 5 second repair. I also have 5 042 switches in place that give me problems as well.
I have had an email exchange with MTH for awhile, but I don't think they realize how serious this problem is. They are willing to replace them with identical pieces, but I have learned my lesson after taking 3 of them back twice to the dealer and getting defective ones in exchange. These switches were purchased over a 6 month period from 4 different dealers. I took my video camera and photographed my F7 diesels going askew and my steam engines hopping and derailing, with sparks flying, and made a DVD and sent it to MTH last Saturday (3/1) so they could see their product fail first hand. For some reason, they haven't received the DVD yet.. hmmm ... (I live about 60 miles away from them.)
I am mechanically inclined, and have watched these switches operate over and over. The action is solid, I am powering them with the 14 volt tap from the Z-4000, yet they can't seem to stay together when engines pass through. I am so frustrated right now I feel like just taking it all down and forgetting about model railroading. I am being very patient with MTH, but it is wearing thin. I am giving them every opportunity to resolve this issue.
Anyhow, has anyone had problems with these switches, because MTH has given me the impression that I am the only one who has experienced these malfunctions. I have spent over $1300 in track, and I can't run my trains. I would appreciate any comments.
Thanks.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
2 of my 5 switches will derail my F3. My speeder won't pass through some of the better operating 0-54 switches. I didn't even think that I had an option to get them fixed. Maybe I still don't. My problem looks like the trucks simply stop turning around the curve as the train crosses the plastic crossover part of the switch. The front wheels on my 2-8-0 track ok, mainly because the front wheels can turn more freely. It's not a great product, but I'm too deep into it now.
Wes
ChiefEagles wrote: Welcome to Mikey's sorry switches....Roughness, I've taken a hammer to some to level out the center rail portion as it stuck up so high.
Sad state of affairs when a design and production snafu like this switch issue gets out into the market and then the problem persists for such a period of time. Makes you wonder how much testing was done on these.
Loved the hammer technique. How big of a hammer?
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
It would probably sink them...
Next time you go to the LHS, look at the back of the box of the 0-54 switches. On the example track diagrams, there is a typo in the track demensions. If I noticed it, it must be pretty obvious...just more proof that the QA isn't up to snuff on these switches. It would be one thing if they were $40, but they were more like $80.
Wes Whitmore wrote: It would probably sink them......just more proof that the QA isn't up to snuff on these switches. It would be one thing if they were $40, but they were more like $80.Wes
...just more proof that the QA isn't up to snuff on these switches. It would be one thing if they were $40, but they were more like $80.
Probably retooling would as well.
RockIsland52 wrote: ChiefEagles wrote: Welcome to Mikey's sorry switches....Roughness, I've taken a hammer to some to level out the center rail portion as it stuck up so high. Sad state of affairs when a design and production snafu like this switch issue gets out into the market and then the problem persists for such a period of time. Makes you wonder how much testing was done on these. Loved the hammer technique. How big of a hammer?Jack
Small tack hammer. Tap the high "joints" lightly until they are level with the plastic. He is not joking. "Roughess" switches I've ever seen. Lionel's manual 027's are smoother. You'd think they would be the cheapest built.
No such problems with FasTrack! A wonderful track system! Those in the know use it because it's so reliable. I think it looks better too!
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
mdmikey wrote: Anyhow, has anyone had problems with these switches, because MTH has given me the impression that I am the only one who has experienced these malfunctions. I have spent over $1300 in track, and I can't run my trains. I would appreciate any comments. Thanks.
MD....My layout was built before Fastrack or Atlas Track were manufactured. The first Realtrax switches and track were excellent. When I started my expansion, I noticed how much harder it was to put the track together and I found missing spring arms. My expansion included several new switches. I have one that I had to completely dis-assemble.
Friends of the Chief even discussed the problem with MTH rep at York and he stared at them like they had no idea what they were talking about.
I'm glad that my expansion is done and I would not use Realtrax again. I would look at Atlas or Gargraves with Ross Switches.
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
Buckeye Riveter wrote: mdmikey wrote: Anyhow, has anyone had problems with these switches, because MTH has given me the impression that I am the only one who has experienced these malfunctions. I have spent over $1300 in track, and I can't run my trains. I would appreciate any comments. Thanks.MD....My layout was built before Fastrack or Atlas Track were manufactured. The first Realtrax switches and track were excellent. When I started my expansion, I noticed how much harder it was to put the track together and I found missing spring arms. My expansion included several new switches. I have one that I had to completely dis-assemble.Friends of the Chief even discussed the problem with MTH rep at York and he stared at them like they had no idea what they were talking about. I'm glad that my expansion is done and I would not use Realtrax again. I would look at Atlas or Gargraves with Ross Switches.
I am sorry to say that I have the same problems with my O31 realtrax switches. My entire Postwar Steam collection can not be run through these switches without derailments. And only some of my postwar deisels will go through them. My modern stuff seems to like the switches a bit more.
Thankfully, I have 2 loops on my layout. One is realtrax and one is fastrack. I have several fastrack switches as well, and ALL locos pass through...no problems. Its come to a point where I know exactly which locos I can run on which loop.
Thanks for all the comments everyone!
Guess the switch gremlin doesn't live at just my house after all.
I was in touch with MTH today, and tomorrow I am going there to personally return the switches and talk to the customer service guy. I thought that was a nice gesture to offer to meet me there, and we will see what the meeting produces.
Just wanted everyone to know that I am taking your comments with me. Copied excerpts (no names included) so they could get a taste of how their customers feel about their track. Other than the cold solder joint problem on the wireless drawbar of the RF & P 2-8-4, I have had pretty good luck with their engines. I like the detail and DCS, although it has its quirks at times.
I will be at TCA show in York this year. Paid for the O Gauge Railroading tour of MTH (if they'll let me in after this) and Tony Lash's layout. The commemorative MTH/OGRR boxcar has the magazine cover on it that featured my layout. Maybe they'll scrape it off before handing them out.
Gotta go unwire and box up some nasty switches. Thanks again everyone.
Jumijo wrote: No such problems with FasTrack! A wonderful track system! Those in the know use it because it's so reliable. I think it looks better too!
Hello Jumijo:
You really know how to make a guy feel better.
Regards,
John
mdmikey wrote: Just wanted everyone to know that I am taking your comments with me. Copied excerpts (no names included) so they could get a taste of how their customers feel about their track. Other than the cold solder joint problem on the wireless drawbar of the RF & P 2-8-4, I have had pretty good luck with their engines. I like the detail and DCS, although it has its quirks at times.
MD Mikey....You make sure you tell them that due to their poor product, some of us our watching and recording anything that we feel could be evidence of a fire hazard with these switches. The Consumer Product Commission loves to investigate "toy" companies whose product is supposed to be suitable for an eight year old.
I just got another 0-42 RH MTH realtrax switch that has problems right out of the box. The switch will move from straight to turn and back just fine, but the moving rails stick up too high against the permanent rail when the switch is switched to the straight position, causing a derail. It doesn't tuck under the permanent rail like it should...QA at it's finest. You can see it from across the layout...Wes
I'm going to overlook Jim's obvious prod to get me out of my corner, put on my gloves and start swinging in the "027 vs. FasTrack" bout.
But seriously Wes, I think these sorts of design and quality problems cut across the board with a wide swath and are not limited to just one company. From my operating perspective, here's a couple of good examples:
The Industrial Rail cars. These cars are very nicely decorated and proportioned and are openly advertised as being 027 compatible. These cars so have some good elements, like the way the body attaches to the frame on the box cars.
Yet the coupler arms on all these cars are a 1/4 inch longer than that of any other similar type of car I own. Unlike the Lionel cars like the 027 passenger cars and the bay window cabooses that have longer coupler arms that swivel independently of the truck, the IR ones don't. That extra length on the coupler arm, along with the design of the coupler knuckle and the open space within the closed coupler causes these cars to DERAIL constantly on 027 curves where there is an "S" or going through switches into curves.
I don't have this problem on anything else except for the Industrial Rail cars... not postwar, MPC, LTI or LLC Lionel, MDK K-Line, Weaver (with plastic trucks no less) or MTH Railking or Rugged Rails. I've been ditching the IR trucks and replacing them with either Lionel, K-Line or Korean-made copies the problems immediately stop when I replace the trucks. Even plastic MPC trucks work better than the better looking IR trucks.
This is obviously a problem of poor engineering/design without adequate testing for the intented market.
The RMT BEEP. I've been defending the introduction of this product long before I even owned one. I still believe there is a strong untapped market for this sort of product, and there's room for lots more. BUT they NEED to be MADE RIGHT! Again, the BEEP is advertised as being an 027 operational engine. (If I had the money, I'd start a new company even now, because I believe I absolutely would be successful, no question about it. Because I understand the hobby and the products!)
When I finally got a BEEP, I quickly discovered it IS NOT an 027 friendly loco as far as running through switches goes. While the BEEP has a short wheelbase, so do many other Lionel locos such as the small plastic MPC steamers, the MPC dockside steamers, and the Lionel Industrial Switcher. Those all run fine for me with no trouble.
The problem with the BEEP is the sprung long-arm center rail pick-ups. On first glance, they appear to be of far better quality than the before mentioned Lionel locos. But the short distance between the dual pickups along with the long arm causes the BEEP to short out constantly when running on a complicated 027 layout with switches. Again, I have this problem with no other loco other than the BEEP. And more than anyone, I would love to RAVE about how the BEEP is the best locomotive ever made. As it is, it is far from it.
The BEEP is a fine inexpensive loco for loop layout running with minimal passing through 027 switches - and only going straight through them. On the other hand, the BUDDY which shares a pick-up design closer to the above mentioned Lionel locos, runs just fine. I've rebuilt one BEEP using a K-Line motor truck to replace the entire RMT assembly and I'm now experimenting with mounting a BEEP body onto a Lionel Industrial Switcher chassis. Kinda sad, that I have to go through all this extra work to finally get the loco to work the way it should have in the first place.
I think many of the train companies today suffer from trying to be too much for too many people. Or from the logistical problems from having engineering done overseas. Whether they fail to do proper engineering, or just do not understand the intended usage of the products that they are making, I think the problems for these products go well beyond the apsect of just quality control.
I re-entered the hobby as a solid modern traditional 027 operator. But I have really come to respect the quality, design, creativity, and ingenuity of the postwar Lionel products and even more-so with the original MARX trains. There are exceptions of couse, from mostly profit considerations. I look at the postwar Lionel Alco FA, and I really respect how they got the feel and look of the real thing, while simplifying it and shrinking it down to work on 027 track. Even the MPC small plastic steamers... yeah they are cheap, but easily improved. But the shells on those steamers have a surprising amount of cast in detail for a cheap low market steamer. When I'm done with them, they pull as good as any postwar engine I own. And take a look at the original MARX RDC car... the trucks appear to have 3 axles but only have 2. The truck sides are molded to give the appearance of 3. MARX stuff was just brilliant and totally reliable for all the cost cutting moves.
The train companies need some guys like me and others working for them (with an honorable salary that isn't poverty or an insult), who really have an understanding of the hobby and the products, because we actually operate and use them!!!
brianel, Agent 027
"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."
Wes Whitmore wrote: I just got another 0-42 RH MTH realtrax switch that has problems right out of the box. The switch will move from straight to turn and back just fine, but the moving rails stick up too high against the permanent rail when the switch is switched to the straight position, causing a derail. It doesn't tuck under the permanent rail like it should...QA at it's finest. You can see it from across the layout...Wes
Wes....Bring it over to Buckeye Train Repair in Roger's Corners and it will get fixed.
It's also easier to get apart.
Seriously, though, there is one thing that I've observed - tinplate Marx trains will not go through modern switches, not even the tubular ones. I have several of these trains and they either derail or do the "jump" thing that was described earlier. I think it's because of the guard rails in the center of these new switches. The tinplate Marx trains have a sligthly larger wheel on their powered trucks, so they can't get through the switches. If you're running modern trains, though, I don't see why they would be jumping the switches unless there was a major problem. Hopfully you'll get things worked out.
IMO FasTrack is the better bet for roadbed track.
I don't have any MTH track or switches; and after reading through this thread I never will.
I was frustrated when I added some 100radius Gargraves switches to my all postwar lionel layout and found that my prewar lionel would derail on them. Early postwar with sliding shoes didn't like them either.
So from the thread I conclude that Lionel Fastrack is a viable option. Personal testing in my local shop suggests that Atlas "O" is also an option for me.
I am astounded that there is product on the market as bad as MTH
Runtime
runtime wrote: I don't have any MTH track or switches; and after reading through this thread I never will. I was frustrated when I added some 100radius Gargraves switches to my all postwar lionel layout and found that my prewar lionel would derail on them. Early postwar with sliding shoes didn't like them either. So from the thread I conclude that Lionel Fastrack is a viable option. Personal testing in my local shop suggests that Atlas "O" is also an option for me.I am astounded that there is product on the market as bad as MTHRuntime
Runtime.....As I said, if I had to do it over..............I have almost 200 feet of Realtrax on the layout and if I do a rebuild I would not consider using it again. Too many talented people have had trouble with the "new" runs of Realtrax in different parts of the country. I have spent hours getting one switch to work properly.
BTW, when several of us started our layouts years ago, we did not have the choice of Fastrack or Atlas. I believe both systems are less then ten years old. I don't remember Fastrack being in the 2000 Lionel catalog.
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