Electric locomotives in the U.S.

[wjstix]

Why is modeling catenary systems so expensive? My Lionel EP-5 and MTH GG-1 in
O gauge are designed to run with the overhead system. Can anyone help out on this
idea?

Installing real overhead catenary on the prototype is very expensive. I would think it wouldn't be too expensive to build it on a model system. (Remember this forum is for Classic REAL Trains, Classic TOY Trains forum is down the hall and to the left.)

In 1913 the Dan Patch Line (the Minneapolis St.Paul Rochester and Dubuque Electric Traction Co., thank you very much) went to GE / Ingersoll Rand and asked about buying electric boxcab locomotives. However they pointed out they had a problem - they could buy locomotives, or hang overhead wire, but couldn't afford to do both!! GE et al suggested putting oil-burning electric generators in the boxcabs...'hey, you can use this to move stuff around while you're building the overhead wire'.

Turns out it worked so well they never did string any wire. Technically they weren't "Diesels" because they burned oil not diesel fuel, but otherwise they were the first blip on the radar screen of the coming diesel revolution. 

Several iron mining companies in northern MN used electric locomotives in the mines, some with a trolley pole angled off to one side of the engine (they couldn't put the wire right over the track or it would interfere with the steam shovels loading ore into the cars) or a REALLY long extension cord!!

[daveklepper]

I think the Virginian road-switcher relectrics looked great in the New Haven paint.  One cosmetically restored is at a Connecticut museum.

[oldline1]

In my opinion the electrification on the Virginian was the most successful. It permitted the Virginian to greatly increase the capacity of their single track main while at the same time reducing operating costs significantly. Unfortunately when N&W bought them out the Virginian main line was converted to single direction, which doomed the juice jacks.

Probably right with this! The VGN (and I'm told GN) balanced trains on the electric lines. A train would be set to leave a terminal while another was going down grade using regenerative braking (the electric locos form of dynamic braking) to feed power back into the wires. I was told by an old VGN maintenance man I knew that the power of the downgrade train was equal to that used by the starting train which greatly saved fuel at the powerplant. The Virginian electrification was a great success and the main reason the N&W dropped the juice when they bought the VGN was because the power generating plant at Glen Lyn was in need of updating and overhaul and the cost was more than they wanted to spend when diesels had much more going for them as far as cost, maintenance and utilization. Electrics could only go where they had wires...........diesels or steam still had to do the switching. N&W was really into having a fleet of locos that could do any job they wanted rather than having any specialized engines.

Interesting note here is the N&W shut down their own electrified section when they opened the New Elkhorn Tunnel in 1950. Steam replaced the electrics! The new tunnel was built on a lesser grade and had better ventillation equipment allowing steam to continue through where they had to change over to electrics before. These 2 power changes ate up a lot of time and money. The original N&W electrics were getting very old and the Bluestone powerplant was aging as well.

What a shame the N&W didn't save one of the beautiful Virginian EL-2 electric locos!

Roger

Roger

[spikejones52002]

There are ten thousand reason electric line died.

One, the power has to generated.

TWO, the power has to be distrubited.

Three, They need a termendious amount of power that does not get to other uses.

Four, if there is going to be a track, there has to be a wire.

Five, if something happens to that feed wire. It affects all all tracks around it.

Six, There is a lot more to maintain.

Seven, Weather effects are exponential.

Eight, the amount of load that can be placed on a power feed.

Nine, exhust coming out of a smoke stack on an engine or chimmey is pollution.

[nokia3310]

What rairloads on the Eastren Coast/North-East Coridor ar electrified?

There are any electrified railroads in California? 

[JonathanS]

What rairloads on the Eastren Coast/North-East Coridor ar electrified?

Of course you have Amtrak electrified from Boston to Washington and from Philadelphia to Harrisburg.

Conneticut DOT runs electrified Commuters on the former New Haven Main.  There was talk of re-electrifying a former New Haven Branch, has this happened?

Then there are many Long Island electrified lines.  Anyone care to list them?

Metro North is electrified from Grand Central Terminal North to Croton on Hudson.  What other lines does Metro North have electrified?

NJDOT is electrified on the New York and Long Branch.  Also many of the former DL&W commuter lines are electrified.  Can anyone fill in the list of these?  Of course the former PRR main line is filled with NJDOT electric commuter trains.  And I cannot forget the electrified Princeton "dinky" with runs a shuttle from Princeton to Princeton Junction.

I can do better with the SEPTA system around Philadelphia.  These are all electrified.  The R1 goes to the airport and to Glenside, R2 goes to Wilmington Deleware and to Warminster, R3 goes to West Trenton  and to Elwyn, R5 goes to Downingtown and to Doylestown, R7 goes to Chestnut Hill East and Trenton, R8 goes to Chestnut Hill West and Fox Chase.  Because of the tunnel connecting the former Reading Lines with the former Pennsylvania lines one end of the route is on the Reading side and the other on the PRR side for each of these.  The upper level of 30th street station is the "center point" of operation.  You might also count the R100 from 69th street terminal to Norristown.  While it is usually considered light rail it is contructed to heavy rail standards.

Maryland DOT operates electrified commuter trains on the Ex PRR out of Washington.

Until very recently American Electric Power ran two E50 locomotives in Southeastern Ohio supplying coal to a power plant.  These were nearly identical to the PRR/PC/Conrail E44 and E44a locomotives.  But that operation has ended.

What have I missed?

 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Metro-North out of GCT is third-rail north to Croton-Harmon on the Hudson Line and to Brewster on the Harlem Line.

NJTransit has two sets of electrifications.  On the ex-PRR, they run to Trenton on the Corridor and also on the New York & Long Branch, I'm not sure where the catenary ends now.  On the ex-DL&W out of Hoboken, they run on the Morris & Essex to Dover and Summit and a branch to Montclair.  There is also Midtown Direct service on the Morris & Essex into Penn Station.

Out of Chicago, the former IC lines run to University Park on the main line with branches to South Chicago and Blue Island.  The South Shore runs over the IC to 115th Street and then on its own line to South Bend Regional Airport.

[daveklepper]

I believe the New York and Long Branch NJT electrification now stops at Long Branch, with diesel shuttles from their to Bay Head Junction, the end of the line.   There are diesel through trains on summer weekends and during all rush hours, not changing engines and not running to New York, but terminating either at the old D&LW Hoboken terminal or at Newark.

LIRR?   Ronconkama on the Greenport Main Line, Babylon on the line to Montauk, blocking on the name of the end of electrification on the Port Jefferson Branch (about half way from Hicksville), no electrification on the Oyster Bay Branch, complete electrification on the Port Washington, Far Rockaway, Long Beach, and West Hempstead branches.

LIRR used to have electric freight service, using PRR DD-1's from the original PRR electrification.  Now all freight is operated by the private New York and Altantic with diesel switcher power.

[Big Wheel Driver]

Erik, Ihave driven Steam, Diesel Electric, Diesel Hydraulic and Electric locomotives. I preferred the electrics. They were much more responsive than the others. The locos we had were a c+c wheel arrangement. The motor groupings could be selected by the driver, they were series, series-pararell and pararell. there were three stages of field weakening for higher speed. They could really fly on passenger trains with rapid acceleration. On goods trains on heavy grades it was usual to pull them back into series-pararell to prevent overloading the motors. they would start heavy train on a 2 percent grade fairly easily by gently increasing the power until they moved, but you had to keep an eye on the ammeters. The dynamic brakes were far mor powerful than diesels and would hold without any trouble on down grades. Not everyone may agree with me, but Electrics were by far my favourite locos. 

Regards, Malcolm.     

[Deggesty]

Acually, the Harlem line of Metro North has third rail up to what used to be called Brewster North and is now called Southeast. Perhaps, when the electrification was being planned, the city fathers of Brewster did not want an engine terminal in their city. My wife and I went up to Wassaic and back last year to vist her cousin who lives in Salisbury, Connecticut. If we had been able to take the northbound train early enough in the afternoon and the southbound train early enough in the morning, we would not have had to change trains in Southeast for the engine used on those trips runs on the diesel north of Southeast and on the third rail south of Southeast. On the other schedules, there is a cross platform transfer from one train to the other. Incidentally, the locomotive used north of the third rail was an Amtrak Genesis engine.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The Virginian's electrification was in great shape at the time of the merger with N&W.  The power plant had recently been rebuilt and modernized and upgrading of motive power had been completed with the EL-2B's and EL-C's.  N&W instituted directional running on the two parallel main lines shortly after the merger which made each main line a one-way operation.  The electrification would have to be expanded or discontinued, and N&W chose to discontinue it.