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"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD! Locked

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Posted by trolleyboy on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 11:35 PM
Good evening gents, Leon my friend I think I could use a guiness this evening ( for the fibre )[:D]

Tom Your emails have been recieved and responded too [tup] interstinf choice for tomorrows Candian Railway piece, should make for an interesting bit of reading. I'll have to get my thinking cap omn for that one ![:0]

Doug Strombeker now ther is a blast from the past,interestingly enough they are still around in one form or another,we still get cartons marked as manufactured by strombecker at the store still, mostly plastic pails and shovels and small 1 and 2 dollar toys. They have off coarse been swallowed up by one of the big toy conglomerates but at least the historic name is still out there. I wonder when the train line was discontinued, I remember seeings the planes and car kits from them when I was going up but never a locomotive or piece of rolling stock. Shows what the difference several decades makes though, you can't send your design staff out into the train yard to measure and shetch anymore[:0]

BK Nice bit on the Lionel,[tup] I'm glad that both you and Tom didn't bother going too in deapth into all the recent who's sueing who crap, too many awfull things have occured on the main forums on those subjects,one sniff and all the AH's on both sides of that fence begin circling, we don't want them in here.[:(][;)].I'm guessing that you and your intended have got the paaths up and down the mountain committed to memory now, I swear that my car can drive to work with out my help anymore.

Lars Ah the bookends have indeed given us some good reading today [tup] I like the old nostalgic pieces AF and Lionel. UI've never owned or been into either but having run the museum's tables at the local trainshows, I see anf hear all the dickering over prices and paint jobs and all those other nit picky collector points on those fine classic toy trains. Intersting to watch for sure. Have fun wearing the green and marching on Fri. [tup] I'll set up an extra tap for the variousgreen ails and bitters here at the bar on Friday [tup] H & H have even sauid that they are dying all their hair green for the occation as well[:0][:I] Could be intersting.

CM3 Wow what a great memory. I remember doing a couple of Strombeckers plane kits frame on paper plan then wrapped with the tissue. I think i may have ruined a set of mom's sissors or two over the year making models myself. the trouble we get into eh >?

Great additional info on the Southern's steam loco's as well, a fine extra kick at teh southern's can great info [tup]


Rob
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:03 PM
Hello Gents!

I see Pete 'n Doug have made it in! First - Doug my apologies - I corrected my AM Post to reflect YOUR participation in our "theme!"[#oops]

Pete Glad to have you back with us! I know how connectivity problems can really turn what should be a "fun" experienced into sheer exasperaton. This time last year was when I got away from dial-up and went to high speed from my cable company. What a difference. Also added wireless capability for my laptop, which now enables my wife to be online at the PC while I'm doing this - at the same time. Worth it, fer sure, fer sure![tup] Your situation is about to take a turn for the better![tup]

Doug Interesting Pix! [tup] Lousy joke1[tdn] I think you're spoiling Coal Scuttle with those Michigan quarters - "she" thinks they are dessert![swg] Thanx![tup]

Pete Remind me to tell ya about "the tenner" one of these days (daze).
Thanx for the round AND $$$$ for Coal Scuttle!

Later![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 5:52 PM
Good evening Tom and gents! I'll have the usually bottomless draught please, and here's plenty of Michigan quarters for the coal scuttle. As had already been noted, Al seems to have all twenty fingers going on that Panama Limited IC streamliner. Nifty train names to be sure! Great Lionel train info Mr. BK, and Nice AF pic and info from Lars. Im curious CM3, did any of your trains look like this?

A realistic model of the Baldwin-built “Pioneer,” first C.&N.W. engine


The Hudson type is quite a giant beside her predecessor of a century ago


A few of the Strombeck-Beacker wooden models of famous engines and trains. How many can you name?


[:I] A traveling salesman rings the doorbell, and 10-year-old Little Johnny answers, holding a beer and smoking a fat cigar. The salesman says, “Young man, is your mother home?”
Little Johnny taps his ash on the carpet and says, “What the hell do you think?” [:I]
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Posted by pwolfe on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 4:50 PM
Hi Tom and all.

A large Bathams and most certainly a round for the great Southern Day yesterday.

Managed to get the last two pages although the puter is terribly slow hopefully this will change Friday, even got the photos and the maps.I think it has been suffering from a hangover from Monday,s great bash.

Great to see AL back to full form. The Panama Limited sure had some interesting car names.

CM3 Many thanks for the train details and the Southern steam details. May I say how much I enjoyed the post. I could almost smell the rain on the railroad. Marvellous.

Many thanks for the steam loco photos BK and LARS. The Southern engines were certainly handsome machines and the green livery seem to suit them very well. I think the tender design seem to suit and complement the locos which is not always the case. Liked the list of the Named Trains as well.

ROB Good list of the Southern Steam locos.

DOUG Two very heartwarming Southern stories from the Railroad mag. and the boxcar mystery earlier. A great start to Pikes day with the Mr Strombeck history a forerunner of the very popular plastic kits that were more popular in the UK.

Thanks BK and LARS for the Lionel And American Flyer info.

May I say HI to COMETECH DENNIS.

TOM An excellent Theme day yesterday. I give it four thumbs up but I dare not use the Smilie List to put them on the screen as I tried earlier and it got stuck.
We went to Pats Place last night and on the train, being sorted for the local factories,. was a very faded boxcar with Southern markings I guess the boxcar had not seen a coat of paint for many years.

The Logos are great many thanks for posting them again.

Looking forward to the Hudson Bay tomorrow. The great thing about the forum is unlike TV if there is a problem with the equipment the postings are still there whereas if you miss the TV programme thats it.

I'll popin again soon if I can meanwhile have some a twenty to re-stock the Coal- Scuttle. PETE.
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 3:11 PM
G'day Gents!

Nice work from our bookends! [swg] Amazing - have you guys checked your individual "numbers count"[?] You're so close that one would think you are joined at the hip![swg]

Really liked that AF Pix - brought back some memories. Not so much of that particular loco, but of those "white walls" on the drivers. The trains of my youth - 40s & early 50s looked so "cool" with them. Only AF did it that way.

I too have some plans for this weekend and it begins for me on Friday as well. I'll be making myself scarce from about 10 AM on . . . so, hopefully there will be a few left to keep things going. But, this time I'm not asking for help - just going to let it go and see what happens over the weekend. Not even sure that I'm going to post Pix this Sunday - haven't made up my mind yet. One thing I'm not going to do is babysit this Thread or the other one. Nope.

As a kid my Boy Scout Troop used to march in all of the NYC major parades, including St. Pat's Day! I'm one quarter Irish (mother's mother was from County Cork, I believe - father from Germany). Anyway, that was one big day in NYC and long before I recognized that so many simply use the occasion to get themselves blitzed, it really was a fun time. So, Lars wear your best Norwegian attire, and let 'em have it![swg]

Getting back to the toy trains for a bit, I noticed that Lionel is being sued again by MTH. Without getting into it here, there's lotsa ongoing diatribes and stuff on the other Forums for those interested.

Okay, Gents - thanx again for the Posts and taking the time to swing by. Also noticed that you both Posted on "my other thread," so a double THANX is in order![tup][tup]

BK Pehaps you should consider an incline railway for that trip up 'n down the mountainside!<grin>


Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by LoveDomes on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:28 PM
Hello Tom and Gents at the bar!

Hope all is well with everyone. Things around here have stabilzed and appear to be heading back to normal. Tomorrow is the installation for our dehumidifier/air purifier unit that will be going into the basement. Really looking foward to some positive results.

Before I totally forget, a Lodge I belong to is marching in this year's St. Paddy's Day Parade in Manhattan. It's a traditional thing, even though the overwhelming majority of us are not Irish. What the heck - we can be, for one day, huh[?][swg] So, I will be unavailable for most of the day around here. I'll do my best to check in before heading over for the 'doings.'

Not to be outdone by my bookend, BK, I too have something from Wikipedia for Pike Perspective's Day! But before I get into it, let me say that yesterday's outpouring was terrific. I think you all made Tom feel a lot better than perhaps he had been. Good job, guys and let's try to remember that it takes more than just one or two to keep this wonderful idea alive and "up" on the forum.[tup[

How about one of those great looking hero sandwiches[?] Ya know, the same-o thing I always order![swg] A pitcher of brew - make it Schaefer with a frostly mug. [yeah]

Now, to the matter at hand:

QUOTE: American Flyer


This American Flyer S gauge 4-4-2 steam locomotive and tender dates from 1960

American Flyer was a popular brand of toy train and model railroad in the United States in the middle part of the 20th century.

The Chicago Era, 1907-1938

Although best remembered for the S gauge trains of the 1950s that it made as a division of the A. C. Gilbert Company, American Flyer was initially an independent company whose origins date back nearly a half century earlier. Chicago, Illinois-based toymaker William Frederick Hafner developed a clockwork motor for toy cars in 1901 while working for a company called Toy Auto Company. According to the recollections of William Hafner's son, John, he had developed a clockwork train running on O gauge track by 1905.

Hafner's friend, William Ogden Coleman, gained control of the Edmonds-Metzel Hardware Company, a struggling hardware manufacturer in Chicago, in 1906 or 1907. Hafner and Coleman began producing toy trains using Edmonds-Metzel's excess manufacturing capability after Hafner was able to secure $15,000 worth of orders. By 1907, two American retailers, G. Sommers & Co. and Montgomery Ward, were selling Edmonds-Metzel trains. In 1908, Edmonds-Metzel adopted the American Flyer brand name for the trains, and by 1910, Edmonds-Metzel was out of the hardware business and changed its name to American Flyer Manufacturing Company.

Initially American Flyer -- aka "Chicago Flyer" -- was something of a budget brand, undercutting the prices of Ives, which was at the time the market leader. The trains proved popular, and American Flyer was soon expanding its product line. However, the company's rapid growth led to strains in the relationship between Hafner and Coleman.

In 1913, Hafner left the company. Believing he would be given a significant portion of the company if the trains proved successful, Coleman refused when Hafner asked to exercise this option. Hafner started the Hafner Manufacturing Company, which sold a line of trains called Overland Flyer. Sommers immediately stopped carrying the American Flyer trains in favor of Hafner's brand. Initially, the Hafner and American Flyer product lines were very similar, suggesting they may have been built using the same tooling. This suggests the possibility of the two companies continuing to collaborate. Hafner's business surivived as a manufacturer of clockwork trains until 1951, when he sold his business to All Metal Products Company.

American Flyer's business grew during World War I, which locked out German manufacturers, which had dominated the U.S. toy train market to that point. During this time, American Flyer also introduced bicycle and motorcycle toys, segmented its market by creating both a low-priced and a high-priced line, and began to depart from its earlier designs by William Hafner.

In 1918, American Flyer introduced its first electric train, an O gauge model that was simply a windup model with an electric motor in place of the clockwork motor. This was a common practice at the time. The same year, William Coleman died and his son, William Ogden Coleman, Jr., took over the company.

In 1925, American Flyer began offering Wide gauge electric trains at a premium price, attempting to compete with Lionel Corporation at the high end of the market. Like most of its competition, American Flyer did well in the 1920s, selling more than half a million trains in its best years, but suffered in the Great Depression, during which the company's focus shifted back to the more economical O gauge trains.

In 1928, American Flyer's competitor Ives went bankrupt. American Flyer and Lionel jointly purchased and operated Ives until 1930, when American Flyer sold its share to Lionel. During this time of joint operation, American Flyer supplied Ives with car bodies and other parts.

During the early 1930s, American Flyer struggled under increased competition, especially at the low end of the market. In 1931, Flyer announced it would not produce an electric train set to sell for less than $4 like its competition had. However, within three months, it relented and released a train without transformer that sold for $3.95, and in 1932, it released a set with transformer that retailed for $3.50. Sales increased, but the company was not profitable. Expansion into other toy arenas also failed.
[edit]

A. C. Gilbert Company, 1938-1966

In 1938, W.O. Coleman sold American (Chicago) Flyer to Alfred Carlton Gilbert, a former Olympic pole vaulter who first made a name for himself in the toy industry earlier in the century when he created and manufactured Mysto Magic sets for youthful magicians. A few years later, his A. C. Gilbert Company also became the makers of Erector Set construction toys. The two toy magnates were just finishing shooting on Gilbert's game reserve in New Haven when Gilbert casually mentioned he was thinking about manufacturing toy trains. Instead, Coleman said he'd give his struggling American Flyer Co. to Gilbert in return for a share of the profits. Gilbert quickly agreed.

Gilbert soon moved the company from Chicago to New Haven, Connecticut, and re-designed the product line. He pioneereed the 3/16" to one foot (S-scale) variant of O gauge in 1939, in which the locomotive and car bodies are scaled to 1:64 scale, making them approximately 25% smaller than the standard 1:48 for O gauge while still running on the same type of three-rail track. This allowed the S-scale trains to navigate tighter 27-inch curves that would cause a conventional O gauge train to derail or jump the track. While this resulted in curves that were much tighter than those that appear in the real world and O27 gauge train cars that appeared "stubby" in length, it allowed more track in a smaller space.

By 1941, Gilbert had discontinued the earlier designs and advertised his new American Flyer products as "Every train 3/16" scale from front end to rear end." Some boxes were labeled "3/16 scale" and others labeled "Tru-Scale." As most prior trains from American Flyer and other manufacturers paid little attention to scale (proportional size mirroring the prototype), this new wrinkle made Gilbert American Flyer distinctive, as his cars at 1:64 were much closer to the prototypes on real railroads than the comparatively stubby 1:48 scale rolling stock that ran on O27 track.

At the same time, Gilbert also released a line of HO scale trains.

In 1946, after World War II, Gilbert discontinued manufacturing three-rail O gauge trains entirely in favor of the slightly (25%) smaller and more realistic S gauge and in the process eliminated the most unrealistic aspect of toy trains -- the center rail. His 3/16" American Flyer used two-rail track sized closer to 1:64 scale, or about seven-eighths inches between rails.

In order to further differentiate his product line from that of Lionel, Gilbert employed a bullet-shaped (link) coupler, but within a few years (1952), a newer, more realistic knuckle coupler design appeared. Flyer played up its improved realism and attention to details, with two-rail track and prototypical couplers, with Gilbert himself saying the design was inspired by his son's dissatisfaction with other toy trains available on the market. "Kids want realism," he said. His trains, which were closely proportioned to their prototypes, also had more detail elements than most O gauge competitors.

Although popular, American Flyer was always the No.2 brand to Lionel in terms of market share at the high end of the market. With Marx and a handful of other brands relegated to the low end of the market, Lionel and American Flyer shared premium status. A rivalry emerged between both companies' fans that continues today.

Like Lionel, Gilbert was caught off guard by the popularity of HO scale trains that offered better realism at a lower price than its American Flyer S gauge products. But the true reason for the demise of the toy train industry was the changing interests of American youth. A new technology called television was taking the place of many traditional hobbies, and the toy market was subject to the success of unpredictable overnight fads like the Hula-Hoop and yo-yo. Kids were also eschewing their Lionel and American Flyer trains in favor of remote-control slot car racing sets.

Finally, the national phenomena of the discount store craze was ravaging toy train companies' traditional distrubution network -- mom-and-pop hobby shops -- and sending them into financial oblivion. The discount stores demanded train sets at a low wholesale price and refused to offer the personal attention and repair services of the hobby shop. In order to get product on the shelves of discounters, toy train manufacturers cheapened their lines to get the price point down on sets -- which exacerbated the downward economic spiral. Longtime train collectors and hobbyists were offended at this newer production, dismissing the new products as "cheap junk," an accurate description.

These problems were compounded by the death of its founder, A.C. Gilbert in 1961. With the popularity of toy trains and construction toys declining, and without another successful product line to buoy the company's finances, Gilbert found itself in serious financial trouble. Finally, a majority of the company was sold by the family to a holding company, the Wrather Group, in 1962 with A.C. Gilbert, Jr., acting as CEO. Within a few months, though, A.C. Jr., died. The company continued to manufacture trains of limited appeal, thanks to the questionable quality.

Under the new ownership, the A.C. Gilbert Co. continued to struggle, although the new owners took a more aggressive approach to advertising and marketing than when the firm was headed by the more conservative A.C. Gilbert. It manufactured a wide variety of poorly-designed and poorly-conceived toys (dolls, racing sets, games) that sold slowly, if at all, and was nearly overwhelmed by store returns of defective merchandise. Gilbert took an especially-hard hit when a majority of a poorly-designed and manufacturered James Bond 007 slot car racing set flooded back as returns after component failures. In addition, the company delivered many of its toy line products to discounters with a "100% sale guarantee." When the merchandise didn't sell through, it ended up back in Gilbert's warehouses. The company discontinued the American Flyer train line in 1966 and finally declared bankruptcy in 1967.


Hope you enjoyed it![tup]

Until the next time!

Lars
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Posted by BudKarr on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 1:35 PM
Good Afternoon Captain Tom and all assembled!

I see that today is yet another special day, hobby day or more appropriately, “Pike Perspective’s Day.” Well, I am not yet into that aspect of it all, and doubt that I will become a hobbyist per se, however, not to be “wet blanket,” I do have something to contribute. First, however, I will have a Southern Comfort on the rocks if you please and one for my lady!

Rather quiet thus far, although from the “count,” yesterday was quite successful. Appears as if the overwhelming majority of participants had something to offer for the “theme” of the Southern Railway. That was your objective and I would say you reached it! Kudos to one and all![tup]

Now to my submission (from Wikipedia, of course![swg])

Lionel Trains

QUOTE: The MPC (General Mills) era

The bankrupt Lionel Corporation sold the tooling for its then-current product line and licensed the Lionel name to General Mills in 1969, who then operated Lionel as a division of its subsidiary Model Products Corporation. General Mills did not buy the company, however. The Lionel Corporation became a holding company and invested in a number of ventures, including what would eventually become an East Coast chain of toy stores known as "Lionel Leisure World."

Due to General Mills' cost-cutting measures, production of Lionel-branded toy and model trains returned to profitability, but sometimes at the expense of quality. Detail was often sacrificed, and most of the remaining metal parts were replaced with molded plastic. A number of MPC's changes to the product line endure to the present day, the most noticeable being the use of needlepoint axles and trucks made of Delrin, two changes made to reduce friction and allow longer trains. Also starting in 1973, MPC experimented with a line of cars it called "Standard O," which were scaled to 1:48 (most postwar Lionel and MPC production was undersize for O scale). The experiment's failure is generally blamed on MPC's lack of a 1:48 locomotive and caboose to go with the cars; when it was repeated again in the 1980s with locomotives of appropriate size, it proved more successful.

An internal reorganization after 1973 caused Lionel to become part of General Mills' Fundimensions group. Although Lionel's tenure with MPC was relatively short, "MPC" is the most commonly used term for the 1970-1985 era.

In 1979, General Mills resurrected the American Flyer brand and product line, which Lionel Corporation had purchased from its bankrupt competitor (The A. C. Gilbert Company of New Haven, Connecticut) several months prior to its own bankruptcy in 1967. American Flyer products by Gilbert made after World War II are scaled roughly to a 1:64 proportion and are known as S gauge; their most distinctive feature, however, is that they operate on two-rail track as opposed to Lionel's three-rail trackage system.

With so many years of absence from the market, Gilbert American Flyer S gauge trains were no longer considered a direct competitor to Lionel's 1:48 proportion O gauge trains. To this day, Lionel markets American Flyer S gauge in limited quantities as collectibles.
The year 1982 brought General Mills' ill-fated move of train production from the United States to Mexico. Some Lionel fans were angry simply because the trains had been made in the United States for more than 80 years, while others criticized the quality of the Mexican-produced trains. Lionel production returned to the United States by 1984. During this time, corporate offices were retained at the company's Mount Clements (later, Chesterfield), Michigan, location.

When General Mills spun off its Kenner-Parker division in 1985, Lionel became part of Kenner-Parker. Lionel was sold again in 1986, this time to toy-train collector / real estate developer Richard P. Kughn of Detroit, Michigan.

The Kughn era

Kughn was a prolific toy train collector who said that his friends joked that the only thing his collection lacked was the company who made them. Kughn believed that if he moved production to Detroit, it would be possible to improve quality to a level characteristic of the original Lionel Corporation and still maintain profitability.

After his purchase, Kughn founded a company called Lionel Trains to continue the brand, and Lionel Trains Inc. opened a plant in Chesterfield, Michigan. In 1989 Lionel Trains introduced a locomotive featuring realistic electronically-produced sounds.

During this time frame, Lionel began producing new products based on designs from the Post-War era, when its popularity was at its peak. Additionally, some offerings began to depart from Lionel's toy-like design and place more emphasis on scale realism and detail, mirroring MPC's earlier "Standard O" experiments but to a larger degree.

Lionel also began selling reproductions of its designs that dated from the period before World War II, mostly in Standard Gauge. These products were made by MTH Electric Trains using original Lionel Corporation tooling, which had been sold at bankruptcy in the late 1960s after sitting unused for decades. This arrangement ended in the early 1990s after a disagreement between Kughn and MTH owner Mike Wolf.

The year 1993 brought Kughn's Lionel an opportunity. The original Lionel Corporation had recovered after the sale of its trains and survived as an entirely separate entity, operating a successful chain of retail toy stores for 24 years and becoming for a time the second-largest toy retailer in the country. However, it went bankrupt in the early 1990s under increased competition and liquidated in 1993, allowing the train manufacturer to purchase the Lionel trademark after years of operating as a licensee.

The Wellspring era

Lionel changed hands again in 1995, when Kughn sold controlling interest in the company to an investment group that included rock and roller Neil Young and holding company Wellspring Associates. The new company became known as Lionel LLC. The company continued marketing reproductions of its vintage equipment, and the trend towards producing new equipment that was ever-more-detailed (with a correspondingly higher price) continued.
Additionally, Young, who has a 20% stake in the company[1], helped finance the development of Trainmaster Command Control, a technology similar to Digital Command Control which permits, among other things, the operation of Lionel trains by remote control. In order to proliferate this standard, Lionel has licensed it to several of its competitors, including K-Line.

Lionel, LLC continued to manufacture and market trains and accessories in O scale under the Lionel brand and S gauge under the American Flyer brand. While most of the American Flyer product comprises re-issues using old Gilbert tooling from the 1950s, the O scale equipment is a combination of new designs and reissues. Lionel also ventured into HO scale at times during its history, with limited success.

In 2001, Lionel closed its last manufacturing plant in the United States, outsourcing production to Korea and China. While this move proved unpopular with some longtime fans, the backlash was minor in comparison to the failed move of production to Mexico in the 1980s. The company also licensed the Lionel name to numerous third parties, who have marketed various Lionel-branded products since 1995.

The 2004 Christmas movie Polar Express, based on the children's book of the same name, provided Lionel with its first hit in years. Lionel produced a train set based on the movie, and stronger-than-anticipated demand caused highly publicized shortages. Various news stories told of a reporter's quest to locate a set, and some dealers marked the prices up above the suggested retail price of $229. Sets turned up on eBay with buy-it-now prices of $449 as Lionel ordered an additional production run but said it would not be able to deliver the additional sets until March of the following year. Although many criticized Lionel for not producing more sets, Lionel's management called the set a great success.

This era was marked by legal troubles. In April 2000, competitor and former partner MTH Electric Trains filed a trade secret misappropriation lawsuit against Lionel, LLC, saying that one of Lionel's subcontractors had acquired plans for an MTH locomotive design and used them to design locomotives for Lionel. Additionally, on May 27, 2004, Union Pacific Railroad sued Athearn and Lionel for trademark infringement because both companies put the names and logos of UP, as well as the names and logos of various fallen flag railroads UP had acquired over the years, on their model railroad products without a license. While Athearn quickly settled and acquired a license, Lionel prepared to fight, arguing that it and its predecessor companies had been using the logos for more than 50 years and had been encouraged or even paid to do so.

The misappropriation lawsuit by MTH eventually went to trial, and on June 7, 2004, a jury in Detroit, Michigan found Lionel liable and awarded MTH $40,775,745. On November 1, 2004, a federal judge upheld the jury's decision. Lionel announced it would appeal, but two weeks later filed for bankruptcy.

In September 2004, the troubled company dismissed its CEO, Bill Bracy, and replaced him with Jerry Calabrese, a former Marvel Comics and NASCAR executive. Along with Bracy, another 17 high-level employees were also dismissed.

Bankruptcy

On November 15, 2004, Lionel, LLC filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, citing the $40 million-plus judgment in the MTH lawsuit as the primary factor. In the filing, it listed $55 million in debt and $42 million in assets. The largest secured creditor was PNC Financial Services Corp., owed $31 million. The MTH judgment was not included in the $55 million figure.

Collector value

The collector value of "modern era" Lionel trains has been limited compared to the trains produced by Lionel Corporation prior to 1969. There has been only limited collector interest in trains produced by this succession of entities, from MPC through to Lionel Trains Inc. and Lionel, LLC, especially if the items are in less than mint condition and do not include the original box. In addition, Lionel's reissues have somewhat decreased the collector value of even vintage Lionel and American Flyer equipment.

The MPC era is often derided, especially by fans of recent-production Lionel products that have better scale fidelity than the majority of MPC production and by fans of Lionel Corporation's postwar era. These critics often call MPC an acronym for "Mostly Plastic Crap." MPC has a small following due to the quality of the graphics, variety of roadnames produced, and play value. Others are attracted to MPC because of its low cost and the ease of finding MPC-produced train sets and accessories, often barely used, in its original packaging.


Must get a move on, as we are heading down the mountain (again!)

Best to all!

BK
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 10:51 AM
G'day Gents,

Sorry, but I had to edit that Post of mine with the model railroad logos - seems that the URL somehow "changed" and didn't "go" to the right place. Some the "RR Book Relay" Pix comes up, but not all of the time!! [%-)][%-)][%-)] PhotoBucket strikes again! Just don't get it with them .... I hate to think about how much work it is going to be for me to transfer everything over to RailImages. Argggggggggggggggggggggh![tdn]

Nice dissertation on the model kits, CM3. I can recall having a few 'sessions' when I was a kid over misuse of my mom's scissors.<grin> However, this German-Irish lady was a big-time user of "stick." And guess where it was applied[?]<frown>

Some elaboration: There was an orange "stick" (probably an old broom or mop handle) in the ktichen, left over from the days when we had a coal fired stove. When converted to kerosene, the "stick" remained. My mom found good use for it, as mentioned, and to this day, orange "sticks" bode bad memories![swg]

Good stuff on the steam loco's, for which I have very little knowledge. Insofar as the MoPac 'n Rock Island are concerned, I really haven't any particular connection to either. For when they were up and roarin', I lived elsewhere. However, I do model the MoPac on my S-Capades layout![swg]

Appreciate the round and quarters. Coal Scuttle has a way to go in order to replenish what has been expended during our two most recent Bashes![tup]

Later![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: WV
  • 1,251 posts
Posted by coalminer3 on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:08 AM
Good Morning Barkeep and All Assembled; coffee, please; round for the house, and $ for the jukebox. Temps in the low 30s here today, light snow, high winds, and gas went up to $2.50 yesterday - maybe the barges got stuck in the ice after the cold front went by.

Lots of Southern material and mannnny other interesting items posted yesterday. Also, thanks for the stories and the IC information.

I am grateful for the heads up from our 'steamed proprietor on the theme of the week as it gives the CM3 research dept. time to dig up material.

A couple of comments.

I was quite interested in the picture of Harrisonburg in 1947. That line runs from Manassas to Harrisonburg via Front Royal. Those of us who have the fortune(?) to go to DC now and then know that I-66 affords good views, especially when the leaves are off the trees. IMHO, the whole area's going downhill account urban sprawl and condominiumization (hey, a new word!) - I'll stop of that b4 I get sent to the Rat's Room for political reeducation.

The Southern and constituent lines had a variety of 4-8-2s.

Those belonging to SOU, CNO&TP, and AGS were all built by Baldwin between 1917 and 1919. They had 27x28 cylinders and 69-inch drivers. Tractive effort varied a little bit from series to series.

C of G had several series of 4-8-2s as well; most of these were built by Richmond between 1919 and 1925. C of G also purchased five 4-8-2s from Baldwin in 1929. Again, these had 27x28 cylinders and 69-inch drivers.

The 4-8-2s mentioned above all went through various r# and modifications as you might expcet. Most of these mechanical changes resulted in slight increases in steam pressure and tractive effort.

BTW, the first 4-8-2s were built for the C&O at Richmond in 1911-1912. Our 'steamed proprietor will be pleased to know that the Missouri Pacific and the Rock Island were the ne next two 4-8-2 customers. The MP's first Mountians were built in 1913 by Schenectady, and the Rock Islands were blt. by Schenectady also in 1913.

Well, I didn't intend for this to become a steam locomotive seminar. Sorry,Boris, you'll have to put away the slash bar for another time. However, I do think the Hickory cap, bandana, long spouted oil can, cuff garters, gauntlets, and goggles do add a class touch to his usual attire.

Now as for pike perspectives - Strombecker? Wow!!!

I remember building some of their kits. They had model airplanes - solid wood, IIRC; and they also had model trains as well as mentioned in the post. I remember building a Rock Island Rocket train from those kits. The kits consisted of wooden cores aith paper overlays which you carefully cut out and pasted onto the core. I well remember cataching several kinds of grief from my mom because I high graded her best sewing scissors to cut out the locomotive sides and the car sides - it was not a pretty sight, boys! I pled ignorance and you know what that got me!

The locomotive was a representation of a RI E unit - maroon, red and silver; there were several different kinds of cars, As I said, the modeler cut out the car sides and pasted them onto the core; somewhat similar to what's done today with certain high end passenger car kits. The cars were silver to represent stainless steel equipment. All in all, it didn't look that bad, although it was certainly an odd scale - if you could clal it that. I am really reaching back here, but I seem to recall that these kits came with casein glue which you mixed up and used to assemble everything.

work safe

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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:56 AM
Good Morning Guys!

Here's something for Pike Perspectives Day that was first Posted on Jan 11th . . .



Click on the URL for a larger version:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b222/siberianmo/Novelties/?action=view¤t=f80efa87.jpg
Enjoy![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:33 AM
Good Morning!

Another nice day with continuing blue skies, and temps just above freezing. “They” tell us we’ll have a couple of weeks of below-average temps, then spring gets sprung!

Yesterday’s RRs from Yesteryear “theme” for the Southern Railway was well received. THANX to Doug - BK – Lars – Rob - CM3 ‘n Al we had quite an outpouring from the guys.[tup][tup][tup] Now, THAT’s the way to do it![yeah] So much better than “Posting into the wind,” so to speak.[swg]

My only “wish” is that somehow we could get 20 Fingers to “open up a bit” and “speak” to the guys. But, “we takes, what we gets!”[swg]

So, what’s the deal with Theodorebear Ted, nickinwestwales Nick, West Coast S Dave ‘n Trainnut484 Russell[?][?] All now well entrenched in the “former regulars” category and in ‘n out of the Legion of the Lost! Pity. We’ll be here, whenever it is you find your way back . . . unfortunately, much too much material has passed you by.[tdn]

Rob Appreciate your late night Posts! Nice work with the “theme” input as well.[tup] Email received and a response is en route. RR Book Relay! book was sent to you by Doug last week – don’t know the exact date. Watch for it . . .

Doug Nice input for our “Pike Perspectives Day” – hope to get something of my own Posted this AM.

I’ve avoided getting involved in our subdivision “leadership” for the 16 years I’ve lived here. I look at those organizations as the lowest rung on the “political ladder,” far too many agendas and personalities for me to deal with. I don’t deal with that stuff well at all![swg] Anyway, I figure with 32 years of active duty military, a few years of being with the local police department and six years of working for and with my state rep/senator – I’ve done my share for my community, state and nation.

Dennis I see you are “getting there” with the Posts. Take your time, “pardner,” there’s lots of info to catch up on as well as the routine. If you are looking for something like a one-on-one exchange (aka: Instant Messenger) ‘round here, it hardly ever happens. As mentioned yesterday, there just aren’t times when one can ‘count on’ having people to interact with. Just Post your thoughts, acknowledgments, etc. and see what happens. Just remember the “precepts!” and you’ll be fine.[swg]

Above all – for all – to get ACKNOWLEDGED one must ACKNOWLEDGE.[tup]

BK ‘n Lars I appreciate your support and without the both of you, we’d have a far different environment ‘round here. The past several weeks have been a bit “rough” on Moi. You guys have “been there” during the droughts and slack times, and it shows.[tup][tup][tup]


Okay, boyz, I’ll be here for the day!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


Stick around a few minutes AFTER POSTING - The information you MISS may be for YOU!

Those who acknowledge the other guy, get acknowledged!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:15 AM
Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Just Time for a Coffee and a Crumpet.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER #75

PANAMA LIMITED IC Trains 5-6 May 3, 1942 Chicago – New Orleans overnight All-Pullman 921.1 miles 16 hours 30 minutes

The PANAMA LIMITED was the pride of the Illinois Central and the only all Pullman train operated by the IC. It was placed in overnight service between Chicago and New Orleans with through cars to and from St. Louis being added to the southbound, and set out by the northbound at Carbondale, Illinois beginning May 1, 1942. The new lightweight streamlined diesel powered trains replaced heavyweight steam powered PANAMA LIMITED trains on that date. The new streamliners were painted in another paint scheme this time Chocolate Brown, Orange and Yellow. This paint scheme would be the one adopted as the permanent scheme for all future IC streamliners. The paint scheme on the diesels would be simplified on future units but it utilized the same colors. The PANAMA LIMITED was one of an elite group of lightweight all Pullman streamlined trains consisting of the PRR BROADWAY LIMITED, PRR LIBERTY LIMITED, PRR SPIRIT OF ST. LOUIS, SP LARK, NYC TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED, AT&SF CHIEF, and AT&SF SUPER CHIEF. Of these trains only the PANAMA LIMITED and SUPER CHIEF were diesel powered. The initial schedule imposed on the PANAMA LIMITED was eighteen hours in either direction. The new PANAMA LIMITED train sets would provide yeoman service during WW II and for many years after. Power for the new streamliners came from EMD in the form of a pair of E6A units for each train set. The cars were all built by Pullman Standard except for the two head end cars in each train set these were rebuilt and streamlined by the IC Railroads own Burnside shops in Chicago.

CONSIST ONE

4000 EMD E6A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

4002 EMD E6A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1901 LAKE MICHIGAN Baggage 17-Crew Dormitory Car

CITY OF JACKSON 18-Roomette Sleeping Car

BANANA ROAD 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

KING COAL 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

LAND O’STRAWBERRIES 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

GENERAL BEAUREGARD 3-Double Bedroom 1-Compartment 1-Drawing Room Bar 21-Seat Lounge Car

4101 EVANGELINE 32-Seat Dining 16-Seat Cocktail Lounge Cars

CHICAGOLAND 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car

PELICAN STATE 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

PRAIRIE STATE 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

TIMBERLAND 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

GULFPORT 2- Double Bedroom 2-Compartment 1-Drawing Room 26-Seat Lounge Observation

CONSIST TWO

4001 EMD E6A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

4003 EMD E6A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1902 LAKE PONCHARTRAIN Baggage 17-Crew Dormitory Car

CITY OF NEW ORLEANS 18-Roomette Sleeping Car

BLUE GRASS STATE 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

KING COTTON 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

MAGNOLIA STATE 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

GENERAL JACKSON 3-Double Bedroom 1-Compartment 1-Drawing Room Bar 21-Seat Lounge Car

4102 VIEUX CARRE 32-Seat Dining 16-Seat Cocktail Lounge Car

ST. LOUISIAN 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car

PETROLEUM 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

SUGARLAND 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

VOLUNTEER STATE 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

MEMPHIS 2-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment 1-Drawing Room 26-Seat Lounge Observation

The last two 6-6-4 sleeping cars in each consist operated as New Orleans - St. Louis cars dropped by the northbound PANAMA LIMITED at Carbondale and proceeding in a separate train to St. Louis.

In April, 1948 the IC shops rebuilt and streamlined the old heavyweight coach3160 into a 40-seat streamlined Parlor car numbered and named 3350 ILLINI. This parlor operated in the southbound PANAMA LIMITED nightly between Chicago and Carbondale. While the St. Louis – New Orleans sleepers were added the 3350 ILLINI was switched out. When the northbound PANAMA LIMITED arrived in Carbondale the next morning The 3350 ILLINI was added to the Chicago bound streamliner while the St. Louis sleepers were switched out.

Beginning January 1, 1950 the PANAMA LIMITED became the only overnight all Pullman train in North America to operate with two first class Parlor cars in its nightly journey. On that date a second parlor car 3351 CAPITOL STREET was added to the northbound PANAMA LIMITED between New Orleans and Jackson, Mississippi each evening returning the next morning in the southbound New Orleans bound PANAMA LIMITED from Jackson. The 3351 CAPITOL STREET was streamlined for the CITY OF NEW ORLEANS Louisville-Fulton connecting train originally as a coach – lounge car 3700 FULTON. When this connecting service ended the car was assigned first to general service and finally rebuilt to a 32-seat Parlor Car.

The PANAMA LIMITED trains were upgraded in 1950 with new 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom sleeping cars and Twin Unit Dining Cars. Since one of the Twin units was a Crew Dormitory Kitchen car the head end Baggage Crew Dormitory cars were withdrawn from the PANAMA LIMITEDS and replaced with baggage mail cars.

In 1953 new 11-Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars were added to the PANAMA LIMITED trains.

Between 1958 and 1965 used refurbished 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom, 10-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom and additional 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars were purchased from other roads. These cars were then assigned to the PANAMA LIMITED and CITY OF MIAMI.

In 1967 the IC timetable saw the birth of a new train the MAGNOLIA STAR an all coach overnight streamliner between Chicago and New Orleans. Upon closer examination one soon realized the PANAMA LIMITED had at last lost its All Pullman status. Yes, the MAGNOLIA STAR was nothing more than a Coach and Tavern Lounge car added to the PANAMA LIMITED.

In 1970 the St. Louis – Carbondale section was discontinued and one year later with the birth of Amtrak the PANAMA LIMITED was no more.

TTFN AL
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 5:34 AM
Good morning Tom and all! I'll have 2 light breakfasts please. We're back to being cold in these parts, after some very windy days. Hopefully this will be the last cold snap of the year. I see that Rob finished off our Southern theme last night, and at least from this end, I thought we had a succesful day. Today is a busy one for me, with work and the dreaded quarterly condo board meeting tonight. It's the kind of day I can't wait to see end. Bummer for me, but hopefully not you. Here's my Pike submission and traditional groaner:

Two Million Locomotive Models by Thomas T. Taber Oct. 1936 Railroad Stories

The kingdom of the model fans is divided into two parts. There are the scale model makers and owners, who are satisfied with only the most accurate reproduction of detail, down to the last spring leaf and staybolt; and there is the vast army of toy and tin-plate owners, some of whom haven’t the time or money and others who haven’t the inclination to become scale model men. What could be a more insurmountable job, we ask you, than the task of creating a new kind of model that will sell to both groups?

To J.F. Strombeck the question is beside the point. He has succeeded in manufacturing and selling two million locomotive models which are not only priced to appeal to the toy train world, but which are so accurate and attractive that not even the sternest railroad or model enthusiast can find anything but praise for them. The point is that when Mr. Strombeck began he knew nothing about the division of model fans; and his decision to manufacture wooden scale reproductions of locomotives, he admits, was almost accidental.

His firm, the Strombeck-Becker Co., was founded in 1911, and began its life in a small frame building in Moline, Il., where it manufactured wooden handles and other types or turned wood specialties. When molded plastics, such as Bakelite, came into vogue, the demand for many types of wood turnings fell off, and Mr. Becker had to discover some new thing to manufacture. Wooden toys, he decided, were the thing, and wooden toys of various types, including doll houses, were made. Although business picked up, it didn’t pick up enough; and the other officers of the company got together to find a solution.

The meeting adjourned up a blind alley, and Mr. Becker started home to forget the cares of his business for at least one weekend. On the way he was blocked by a train on a crossing. While waiting for it to pass, as he had done many times before, he unconsciously watched the cars and waited for the engine. Like Archimedes in the bathtub, the question and the answer came to him all at once. What was it that he had never lost interest in, and that everyone, regardless of age, turns to admire? The answer was simple: Trains!

There were hasty telephone calls, another meeting, and before the Sabbath was over the toy designer had instructions to go forth into the Rock Island yards with camera, rule, and sketch pencil. After that production began. Before long a line of durable wooden toy trains appeared. Realistic, accurately painted and lettered, they cost only a dime apiece; and when they first appeared in 1929, they took the toy market by storm.

But that was just the beginning. Two years ago Mr. Strombeck visited a “Wings of a Century” pageant at the Chicago World’s Fair, and it impressed him so much that he sent his toy designer to attend it. The historic engines there caught the fancy of the designer, so he made reproductions of them. Mr. Strombeck admired them immensely, but when he figured the cost of turning out something of the sort on a quantity basis, he regretfully had to put it aside. It would sell for too much.

A few days later, his son came in the factory to see him. “Say, dad,” he said, “you can buy airplanes in kits, ready to be put together; and boats, too, but I’ve never seen a locomotive. Why can’t you make engines in parts, put them in a carton with some glue and instructions, and sell them?”

“Son,” replied the elated and proud father, “the only reason we haven’t done it is that you haven’t told me about it before.” From then on he concentrated on that idea. He went to a chain store executive and asked how many he thought a set of authentic wooden models, each knocked down in a carton, would sell at 25 cents apiece. We’ll try them,” was the non-committal answer. They did try them, and the public bought them – more than two million in a single year.

Soon there appeared a second series of six engines, and cars to go with them. And then, finally, the company met the demand for larger and more complete models at higher prices. It turned them out at prices up to a dollar, and put a two-foot-long Hudson type on the market at two dollars. The way it had sold has convinced Mr. Strombeck that there’s a big future in making accurate scale models.

One of the most important things about these models, of course, is the fact that they aren’t ready-made. In taking the pieces from the carton, putting them together just right, and then painting the finished equipment lies half the fun.

The company outgrew its original quarters long ago, and today it owns a four-acre plant and employs 175 to 200 people. To the first wooden scale models of the old historic engines go much of the credit for its growth, and to its ability to unite the kingdom of modelmakers by appealing to their divergent tastes and ideas must go the credit for the rest.

[:I] A tourist walks into a curio shop in San Francisco. Looking around at the exotica, he notices a very lifelike, life-sized bronze statue of a rat. It has no price tag, but is so striking he decides he must have it. He took it to the owner: "How much for the bronze rat?"
"Twelve dollars for the rat, one hundred dollars for the story," said the owner. The tourist gave the man twelve dollars. "I'll just take the rat, you can keep the story." As he walked down the street carrying his bronze rat, he noticed that a few real rats had crawled out of the alleys and sewers and began following him down the street. This was disconcerting; he began walking faster. But within a couple blocks, the herd of rats behind him had grown to hundreds, and they began squealing. He began to trot toward the Bay, looking around to see that the rats now numbered in the MILLIONS, and were squealing and coming toward him faster and faster. Concerned, even scared, he ran to the edge of the Bay and threw the bronze rat as far out into the Bay as he could. Amazingly, the millions of rats all jumped into the Bay after it, and were all drowned.
The man walked back to the curio shop. "Ah ha," said the owner, "You have come back for the story?"
"No," said the man, "I came back to see if you have a bronze politician?" [:I]
  • Member since
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 5:22 AM

(courtesy: www.trainweb.org)

We open at 6 AM (all time zones!). (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Wednesday is here! Time to start up with a cuppa Joe, some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and of course a selection from our Menu Board for a <light> or <traditional> breakfast![tup]


Daily Wisdom

Seated in the backseat of a car when the rains began to fall, Yogi said, “Where’s that coming from?”[swg]
(yogi-ism)


Info for the Day:

Canadian Railways of the past – Hudson Bay Railways (HBRY) arrives Thursday – watch for it!

* Weekly Calendar:

TODAY: Pike Perspective’s Day!
Thursday: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: St. Patrick’s Day – Special Menu!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday

SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) comechtech Dennis Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 02:32:06 (275) Early AM visit

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 05:20:23 (275) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(3) barndad Doug Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 05:25:02 (275) AM visit, info & joke

(4) passengerfan Al Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 06:38:46 (276) Streamliner #74 – Crescent Ltd

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 07:10:07 (276) RR from Yesteryear en route!

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 07:37:49 (276) Acknowledgments, etc.

(7) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 08:08:16 (276) Theme for the Day! Southern Railway

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 08:28:19 (276) reply to: coalminer3

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 10:00:01 (276) RR from Yesteryear – Southern (SOU{

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 11:07:06 (276) Theme for the Day! Southern – Ad: 1956

(11) BudKarr BK Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 12:52:57 (276) Theme for the Day! Pix, etc.

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 13:37:35 (276) Theme for the Day! Southern – Ad: 1956

(13) passengerfan Al Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 14:11:26 (276) Theme for the Day! Streamlined sleeping cars

(14) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 14:24:07 (276) Theme for the Day! Southern Pix, etc.

(15) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 14 Mar 2006 , 14:48:52 (276) Theme for the Day! Name trains

(16) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 15:51:50 (276) Theme for the Day! Southern – Ad: 1955

(17) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 18:41:41 (276) Acknowledgments & Comments

(18) passengerfan Al Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 19:10:22 (276) Theme for the Day! Streamlined observations

(19) barndad Doug Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 20:09:59 (276) Inclusive Post & articles & joke

(20) comechtech Dennis Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 20:52:44 (276) PM visit

(21) comechtech Dennis Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 21:48:21 (276) etc.

(22) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 23:11:01 (276) Inclusive Post

(23) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 23:34:29 (276) Theme for the Day! Steam Excursion Locos



NOW SHOWING:

The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre
Double Features! Now with The Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, March 12th thru 18th: Mystery Alaska (1999) starring: Russell Crowe, Hank Azaria & Mary McCormack –and- Slap Shot (1977) starring: Paul Newman – Strother Martin & Michael Ontkean. SHORT: Beer and Pretzels (1933).


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 11:34 PM
I figured that since it's still tuesday that I would put a small meger bit of Southern info out to just cap off another successfull theme day.

As Tom stated in his first post the Southern was known for it's idosyncracies regarding locomotives, the High hood options being bought on everything as well haveing everything set up for long hood forward operation.Even merger partner NW tended to purchase and set up there locomotives this way as well, one would think it may have had something to do with both railroads being run by the Claytor Bros. Graham as the Southerns leader was also instrumental in the 30 yeasr of excursion steam trains on the Southern, which was uncerimoniously ended by the NS management in the early 90's with the final units NW's J 611 and artuiculated A class 1218 being the last two, these incidentkly spearheaded by NW Pres Robert Claytor. From 1964 to 1990 one could see many a steam locomotive pulling excursion trains along the Southern to the delight of railfans far and wide.

Southern Steam Excursion Locomotives 1964-1990

Ms class Mikado 4501 ( rebuilt 1964-66 by Tennessee Valley museum in Chatanooga )
1967 Consolidations 630 , and 722 aquired from the East Tennessee & Western NC ( traded two RS2's for them )
Savanha and Atlanta 4-6-2 750 was borrowed from the Atlanta NRHS in 1976 and ran with 630,and 722
Ex Texas and Pacific 2-10-4 610 was also leased in 1976
CPR Royal Hudson 2839 was leased in 1979 ( from Steamtown-parts from this loco were used by CP to rebuild 2816 )
In 1979 ex C&O Kanawha 2-8-4 2716 was leased and used until 1982 when the firebox gave out.
In 1983 NW J 611 was rebuilt and began excursion service
in 1987 NW A class 2-6-6-4 was rebuilt and entered service

Shortly thereafter the steam program was cancelled.

Rob
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    May 2014
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Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 11:11 PM
Good evening Leon ! I'll have a Keith's and leave some cash for a morning round[tup]

Tom I would say that another good theme day has reared it's ugly head[;)]. Great innfo from you sir as per usual. Recieved your email sir and a reply has been dispatched back to you. Interesting choice the Southern, as I figured it might it flicked many a switch, made it look kinda like old times today [tup]

BK Great picture's seems that you have found another good train picture site,man o man you have been bitten by the bug,which is a good thing [tup] Alway's good to have another solid contributor to Tom's fine establishment. No need to worry about myself, work hours have regulated me to the late night shift again, which allows for fewer daylight appearances here at least for the time being. So Count robula it will be again for a while I'm afraid ( unless I can teaach the cat to type ) Mr Shaefer's books are agood choice of Railroad reading materials,I posses a copy of volume 2 myself.

CM3 A truly wonderfull post sir, a gem in the fine tradition of this bar "n" grill. I can sence another silver throttle award comming in your direction, that or it's just the MTA's headlights in the tunnel[:0][:D]

Al Great Southern streamliner segmants [tup] short to the point and on theme good show [tup][tup]

Lars Heck l'm glad that you are taking up some of the daylight slack for us as well, and your contributions are always with thought and on topic, no need for any rat's Patooting as far as I'm concerned [tup] There are days that I wish I could put more up on the thread,but I know that you and doug and lately BK have me covered. It'ss appreciated [tup]

Rob
  • Member since
    June 2005
  • 13 posts
Posted by comechtech on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 9:48 PM
Tom and all, appears to be a quiet night although there is some snoring from the area of the pool table. Guess I'll boogie for now, try to drop back in later. As my English next door neighbor used to say, "Ta Ta fo now!"[}:)] Dennis.
  • Member since
    June 2005
  • 13 posts
Posted by comechtech on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 8:52 PM
Hello, all ! I finally got here within your normal hours.[:D] I'd like a cup of tea, please, I can't drink as it gives me an instant headache ![}:)] Drinks for the house, and how about some Johnny Cash? I've very much enjoyed the Southern information even though I model the Denver, South Park, and Pacific circa 1880. However, the wife is very into the name trains, especially the U.P. Columbine and her sister ship, the Portland Rose. I may not be of major help on some of your topics, but will help if I can!![:)] We may be able to help in the future if needed as we have the Colorado Railroad Museum here in town (Denver) and they have a great library, also the Denver Public Library. If we can help, let us know. Well, I've run off at the mouth enough, another round for all, I'll sit back here in the back for a while.[?]
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 8:09 PM
Good evening Tom and gents! I'll have my usual bottomless draught, here's quarters for tunes, and cash for a round! All I can say about the posts I have seen today from Tom , Al , CM3 , Lars , and BK is WOW !! There simply is no where else you can go to get so much information related to a specific railroad on a specific day. Absolutely amazing ... gentlemen ... and just one of the terrific ideas that our proprietor Tom has created for this very special place. Thanks Tom and gents, for all your hard work!

I want to also thank ya'll for making the birthday bash yesterday a most memorable experience. Again, the obvious hours of effort were in evidence, and was greatly appreciated by myself, and Lars. Thanks again guys .... well done!

Here's another humble submission from myself concerning todays theme ... and yes, BK, I had the earlier submission today all prepped to go. I've got my Pikes' piece ready for tomorrow too! And now ........

From Jan. 1937 Railroad Stories

The Hill-Billy Boy

My brother-in-law, R.L. Gilmer, of Atlanta, was in Southern Railway train service for forty years; he died about two years ago. In 1926, as a conductor running between Atlanta and Charlotte, N.C., he hauled “the most amusing yet pathetic” passenger he ever met, a five-year-old hill-billy boy. The little fellow was being taken to Atlanta to have a galvanized saucepan cut off his head. It seems that in playing he had gotten wedged into the pan so tightly that he could not be freed, but he was more concerned over Santa Claus being unable to find him than he was about getting the pan off.

When the lad returned shortly afterward, none the worse for the experience, he again traveled on the train of Conductor Gilmer. Mr. Gilmer saw to it that old Santa found the right address, and in a much bigger way than if the child had stayed at his poverty-ridden shack in the mountains – Mrs. Kate C. Shearer, Atlanta, Ga.

Santa Stops a Train

On December 24th, 1930, I happened to be aboard the Southern’s Memphis Special. The hour was late. Poker hands lost interest; the game petered out and gave way to general conversation. Eleven fifty-five. We left Huntsville on time. Scarcely had we started, though, when the brakes set. Someone guessed it was a breakdown and began to worry about connections at Memphis. I went to the vestibule. Opening the trap, I looked out. Conductor, brakeman and train porter trotted toward the head end. The hogger slid down the hand rail and walked back. When a pair of Pullman porters in overcoats passed, I dropped down and joined the parade.

By this time the baggage car door was open. Baggage smasher and express messenger began pushing out packages, grinning and chattering like school boys. They were loaded with bundles. Even the news butcher was helping. Then in happy procession they marched down the bank to a little cottage on the edge of town. Six minutes, as close as I could figure, were dropped near Huntsville, Ala., the Christmas Eve – minutes precious to a railraod’s schedule but minutes that added happiness to a young life.

The skipper explained, when we were under way again, that a crippled lad named O.T. Corder lived in that little house by the tracks. Unable to run and play like others, his recreation hours were spent in a wheel chair highballing everything that passed. Men from all over the division – from Bristol, Knoxville, Lexington and Birmingham – sent presents to him every year. It’s an old Southern custom. The dispatcher gave the train plenty of leeway to allow for that unscheduled stop. One year, General Superintendent Keister headed a collection list and ordered a special crew on Christmas Day so young Corder wouldn’t be missed. – James W. Fraser

[:I] I have a bumper sticker that says "Honk if your rich." If anyone behind me honks, I slam on the breaks. [:I]
  • Member since
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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 7:10 PM
Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for another 7-up and a round for the house and its back to taxes.

Continuing the Southern Theme for the day.

SOUTHERN
Streamlined Observations
by Al

The Southern owned a total of nine lightweight stream-lined Observations all constructed by Pullman Standard, six were swallow-tailed and three were blunt ended fitted with a diaphragm at the observation end.
The first three lightweight streamlined Observations were numbered and named 1100 LOUISIANA, 1101 LOUISIANA and 1102 LOUISIANA. Obviously they were tracked by their numbers and not their names to avoid confusion. Each of the three observation interiors featured a 36-seat Tavern lounge Bar Train Hostess Room 18 seat Lounge Observation. Each of the three observations was assigned to bring up the markers of all new seven-car coach streamliners named the SOUTHERNER operating daily in both directions between New York and New Orleans via Birmingham and were inaugurated March 31, 1941.

36 SEAT TAVERN BAR TRAIN HOSTESS ROOM 18 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Swallow-Tailed) Pullman Standard March 1941 (Built for and assigned to SOUTHERNER)

1100 LOUISIANA

1101 LOUISIANA

1102 LOUISIANA

The second trio of Observations arrived from Pullman Standard in early May 1941and these three 1150 WASHINGTON, 1151 KNOXVILLE, and 1152 MEMPHIS were Blunt ended Observations fitted with a diaphragm at each end. They featured interiors identical to the three SOUTHERNER Observations. These were built to bring up the rear of new nine car lightweight streamlined streamliners named the TENNESSEAN. Trailing the observations were heavyweight sleeping cars for part of the journey one and at other times two. The TENNESSEAN was a daily in each direction Washington - Memphis train. The TENNESSEAN was inaugurated May 18, 1941.

36 SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR TRAIN HOSTESS ROOM 18 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Blunt ended) Pullman Standard May 1941 (Built for and assigned to TENNESSEAN)

1150 WASHINGTON

1151 KNOXVILLE

1152 MEMPHIS

The last three observation delivered to the Southern in February - March 1950 were part of an eight-car order to equip the CRESCENT and ROYAL PALM. These Observations all featured the large picture windows around the Observation Lounge end and contained 5 Double Bedrooms and a Bar as well.
The four built for the CRESCENT were 2300 ROYAL ARCH Southern owned, 3300 ROYAL CANAL, 3301 ROYAL STREET both owned by the L&N and ROYAL PALACE owned by the WofA. The four built for assignment to the ROYAL PALM were 2301 ROYAL COURT Southern owned, 3499 ROYAL PALM owned by Southern subsidiary CNOT&P, ROYAL CREST owned by the NYC and AZALEA owned by the FEC.

5 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 24 SEAT PICTURE WINDOWED LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Swallow-Tailed) Pullman Standard February - March 1950 Plan: 4162 Lot: 6814 (Built for and assigned to the CRESCENT and ROYAL PALM)

CRESCENT

SOU

2300 ROYAL ARCH

L&N

3300 ROYAL CANAL

3301 ROYAL STREET

WofA

ROYAL PALACE

ROYAL PALM

SOU

2301 ROYAL COURT

CNOT&P

3499 ROYAL PALM

NYC

ROYAL CREST

FEC

AZALEA

In November 1950 Southern renamed the 2300 ROYAL ARCH to 2300 LUTHER CALVIN NORRIS it remained in CRESCENT service after renaming.
In September 1958 Pullman rebuilt Southern owned 2300 LUTHER CALVIN NORRIS and 2301 ROYAL COURT into 11 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars with no change of numbers or names. The following month October 1958 the Southern CNOT&P car 3499 ROYAL PALM underwent the same rebuilding to a 11 Double Bedroom Sleeping car retaining its original number and name. The three 11 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars were assigned to the CRESCENT between New York and Atlanta.
It was one of the above observations that was built for the CRESCENT that was destroyed while operating on the rear of the CITY OF LOS ANGELES in the worst accident evber suffered by a CITY streamliner. The CITY OF LOS ANGELES was rear ended by the CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO and not only was the observation destroyed but two new sleeping cars as well. This accident happened at Wyuta, Wyoming in 1951.

TTFN Al
  • Member since
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 6:41 PM
Evenin' Gents!

Just a word of THANX to passengerfan Al - coalminer3 CM3 - BudKarr BK 'n LoveDomes Lars for contributing to the Theme for the Day! Southern. It surely makes a huge difference when there are more people rowing the boat than one or two![tup]

Really liked those Pix from BK 'n Lars! Nicely done on both counts.[tup] I saw that Southern 4-6-2 some years back while in WashDC and it is candy for the eyes! As you know, my model railroad preferences are for diesels, but there was a time I contemplated buying some of the Classic steam locos to represent the "best" of the various types. Back then, when these things were far more affordable, I recall passing up a chance to get a replica of that 4-6-2 w/tender and in a lucite case, for under $100! Can you imagine that in today's world of HO[?] That's another story . . . .

Emails received from Lars 'n BK - one sent to Rob. Also heard from Pete - he's having continuing 'puter difficulties that are preventing him from getting the most current page loaded. Says things are deteriorating. Upgrade to broadband on the way and will be installed on Friday. So, we may or may not be seeing our friend Wolfman . . . .

Okay, Gents, time to fill your glasses - whadilyahave[?]

REMINDER: Leon the Night Man takes the bar at 9 PM (Central)

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 3:51 PM
G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #76

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Southern Railway (SOU) in a 1955 advertisement from my private collection:



PERFECT PLANT SITE

. . . . . (for someone else) . . . . .

PLANT SITE SPECIFICATIONS ARE highly individualized. That’s why it does not disturb our Industrial Development people in the least to have you turn thumbs down on a “picture-book” site such as this one.

They recognize that many factors enter into plant location studies. And they know, too, that chances are they do have just what you are looking for. As one of the largest, and most experienced industrial development agencies in the South, the Southern’s Industrial Development Department has complete and detailed information on hundreds of available sites of every size, kind and description.

This comprehensive “one-source” service for so many industry location possibilities throughout the Southland is set up to serve you – competently, completely and of course in strict confidence. Let us hear from you so we can help you.

Look Ahead – Look South!”

Harry A. DeButts
President

SOUTHERN RAILWAY SYSTEM
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Washington, D.C. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . The Southern Serves the South . . . . .


That's it for me for the "Theme" - Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: northeast U.S.
  • 1,225 posts
Posted by LoveDomes on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 2:48 PM
Hello Again Tom

Just thought that in absence of any "Fallen Flag" info from you or anyone else, I'd throw in these:

Name trains of the Southern Railway (SOU):

QUOTE: Aiken-Augusta Special
Asheville Special
Birmingham Special
Carolina Special
Crescent
Florida Special
Peach Queen
Pelican
Piedmont Limited
Ponce de Leon
Royal Palm
Southerner
Sunnyland
Tennessean


My standard caveat applies: I do not take credit nor blame for the accuracy of this list. I do not know what era it represents, nor do I give a Rat's Patoot! It has been provided for our mutual enjoyment![swg]

Set 'em up, barkeep and this time I gotta scram outta here![swg]

Until the next time![tup]

Lars
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: northeast U.S.
  • 1,225 posts
Posted by LoveDomes on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 2:24 PM
Hi Tom and Gents at the bar!


Great stuff on the Southern!. Really enjoy reading about that road. Fine looking livery in its day. Figured I’d keep it going with my humble input:


Southern 4-6-2 Pacific #1401 at the Smithsonian, Washington, D. C.



Southern #1401 4-6-2 Pacific at the Smithsonian, Washington, D. C.

QUOTE: Southern Railway No. 1401 Date Made: 1926 Dates Used: 1926 - 1952 Locations: Alabama, Dist of Columbia, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia Manufacturer: American Locomotive Company, Richmond Works Place of Manufacture: Richmond, Virginia (1926) Passenger steam locomotive: Class 4-6-2 'Pacific' (also Class 'Ps-4' on Southern Railway). Complete locomotive includes engine and its - very necessary - tender, which carries the locomotive's fuel for the firebox and water to feed the boiler, to make steam for propulsion. Dimensions: 91ýýý 11-7/8ýýý L x 14ýýý 11ýýý H x 10ýýý 2ýýý W. Weight: Total, engine and tender in 'working order' with coal in firebox and tender and water in boiler and tender is 561,600 lbs. or 281 tons. Includes 92 tons of fuel and water in engine and tender. Total weight of engine + tender as displayed is 189 tons. Color: Green set off with gold striping, aluminum-painted running board edges and tires, and chrome-plated steel rods and valve gear (the chrome plating - never applied to any locomotive's rods because chrome-plating weakens steel - simulates the brightly polished steel rods and valve gear typical of Ps-4 locomotives in service, 1926-1953). Firebox Grate Area: 75 square feet. Cylinders (2, with one on each side, at front; these propel the locomotive): 27 x 28. Driving Wheels: 73" dia. Steam Pressure: 210 lb/sq. in. Fuel: Coal (16 tons coal, plus 14,000 gallons of water, in tender) You can see this locomotive in the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of American History in Washington. The 1401 is so large it was put into position prior to the completion of the American History building and the museum was finished around it.
from: http://smithsonianimages.si.edu

Yeah, I left that “yyy” in there – didn’t want to guess at feet and inches – go figger![swg]

Southern on the move, Harrisonburg, VA (1947)



Tom Looks like BK and I must be on the same wave length, for I too sent you and email. Great work yesterday – and all days. You surely know how to organize and run a party at the bar. Again, my profound THANKS to those of you who took the time to join in the Bash! and for the rest who passed along well wishes![tup]

CM3 Nice work – very nice work![tup][tup][tup]

BK Great pix – I was just about to visit that site, but you got there first![swg]

Doug You must have had that post previously prepared. No way do I believe you got that bugger done this morning![swg]


I’m hungry! How about one of those great looking hero sandwiches – yeah, same-o, same-o – the usual, ham – swiss – mustard – butter – two large pickles from the barell, and a keg of brew![swg] Ok, so you don’t sell the kegs, then just a frosty cold bottle with a equally frosty mug will do. Keiths Ale please!

A round for the boyz, whenever they show up that is![tup]


Until the next time!

Lars
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 2:11 PM
Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a 7-up andf a round for the house.

Sorry to disappoint you on the Southern Crescent offering this AM but it is still a work in progress.

I'll try this.

SOUTHERN
Streamlined Sleeping Cars
by Al

The Southern put together some of the finest streamlined trains to operate in the Southeastern United States. There first streamlined train was an all coach streamliner running between New York and New Orleans by way of Birmingham named the SOUTHERNER beginning March 31, 1941. This was followed by another mostly streamlined train the TENNESSEAN began service May 18, 1941 between Washington, D. C. and Memphis, Tennessee. The TENNESSEAN operated with heavyweight sleeping cars bringing up the markers of the otherwise all streamlined consist. Streamlining of the Premier All Pullman CRESCENT LIMITED would take place following WW II.
The Southern would streamline most of their trains following the war.
A lightweight streamlined NEW ROYAL PALM would operate between Cincinnati and Miami with cars originating in Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland and Buffalo. But for some reason this train would never gain the popularity of the other Southern trains.
The Southerner would receive new cars following WW II, as would the TENNESSEAN. In fact following WW II the TENNESSEAN would become a fully streamlined train when the Southern received 14 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars in October - November 1949 from Pullman Standard. These eleven cars were assigned to the TENESSEAN with two to each consist. One car was a New York - Memphis car, another a Washington - Memphis car. The extra 14-4 cars were assigned to the NEW ROYAL PALM between Buffalo and Miami. The 14-4 cars were assigned 2200 series numbers and given VALLEY suffix names.

14 ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard October - November 1949 Plan: 4153C Lot: 6814 (Built for and assigned to TENNESSEAN)

2200 CASHIER'S VALLEY

2201 HIWASSEE VALLEY

2202 JAMES RIVER VALLEY

2203 MISSISSIPPI VALLEY

2204 PAINT ROCK VALLEY

2205 PIEDMONT VALLEY

2206 ROANOKE VALLEY

2207 SHENANDOAH VALLEY

2208 SPRING VALLEY

2209 TENNESSEE VALLEY

2210 WAUHATCHIE VALLEY


The Southern equipped the new streamlined CRESCENT with three types of lightweight sleeping cars 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom cars were predominate in the consists with a single 1 Master Room 2 Drawing Room Buffet 21 seat Lounge car assigned to each train set. The third type lightweight streamlined sleeping car assigned to the CRESCENT was a 5 Double Bedroom Buffet 8 seat Cocktail Lounge 14 Seat Lounge Observation with high windows and raised observation lounge. The postwar Southern CRESCENT would operate as an all-Pullman train between New York and Atlanta and between Atlanta and New Orleans coaches were operated as well. The CRESCENT required four sets of equipment for daily operation. The CRESCENT was the only train in the south operating with a Master Room. It joined one other prestigious postwar train the BROADWAY LIMITED as being only one of two trains left in the United States by 1950 still operating with a Master Room. Sleeping cars operated in the CRESCENT were owned by not only the Southern but by other roads such as the L&N, PRR, WofA and A&WP and are identified as to ownership.

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard September - October 1949 Plan: 4140 Lot: 6814 (Built for and assigned to CRESCENT)

SOUTHERN

2002 DAN RIVER

2003 CATAWBA RIVER

2004 ENOREE RIVER

2007 OTTER RIVER

2008 PACOLET RIVER

2009 POTOMAC RIVER

2010 RAPIDAN RIVER

2011 RIVANNA RIVER

2012 SALUDA RIVER

2013 SENECA RIVER

2014 SHENANDOAH RIVER

2017 TIGER RIVER

2019 TUGALO RIVER

2020 TYE RIVER

2021 YADKIN RIVER

2022 YORK RIVER

PRR

8351 BIRCH RIVER

8352 BUSH RIVER

8353 DELAWARE RIVER

8354 MIDDLE RIVER

8355 PATAPSCO RIVER

8356 RARITAN RIVER

8357 SCHUYLKILL RIVER

8358 SUSQUEHANNA RIVER

A&WP

CHATTAHOOCHEE RIVER

L&N

3400 MOBILE RIVER

3401 PEARL RIVER

W of A

ALABAMA RIVER

1 MASTER ROOM 2 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 21 SEAT LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard December 1949 Plan: 4160 Lot: 6814 (Built for and assigned to CRESCENT)

2350 CRESCENT CITY

2351 CRESCENT HARBOR

2352 CRESCENT MOON

2353 CRESCENT SHORES

5 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 8 SEAT COCKTAIL LOUNGE 14 SEAT RAISED LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard February - March 1950 Plan: 4162 Lot: 6814 (Built for and assigned to CRESCENT)

SOUTHERN

2300 ROYAL ARCH

L&N

3300 ROYAL CANAL

3301 ROYAL STREET

W of A

ROYAL PALACE

The remaining 10-6 sleeping cars delivered to the Southern, CNOT&P and FEC were for the NEW ROYAL PALM. The other sleeping cars for the NEW ROYAL PALM were four 5 Double Bedroom Buffet 8 Seat Cocktail Lounge 14 Seat Lounge Observations. These were owned one each by the Southern, CNOT&P, NYC and FEC. The other sleeping cars assigned to the seasonal NEW ROYAL PALM were prewar 13 Double Bedroom COUNTY series sleeping cars belonging to the NYC and IMPERIAL series 4 Compartment 4 Double Bedroom 2 Drawing Room Sleeping cars also NYC. The 10-6 sleeping cars assigned to the NEW ROYAL PALM follow:

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard September - October 1949 Plan: 4140 Lot: 6814 (Built for and assigned to NEW ROYAL PALM)

Southern

2000 ALAPAHA RIVER

2001 ALTAMAHA RIVER

2005 FLINT RIVER

2006 OCMULGEE RIVER

2015 RAPPAHANNOCK RIVER

2016 ST. JOHNS RIVER

2018 TOMBIGBEE RIVER

2023 WARRIOR RIVER

CNOT&P

3400 EMORY RIVER

3401 FRENCH BROAD RIVER

3402 COOSA RIVER

3403 HOLSTON RIVER

3404 ETOWAH RIVER

FEC

ARGENTINA

BRAZIL

CHILE

GUATEMALA

VENEZUELA

The four Sleeper Lounge Observations built for the NEW ROYAL PALM were as follows:

5 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 8 SEAT COCKTAIL LOUNGE 14 SEAT RAISED LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard February - March 1950 Plan: 4162 Lot: 6814 (Built for and assigned to NEW ROYAL PALM)

Southern

2301 ROYAL COURT

CNOT&P

3499 ROYAL PALM

NYC

ROYAL CREST

FEC

AZALEA

In November 1950 the Southern renamed 2300 ROYAL ARCH to 2300 LUTHER CALVIN NORRIS.
In September 1958 Pullman rebuilt 2300 LUTHER CALVIN NORRIS and 2301 ROYAL COURT into straight eleven Double Bedroom Sleeping cars for assignment to the CRESCENT between New York and Atlanta. Pullman rebuilt A third car belonging to Southern subsidiary CNOT&P 3499 ROYAL PALM in October 1958 to an eleven double bedroom sleeping car. This car was then assigned to run with the other two in CRESCENT service.
Although other Southern trains were assigned 10-6 Sleeping cars few of these trains became fully streamlined. One of the exceptions was the streamlined all coach SOUTHERNER that was assigned a 10-6 operating between New York and Birmingham in both directions.
Another 10-6 operated in the heavyweight BIRMINGHAM SPECIAL between New York and Birmingham.
The PEACH QUEEN carried one 10-6 between New York and Winston/Salem another between New York and Raleigh/Durham.
The AIKEN-AUGUSTA SPECIAL and ASHEVILLE SPECIAL forwarded a 10-6 Sleeping car between New York and Asheville.

TTFN Al
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 1:37 PM
Theme for the Day! - Theme for the Day!

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #75

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Southern Railway (SOU) in a 1956 advertisement from my private collection:



Gone with the wind!

WHEN A FREIGHT CAR rolls down the “hump” at our new $14 million Citico Yard at Chattanooga, Tennessee, even its wind resistance is automatically measured.

While the car is rolling, a radar device instantly picks up and evaluates all the factors that affect its rollability – weight, speed, size, wind, weather and others., Then the magic brain of an electronic computer regulates the retarder brake in the track under the moving car so that it will couple safely and gently to another car standing far down in the yard below.

This is a new kind of railroading. You’ll see itr at work in countless ways on the Southern today – at Citico, and in our other multi-million dollar push-button yards at Knoxville, Tenn. and Birmingham, Ala. And still another ultra-modern electronic yard to cost $15 million is now under construction at Atlanta, Ga.

Yesteryear railroading is “gone with the wind” on the Southern. Today’s modern railroading means dependable, ever improving transportation for the fast-growing area we serve.

Look Ahead – Look South!”

Harry A. DeButts
President

SOUTHERN RAILWAY SYSTEM
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Washington, D.C. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . The Southern Serves the South . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

Theme for the Day! - Theme for the Day!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Alberta's Canadian Rockies
  • 331 posts
Posted by BudKarr on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 12:52 PM
Greetings Captain Tom and all assembled!

Your daily summary indicates that there was quite a flurry of activity between 2 and 7 PM (Central)! Must have been quite a BASH! The recipients of the outpouring surely should feel good about the day! Nice work, Sir, your extra efforts make these things border on the stupendous![tup]

I read with a bit of alarm something in your “tone” that is a bit bothersome to me and I have communicated further by email. Publicly I wi***o state that no matter how hard you try, nor how much you wish it to be, there will always be those who have other agendas, other things on their plates (so to speak) and just do not view the activities on these pages as anything more than a diversion – nothing more, nothing less. There IS a nucleus, or a core, it just seems to be rather amorphous lately. Once it was well defined, now a bit cloudy.


The “theme” is a great one. Lots of railroading history jammed into that particular southeast U.S. road. How do I know? I am reading about them – the RRs of the U.S. in Mike Schaefer’s “Classic American Railroads,” volumes I, II & III.[swg] Very nice work with your initial offering and the “Nostalgia” piece too.

Sir Coalminer3 that is quite a submission you put forth and I echo Captain Tom’s accolades. Great work![tup] Whatever it is you do for a living, perhaps you should take up writing. You seem to ‘come by it naturally.’[tup]


Today is SOUTHERN RAILWAY day, so I will jump right in with some photos from the past:


Southern 2-8-8-2 #4057 (1938) (from: www.yesteryeardepot.com)



Southern 4-8-2 #495 (1950) (from: www.yesteryeardepot.com)



Southern Railway 2-8-8-2 #4053 (1946) (from: www.yesteryeardepot.com)



Sir Doug Your early visit began the day with a return to “normalcy,” something I wondered about given the festivities of last evening.[swg] Interesting selections.[tup]

Sir Rob You have been more than noticed by your absence. In counting the “core” from past times, my guess is you are the only one left. Et tu, Rob[?] Hope not![swg]


How about a large, hot coffee with a “splash,’ just to make it interesting![swg] And of course, a round for the boys![tup]


BK in beautiful Alberta, Canada’s high country!
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 11:07 AM
Theme for the Day! - Theme for the Day!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #74

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Southern Railway (SOU) in a 1956 advertisement from my private collection:



WANT TO PUT IT DOWN IN A SMALL TOWN?

MORE AND MORE industries do – because many small towns offer big opportunities for efficient operations and profitable growth. We believe this is particularly true in the South today - - where modern, mechanized farming has made available in many areas a supply of intelligent, high caliber, native-born men and women who can be quickly and economically trained to the skills of industry.

Living and working in one of the Southland’s friendly and uncongested semi-rural areas offers many other advantages, too. We know – because hundreds of the communities that we serve have a population of 5,000 or less.

Our Industrial Development Department now has a detailed, up-to-date catalogue of all the resources of every incorporated community along the Southern. One of our small towns may be just the spot for your factory. Let us tell you more!

Look Ahead – Look South!”

Harry A. DeButts
President

SOUTHERN RAILWAY SYSTEM
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Washington, D.C. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . The Southern Serves the South . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

Theme for the Day! - Theme for the Day!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 10:00 AM
Now arriving on track #1 …..
Railroads from Yesteryear! Number Ten

Southern Railway (SOU)



Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

Locale: U.S. Southern states

Reporting marks: SOU

Dates of operation: 1894 – 1982

Track gauge: 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm) (standard gauge)

Headquarters: Washington, D.C.

The Southern Railway (AAR reporting mark SOU) was the product of nearly 150 predecessor lines that were combined, reorganized and recombined beginning in the 1830s, formally becoming the Southern Railway in 1894. It was combined with the Norfolk and Western Railway to form the Norfolk Southern Railway in 1982.

History


1921 map

The nine-mile South Carolina Canal and Rail Road, Southern's earliest predecessor line and one of the first railroads in the United States, was chartered in December 1827 and ran the nation's first regularly scheduled steam powered passenger train – the wood-burning Best Friend of Charleston – out of Charleston, South Carolina, on December 25, 1830. (The Baltimore and Ohio Railroad ran regular passenger service earlier that year.) By 1833, its 136-mile line to Hamburg, SC, was the longest in the world.

As railroad fever struck other Southern states, networks gradually spread across the South and even across the Allegheny Mountains. Charleston, South Carolina and Memphis, TN, were linked by 1857, although rail expansion halted with the start of the Civil War. The York River Railroad, which operated from the Pamunkey River at West Point, Virginia to Richmond, Virginia, was a major focus of George McClellan's 1862 Peninsular Campaign, which culminated in the Seven Days Battles and devastated the tiny rail link. The Richmond and Danville Railroad was the Confederacy's last link to Richmond, and transported Jefferson Davis and his cabinet to Danville, Virginia just before the fall of Richmond in April 1865.

Known as the "first railroad war," the Civil War left the South's railroads and economy devastated. Most of the railroads, however, were repaired, reorganized and operated again. In the area along the Ohio River and Mississippi River, construction of new railroads continued throughout Reconstruction.

Southern Railway, as it came into existence in 1894, was a combination of the Richmond and Danville system and the East Tennessee, Virginia and Georgia Railroad. The company owned two-thirds of the 4,400 miles of line it operated, and the rest was held through leases, operating agreements and stock ownership. Southern also controlled the Alabama Great Southern and the Georgia Southern and Florida, which operated separately, and it had an interest in the Central of Georgia.

Southern's first president, Samuel Spencer, drew more lines into Southern's core system. During his 12-year term, the railway built new shops at Knoxville, TN, and Atlanta, GA and purchased more equipment. He moved the company's service away from an agricultural dependence on tobacco and cotton and centered its efforts on diversifying traffic and industrial development. Sadly, Spencer was killed in train wreck in 1906.

By the time the line from Meridian, Mississippi, to New Orleans, LA was acquired in 1916 under Southern's president Fairfax Harrison, the railroad had attained the 8,000-mile, 13-state system that marked its territorial limits for almost half a century.

The Central of Georgia became part of the system in 1963, and the former Norfolk Southern Railway was acquired in 1974.

Notable features


1895 map

Southern and its predecessors were responsible for many firsts in the industry. Its predecessor, the South Carolina Canal and Rail Road, was the first to carry passengers, U.S. troops and mail on steam-powered trains, and it was the first to operate at night. In 1953, Southern Railway became the first major railroad in the United States to convert totally to diesel-powered locomotives, ending its rich history in the golden age of steam.

Every diesel locomotive Southern owned had to be ordered with a high hood and pointed long hood forward, this was meant for crew safety in case of accidents with vehicles and from the first GP7 to the last GP50, they came with this option until the tradition stopped with the SD50.

From dieselization and shop and yard modernization, to computers and the development of special cars and the unit coal train, Southern often was on the cutting edge of change, earning the company its catch phrase, "The Railway System that Gives a Green Light to Innovations".

Merger into Norfolk Southern

In response to the creation of CSX in 1980, the Southern Railway merged with Norfolk and Western Railway to form the Norfolk Southern Railway, further consolidating railroads in the eastern half of the United States.

Roads owned by the Southern Railway

• Alabama Great Southern Railroad (AGS)
• Central of Georgia Railway (CofG)
• Cincinnati New Orleans and Texas Pacific Railway (CNO&TP)
• Georgia and Florida Railway (G&F)
• Georgia Northern Railway (GANO) — acquired in 1967
• Georgia Southern and Florida Railway (GS&F)
• Knoxville and Charleston Railroad
• Tennessee, Alabama and Georgia Railway (TA&G)

Major Railroad Yards on the Southern Railway

• Chattanooga, Tennessee – DeButts Yard (formerly Citico Yard)
• Atlanta, Georgia – Inman Yard
• Linwood, North Carolina – Spencer Yard
• Birmingham, Alabama – Norris Yard
• Knoxville, Tennessee – Sevier Yard
• Macon, Georgia – Brosnan Yard
• Sheffield, Alabama – Sheffield Yard

Company officers

Presidents of the Southern Railway:

• Samuel Spencer (1894–1906)
• William Finley (1906–1913)
• Fairfax Harrison (1913–1937)
• Earnest E. Norris (1937–1951)
• Harry A. DeButts (1951–1962)
• D. William Brosnan (1962–1967)
• W. Graham Claytor Jr. (1967–1977)
• L. Stanley Crane (1977–1980)
• Harold H. Hall (1980–1982)

References

• Norfolk Southern Railway. Retrieved February 22, 2005.


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

Did you miss any of the previous nine[?] Click the URL:

#1: Baltimore & Ohio (B&O
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=233&TOPIC_ID=35270
#2: Chesapeake & Ohio (C&O)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=234&TOPIC_ID=35270
#3: Pennsylvania (PRR)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=237&TOPIC_ID=35270
#4: New York Central (NYC)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=240&TOPIC_ID=35270
#5: New Haven (NYNH&H)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=242&TOPIC_ID=35270
#6: Santa Fe (ATSF) (Two Parts)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=246&TOPIC_ID=35270
#7: Southern Pacific (SP)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=253&TOPIC_ID=35270
#8: Northern Pacific (NP)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=259&TOPIC_ID=35270
#9: Coastline/Seaboard (ACL – SCL – SAL) (Two Parts)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=267&TOPIC_ID=35270
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 8:28 AM
Good Morning CM3

That Post of yours ranks right up there with one of the best, by far, that we've been treated to on this Thread. Thanx![tup][tup][tup] Undoubtedly if we still were "into" things like "awards," you'd win 'em all for that. But that was then and this is now.

Your efforts are quite like a needed shot of adrenalin for me, something to "kick start" the desire to keep this place operating. It's really guys like you who make it easy for guys like me to do the things necessary to provide a "place" for your talents. And, Sir, they are on display.[tup]

Back in 1950, I traveled from Mobile to NYC aboard a Southern train. Don't know what the "name" was, don't recall much other than it was a great experience. My mother and I had flown to Mobile to spend about 3 weeks with my father who was shipping out for Korea and the Inchon landing. Anyway, we took the train back and it was a blast for a 12 year old, fer sure, fer sure. The schedule you provided, even though much before our trip, reminded me of those times. I do recall boarding the train in the early afternoon and getting into Penn Station around mid-morning. So, perhaps that scheule was pretty much the same in 1950 too. Maybe the train was indeed the Crescent.[wow]

With three weeks in Mobile, I do recall those rains you described very accurately. Your way with words really brought home many, many recollections and I appreciate them very much.

We should be buying YOU the rounds and giving YOU the quarters![swg]

Thanx![tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo

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