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Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 11:34 PM
I figured that since it's still tuesday that I would put a small meger bit of Southern info out to just cap off another successfull theme day.

As Tom stated in his first post the Southern was known for it's idosyncracies regarding locomotives, the High hood options being bought on everything as well haveing everything set up for long hood forward operation.Even merger partner NW tended to purchase and set up there locomotives this way as well, one would think it may have had something to do with both railroads being run by the Claytor Bros. Graham as the Southerns leader was also instrumental in the 30 yeasr of excursion steam trains on the Southern, which was uncerimoniously ended by the NS management in the early 90's with the final units NW's J 611 and artuiculated A class 1218 being the last two, these incidentkly spearheaded by NW Pres Robert Claytor. From 1964 to 1990 one could see many a steam locomotive pulling excursion trains along the Southern to the delight of railfans far and wide.

Southern Steam Excursion Locomotives 1964-1990

Ms class Mikado 4501 ( rebuilt 1964-66 by Tennessee Valley museum in Chatanooga )
1967 Consolidations 630 , and 722 aquired from the East Tennessee & Western NC ( traded two RS2's for them )
Savanha and Atlanta 4-6-2 750 was borrowed from the Atlanta NRHS in 1976 and ran with 630,and 722
Ex Texas and Pacific 2-10-4 610 was also leased in 1976
CPR Royal Hudson 2839 was leased in 1979 ( from Steamtown-parts from this loco were used by CP to rebuild 2816 )
In 1979 ex C&O Kanawha 2-8-4 2716 was leased and used until 1982 when the firebox gave out.
In 1983 NW J 611 was rebuilt and began excursion service
in 1987 NW A class 2-6-6-4 was rebuilt and entered service

Shortly thereafter the steam program was cancelled.

Rob
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 5:22 AM

(courtesy: www.trainweb.org)

We open at 6 AM (all time zones!). (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Wednesday is here! Time to start up with a cuppa Joe, some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and of course a selection from our Menu Board for a <light> or <traditional> breakfast![tup]


Daily Wisdom

Seated in the backseat of a car when the rains began to fall, Yogi said, “Where’s that coming from?”[swg]
(yogi-ism)


Info for the Day:

Canadian Railways of the past – Hudson Bay Railways (HBRY) arrives Thursday – watch for it!

* Weekly Calendar:

TODAY: Pike Perspective’s Day!
Thursday: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: St. Patrick’s Day – Special Menu!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday

SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) comechtech Dennis Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 02:32:06 (275) Early AM visit

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 05:20:23 (275) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(3) barndad Doug Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 05:25:02 (275) AM visit, info & joke

(4) passengerfan Al Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 06:38:46 (276) Streamliner #74 – Crescent Ltd

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 07:10:07 (276) RR from Yesteryear en route!

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 07:37:49 (276) Acknowledgments, etc.

(7) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 08:08:16 (276) Theme for the Day! Southern Railway

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 08:28:19 (276) reply to: coalminer3

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 10:00:01 (276) RR from Yesteryear – Southern (SOU{

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 11:07:06 (276) Theme for the Day! Southern – Ad: 1956

(11) BudKarr BK Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 12:52:57 (276) Theme for the Day! Pix, etc.

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 13:37:35 (276) Theme for the Day! Southern – Ad: 1956

(13) passengerfan Al Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 14:11:26 (276) Theme for the Day! Streamlined sleeping cars

(14) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 14:24:07 (276) Theme for the Day! Southern Pix, etc.

(15) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 14 Mar 2006 , 14:48:52 (276) Theme for the Day! Name trains

(16) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 15:51:50 (276) Theme for the Day! Southern – Ad: 1955

(17) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 18:41:41 (276) Acknowledgments & Comments

(18) passengerfan Al Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 19:10:22 (276) Theme for the Day! Streamlined observations

(19) barndad Doug Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 20:09:59 (276) Inclusive Post & articles & joke

(20) comechtech Dennis Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 20:52:44 (276) PM visit

(21) comechtech Dennis Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 21:48:21 (276) etc.

(22) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 23:11:01 (276) Inclusive Post

(23) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Mar 2006, 23:34:29 (276) Theme for the Day! Steam Excursion Locos



NOW SHOWING:

The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre
Double Features! Now with The Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, March 12th thru 18th: Mystery Alaska (1999) starring: Russell Crowe, Hank Azaria & Mary McCormack –and- Slap Shot (1977) starring: Paul Newman – Strother Martin & Michael Ontkean. SHORT: Beer and Pretzels (1933).


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 5:34 AM
Good morning Tom and all! I'll have 2 light breakfasts please. We're back to being cold in these parts, after some very windy days. Hopefully this will be the last cold snap of the year. I see that Rob finished off our Southern theme last night, and at least from this end, I thought we had a succesful day. Today is a busy one for me, with work and the dreaded quarterly condo board meeting tonight. It's the kind of day I can't wait to see end. Bummer for me, but hopefully not you. Here's my Pike submission and traditional groaner:

Two Million Locomotive Models by Thomas T. Taber Oct. 1936 Railroad Stories

The kingdom of the model fans is divided into two parts. There are the scale model makers and owners, who are satisfied with only the most accurate reproduction of detail, down to the last spring leaf and staybolt; and there is the vast army of toy and tin-plate owners, some of whom haven’t the time or money and others who haven’t the inclination to become scale model men. What could be a more insurmountable job, we ask you, than the task of creating a new kind of model that will sell to both groups?

To J.F. Strombeck the question is beside the point. He has succeeded in manufacturing and selling two million locomotive models which are not only priced to appeal to the toy train world, but which are so accurate and attractive that not even the sternest railroad or model enthusiast can find anything but praise for them. The point is that when Mr. Strombeck began he knew nothing about the division of model fans; and his decision to manufacture wooden scale reproductions of locomotives, he admits, was almost accidental.

His firm, the Strombeck-Becker Co., was founded in 1911, and began its life in a small frame building in Moline, Il., where it manufactured wooden handles and other types or turned wood specialties. When molded plastics, such as Bakelite, came into vogue, the demand for many types of wood turnings fell off, and Mr. Becker had to discover some new thing to manufacture. Wooden toys, he decided, were the thing, and wooden toys of various types, including doll houses, were made. Although business picked up, it didn’t pick up enough; and the other officers of the company got together to find a solution.

The meeting adjourned up a blind alley, and Mr. Becker started home to forget the cares of his business for at least one weekend. On the way he was blocked by a train on a crossing. While waiting for it to pass, as he had done many times before, he unconsciously watched the cars and waited for the engine. Like Archimedes in the bathtub, the question and the answer came to him all at once. What was it that he had never lost interest in, and that everyone, regardless of age, turns to admire? The answer was simple: Trains!

There were hasty telephone calls, another meeting, and before the Sabbath was over the toy designer had instructions to go forth into the Rock Island yards with camera, rule, and sketch pencil. After that production began. Before long a line of durable wooden toy trains appeared. Realistic, accurately painted and lettered, they cost only a dime apiece; and when they first appeared in 1929, they took the toy market by storm.

But that was just the beginning. Two years ago Mr. Strombeck visited a “Wings of a Century” pageant at the Chicago World’s Fair, and it impressed him so much that he sent his toy designer to attend it. The historic engines there caught the fancy of the designer, so he made reproductions of them. Mr. Strombeck admired them immensely, but when he figured the cost of turning out something of the sort on a quantity basis, he regretfully had to put it aside. It would sell for too much.

A few days later, his son came in the factory to see him. “Say, dad,” he said, “you can buy airplanes in kits, ready to be put together; and boats, too, but I’ve never seen a locomotive. Why can’t you make engines in parts, put them in a carton with some glue and instructions, and sell them?”

“Son,” replied the elated and proud father, “the only reason we haven’t done it is that you haven’t told me about it before.” From then on he concentrated on that idea. He went to a chain store executive and asked how many he thought a set of authentic wooden models, each knocked down in a carton, would sell at 25 cents apiece. We’ll try them,” was the non-committal answer. They did try them, and the public bought them – more than two million in a single year.

Soon there appeared a second series of six engines, and cars to go with them. And then, finally, the company met the demand for larger and more complete models at higher prices. It turned them out at prices up to a dollar, and put a two-foot-long Hudson type on the market at two dollars. The way it had sold has convinced Mr. Strombeck that there’s a big future in making accurate scale models.

One of the most important things about these models, of course, is the fact that they aren’t ready-made. In taking the pieces from the carton, putting them together just right, and then painting the finished equipment lies half the fun.

The company outgrew its original quarters long ago, and today it owns a four-acre plant and employs 175 to 200 people. To the first wooden scale models of the old historic engines go much of the credit for its growth, and to its ability to unite the kingdom of modelmakers by appealing to their divergent tastes and ideas must go the credit for the rest.

[:I] A tourist walks into a curio shop in San Francisco. Looking around at the exotica, he notices a very lifelike, life-sized bronze statue of a rat. It has no price tag, but is so striking he decides he must have it. He took it to the owner: "How much for the bronze rat?"
"Twelve dollars for the rat, one hundred dollars for the story," said the owner. The tourist gave the man twelve dollars. "I'll just take the rat, you can keep the story." As he walked down the street carrying his bronze rat, he noticed that a few real rats had crawled out of the alleys and sewers and began following him down the street. This was disconcerting; he began walking faster. But within a couple blocks, the herd of rats behind him had grown to hundreds, and they began squealing. He began to trot toward the Bay, looking around to see that the rats now numbered in the MILLIONS, and were squealing and coming toward him faster and faster. Concerned, even scared, he ran to the edge of the Bay and threw the bronze rat as far out into the Bay as he could. Amazingly, the millions of rats all jumped into the Bay after it, and were all drowned.
The man walked back to the curio shop. "Ah ha," said the owner, "You have come back for the story?"
"No," said the man, "I came back to see if you have a bronze politician?" [:I]
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Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:15 AM
Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Just Time for a Coffee and a Crumpet.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER #75

PANAMA LIMITED IC Trains 5-6 May 3, 1942 Chicago – New Orleans overnight All-Pullman 921.1 miles 16 hours 30 minutes

The PANAMA LIMITED was the pride of the Illinois Central and the only all Pullman train operated by the IC. It was placed in overnight service between Chicago and New Orleans with through cars to and from St. Louis being added to the southbound, and set out by the northbound at Carbondale, Illinois beginning May 1, 1942. The new lightweight streamlined diesel powered trains replaced heavyweight steam powered PANAMA LIMITED trains on that date. The new streamliners were painted in another paint scheme this time Chocolate Brown, Orange and Yellow. This paint scheme would be the one adopted as the permanent scheme for all future IC streamliners. The paint scheme on the diesels would be simplified on future units but it utilized the same colors. The PANAMA LIMITED was one of an elite group of lightweight all Pullman streamlined trains consisting of the PRR BROADWAY LIMITED, PRR LIBERTY LIMITED, PRR SPIRIT OF ST. LOUIS, SP LARK, NYC TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED, AT&SF CHIEF, and AT&SF SUPER CHIEF. Of these trains only the PANAMA LIMITED and SUPER CHIEF were diesel powered. The initial schedule imposed on the PANAMA LIMITED was eighteen hours in either direction. The new PANAMA LIMITED train sets would provide yeoman service during WW II and for many years after. Power for the new streamliners came from EMD in the form of a pair of E6A units for each train set. The cars were all built by Pullman Standard except for the two head end cars in each train set these were rebuilt and streamlined by the IC Railroads own Burnside shops in Chicago.

CONSIST ONE

4000 EMD E6A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

4002 EMD E6A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1901 LAKE MICHIGAN Baggage 17-Crew Dormitory Car

CITY OF JACKSON 18-Roomette Sleeping Car

BANANA ROAD 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

KING COAL 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

LAND O’STRAWBERRIES 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

GENERAL BEAUREGARD 3-Double Bedroom 1-Compartment 1-Drawing Room Bar 21-Seat Lounge Car

4101 EVANGELINE 32-Seat Dining 16-Seat Cocktail Lounge Cars

CHICAGOLAND 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car

PELICAN STATE 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

PRAIRIE STATE 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

TIMBERLAND 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

GULFPORT 2- Double Bedroom 2-Compartment 1-Drawing Room 26-Seat Lounge Observation

CONSIST TWO

4001 EMD E6A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

4003 EMD E6A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1902 LAKE PONCHARTRAIN Baggage 17-Crew Dormitory Car

CITY OF NEW ORLEANS 18-Roomette Sleeping Car

BLUE GRASS STATE 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

KING COTTON 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

MAGNOLIA STATE 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

GENERAL JACKSON 3-Double Bedroom 1-Compartment 1-Drawing Room Bar 21-Seat Lounge Car

4102 VIEUX CARRE 32-Seat Dining 16-Seat Cocktail Lounge Car

ST. LOUISIAN 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car

PETROLEUM 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

SUGARLAND 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

VOLUNTEER STATE 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

MEMPHIS 2-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment 1-Drawing Room 26-Seat Lounge Observation

The last two 6-6-4 sleeping cars in each consist operated as New Orleans - St. Louis cars dropped by the northbound PANAMA LIMITED at Carbondale and proceeding in a separate train to St. Louis.

In April, 1948 the IC shops rebuilt and streamlined the old heavyweight coach3160 into a 40-seat streamlined Parlor car numbered and named 3350 ILLINI. This parlor operated in the southbound PANAMA LIMITED nightly between Chicago and Carbondale. While the St. Louis – New Orleans sleepers were added the 3350 ILLINI was switched out. When the northbound PANAMA LIMITED arrived in Carbondale the next morning The 3350 ILLINI was added to the Chicago bound streamliner while the St. Louis sleepers were switched out.

Beginning January 1, 1950 the PANAMA LIMITED became the only overnight all Pullman train in North America to operate with two first class Parlor cars in its nightly journey. On that date a second parlor car 3351 CAPITOL STREET was added to the northbound PANAMA LIMITED between New Orleans and Jackson, Mississippi each evening returning the next morning in the southbound New Orleans bound PANAMA LIMITED from Jackson. The 3351 CAPITOL STREET was streamlined for the CITY OF NEW ORLEANS Louisville-Fulton connecting train originally as a coach – lounge car 3700 FULTON. When this connecting service ended the car was assigned first to general service and finally rebuilt to a 32-seat Parlor Car.

The PANAMA LIMITED trains were upgraded in 1950 with new 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom sleeping cars and Twin Unit Dining Cars. Since one of the Twin units was a Crew Dormitory Kitchen car the head end Baggage Crew Dormitory cars were withdrawn from the PANAMA LIMITEDS and replaced with baggage mail cars.

In 1953 new 11-Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars were added to the PANAMA LIMITED trains.

Between 1958 and 1965 used refurbished 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom, 10-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom and additional 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars were purchased from other roads. These cars were then assigned to the PANAMA LIMITED and CITY OF MIAMI.

In 1967 the IC timetable saw the birth of a new train the MAGNOLIA STAR an all coach overnight streamliner between Chicago and New Orleans. Upon closer examination one soon realized the PANAMA LIMITED had at last lost its All Pullman status. Yes, the MAGNOLIA STAR was nothing more than a Coach and Tavern Lounge car added to the PANAMA LIMITED.

In 1970 the St. Louis – Carbondale section was discontinued and one year later with the birth of Amtrak the PANAMA LIMITED was no more.

TTFN AL
  • Member since
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  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:33 AM
Good Morning!

Another nice day with continuing blue skies, and temps just above freezing. “They” tell us we’ll have a couple of weeks of below-average temps, then spring gets sprung!

Yesterday’s RRs from Yesteryear “theme” for the Southern Railway was well received. THANX to Doug - BK – Lars – Rob - CM3 ‘n Al we had quite an outpouring from the guys.[tup][tup][tup] Now, THAT’s the way to do it![yeah] So much better than “Posting into the wind,” so to speak.[swg]

My only “wish” is that somehow we could get 20 Fingers to “open up a bit” and “speak” to the guys. But, “we takes, what we gets!”[swg]

So, what’s the deal with Theodorebear Ted, nickinwestwales Nick, West Coast S Dave ‘n Trainnut484 Russell[?][?] All now well entrenched in the “former regulars” category and in ‘n out of the Legion of the Lost! Pity. We’ll be here, whenever it is you find your way back . . . unfortunately, much too much material has passed you by.[tdn]

Rob Appreciate your late night Posts! Nice work with the “theme” input as well.[tup] Email received and a response is en route. RR Book Relay! book was sent to you by Doug last week – don’t know the exact date. Watch for it . . .

Doug Nice input for our “Pike Perspectives Day” – hope to get something of my own Posted this AM.

I’ve avoided getting involved in our subdivision “leadership” for the 16 years I’ve lived here. I look at those organizations as the lowest rung on the “political ladder,” far too many agendas and personalities for me to deal with. I don’t deal with that stuff well at all![swg] Anyway, I figure with 32 years of active duty military, a few years of being with the local police department and six years of working for and with my state rep/senator – I’ve done my share for my community, state and nation.

Dennis I see you are “getting there” with the Posts. Take your time, “pardner,” there’s lots of info to catch up on as well as the routine. If you are looking for something like a one-on-one exchange (aka: Instant Messenger) ‘round here, it hardly ever happens. As mentioned yesterday, there just aren’t times when one can ‘count on’ having people to interact with. Just Post your thoughts, acknowledgments, etc. and see what happens. Just remember the “precepts!” and you’ll be fine.[swg]

Above all – for all – to get ACKNOWLEDGED one must ACKNOWLEDGE.[tup]

BK ‘n Lars I appreciate your support and without the both of you, we’d have a far different environment ‘round here. The past several weeks have been a bit “rough” on Moi. You guys have “been there” during the droughts and slack times, and it shows.[tup][tup][tup]


Okay, boyz, I’ll be here for the day!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


Stick around a few minutes AFTER POSTING - The information you MISS may be for YOU!

Those who acknowledge the other guy, get acknowledged!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:56 AM
Good Morning Guys!

Here's something for Pike Perspectives Day that was first Posted on Jan 11th . . .



Click on the URL for a larger version:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b222/siberianmo/Novelties/?action=view¤t=f80efa87.jpg
Enjoy![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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  • From: WV
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Posted by coalminer3 on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:08 AM
Good Morning Barkeep and All Assembled; coffee, please; round for the house, and $ for the jukebox. Temps in the low 30s here today, light snow, high winds, and gas went up to $2.50 yesterday - maybe the barges got stuck in the ice after the cold front went by.

Lots of Southern material and mannnny other interesting items posted yesterday. Also, thanks for the stories and the IC information.

I am grateful for the heads up from our 'steamed proprietor on the theme of the week as it gives the CM3 research dept. time to dig up material.

A couple of comments.

I was quite interested in the picture of Harrisonburg in 1947. That line runs from Manassas to Harrisonburg via Front Royal. Those of us who have the fortune(?) to go to DC now and then know that I-66 affords good views, especially when the leaves are off the trees. IMHO, the whole area's going downhill account urban sprawl and condominiumization (hey, a new word!) - I'll stop of that b4 I get sent to the Rat's Room for political reeducation.

The Southern and constituent lines had a variety of 4-8-2s.

Those belonging to SOU, CNO&TP, and AGS were all built by Baldwin between 1917 and 1919. They had 27x28 cylinders and 69-inch drivers. Tractive effort varied a little bit from series to series.

C of G had several series of 4-8-2s as well; most of these were built by Richmond between 1919 and 1925. C of G also purchased five 4-8-2s from Baldwin in 1929. Again, these had 27x28 cylinders and 69-inch drivers.

The 4-8-2s mentioned above all went through various r# and modifications as you might expcet. Most of these mechanical changes resulted in slight increases in steam pressure and tractive effort.

BTW, the first 4-8-2s were built for the C&O at Richmond in 1911-1912. Our 'steamed proprietor will be pleased to know that the Missouri Pacific and the Rock Island were the ne next two 4-8-2 customers. The MP's first Mountians were built in 1913 by Schenectady, and the Rock Islands were blt. by Schenectady also in 1913.

Well, I didn't intend for this to become a steam locomotive seminar. Sorry,Boris, you'll have to put away the slash bar for another time. However, I do think the Hickory cap, bandana, long spouted oil can, cuff garters, gauntlets, and goggles do add a class touch to his usual attire.

Now as for pike perspectives - Strombecker? Wow!!!

I remember building some of their kits. They had model airplanes - solid wood, IIRC; and they also had model trains as well as mentioned in the post. I remember building a Rock Island Rocket train from those kits. The kits consisted of wooden cores aith paper overlays which you carefully cut out and pasted onto the core. I well remember cataching several kinds of grief from my mom because I high graded her best sewing scissors to cut out the locomotive sides and the car sides - it was not a pretty sight, boys! I pled ignorance and you know what that got me!

The locomotive was a representation of a RI E unit - maroon, red and silver; there were several different kinds of cars, As I said, the modeler cut out the car sides and pasted them onto the core; somewhat similar to what's done today with certain high end passenger car kits. The cars were silver to represent stainless steel equipment. All in all, it didn't look that bad, although it was certainly an odd scale - if you could clal it that. I am really reaching back here, but I seem to recall that these kits came with casein glue which you mixed up and used to assemble everything.

work safe

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 10:51 AM
G'day Gents,

Sorry, but I had to edit that Post of mine with the model railroad logos - seems that the URL somehow "changed" and didn't "go" to the right place. Some the "RR Book Relay" Pix comes up, but not all of the time!! [%-)][%-)][%-)] PhotoBucket strikes again! Just don't get it with them .... I hate to think about how much work it is going to be for me to transfer everything over to RailImages. Argggggggggggggggggggggh![tdn]

Nice dissertation on the model kits, CM3. I can recall having a few 'sessions' when I was a kid over misuse of my mom's scissors.<grin> However, this German-Irish lady was a big-time user of "stick." And guess where it was applied[?]<frown>

Some elaboration: There was an orange "stick" (probably an old broom or mop handle) in the ktichen, left over from the days when we had a coal fired stove. When converted to kerosene, the "stick" remained. My mom found good use for it, as mentioned, and to this day, orange "sticks" bode bad memories![swg]

Good stuff on the steam loco's, for which I have very little knowledge. Insofar as the MoPac 'n Rock Island are concerned, I really haven't any particular connection to either. For when they were up and roarin', I lived elsewhere. However, I do model the MoPac on my S-Capades layout![swg]

Appreciate the round and quarters. Coal Scuttle has a way to go in order to replenish what has been expended during our two most recent Bashes![tup]

Later![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Alberta's Canadian Rockies
  • 331 posts
Posted by BudKarr on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 1:35 PM
Good Afternoon Captain Tom and all assembled!

I see that today is yet another special day, hobby day or more appropriately, “Pike Perspective’s Day.” Well, I am not yet into that aspect of it all, and doubt that I will become a hobbyist per se, however, not to be “wet blanket,” I do have something to contribute. First, however, I will have a Southern Comfort on the rocks if you please and one for my lady!

Rather quiet thus far, although from the “count,” yesterday was quite successful. Appears as if the overwhelming majority of participants had something to offer for the “theme” of the Southern Railway. That was your objective and I would say you reached it! Kudos to one and all![tup]

Now to my submission (from Wikipedia, of course![swg])

Lionel Trains

QUOTE: The MPC (General Mills) era

The bankrupt Lionel Corporation sold the tooling for its then-current product line and licensed the Lionel name to General Mills in 1969, who then operated Lionel as a division of its subsidiary Model Products Corporation. General Mills did not buy the company, however. The Lionel Corporation became a holding company and invested in a number of ventures, including what would eventually become an East Coast chain of toy stores known as "Lionel Leisure World."

Due to General Mills' cost-cutting measures, production of Lionel-branded toy and model trains returned to profitability, but sometimes at the expense of quality. Detail was often sacrificed, and most of the remaining metal parts were replaced with molded plastic. A number of MPC's changes to the product line endure to the present day, the most noticeable being the use of needlepoint axles and trucks made of Delrin, two changes made to reduce friction and allow longer trains. Also starting in 1973, MPC experimented with a line of cars it called "Standard O," which were scaled to 1:48 (most postwar Lionel and MPC production was undersize for O scale). The experiment's failure is generally blamed on MPC's lack of a 1:48 locomotive and caboose to go with the cars; when it was repeated again in the 1980s with locomotives of appropriate size, it proved more successful.

An internal reorganization after 1973 caused Lionel to become part of General Mills' Fundimensions group. Although Lionel's tenure with MPC was relatively short, "MPC" is the most commonly used term for the 1970-1985 era.

In 1979, General Mills resurrected the American Flyer brand and product line, which Lionel Corporation had purchased from its bankrupt competitor (The A. C. Gilbert Company of New Haven, Connecticut) several months prior to its own bankruptcy in 1967. American Flyer products by Gilbert made after World War II are scaled roughly to a 1:64 proportion and are known as S gauge; their most distinctive feature, however, is that they operate on two-rail track as opposed to Lionel's three-rail trackage system.

With so many years of absence from the market, Gilbert American Flyer S gauge trains were no longer considered a direct competitor to Lionel's 1:48 proportion O gauge trains. To this day, Lionel markets American Flyer S gauge in limited quantities as collectibles.
The year 1982 brought General Mills' ill-fated move of train production from the United States to Mexico. Some Lionel fans were angry simply because the trains had been made in the United States for more than 80 years, while others criticized the quality of the Mexican-produced trains. Lionel production returned to the United States by 1984. During this time, corporate offices were retained at the company's Mount Clements (later, Chesterfield), Michigan, location.

When General Mills spun off its Kenner-Parker division in 1985, Lionel became part of Kenner-Parker. Lionel was sold again in 1986, this time to toy-train collector / real estate developer Richard P. Kughn of Detroit, Michigan.

The Kughn era

Kughn was a prolific toy train collector who said that his friends joked that the only thing his collection lacked was the company who made them. Kughn believed that if he moved production to Detroit, it would be possible to improve quality to a level characteristic of the original Lionel Corporation and still maintain profitability.

After his purchase, Kughn founded a company called Lionel Trains to continue the brand, and Lionel Trains Inc. opened a plant in Chesterfield, Michigan. In 1989 Lionel Trains introduced a locomotive featuring realistic electronically-produced sounds.

During this time frame, Lionel began producing new products based on designs from the Post-War era, when its popularity was at its peak. Additionally, some offerings began to depart from Lionel's toy-like design and place more emphasis on scale realism and detail, mirroring MPC's earlier "Standard O" experiments but to a larger degree.

Lionel also began selling reproductions of its designs that dated from the period before World War II, mostly in Standard Gauge. These products were made by MTH Electric Trains using original Lionel Corporation tooling, which had been sold at bankruptcy in the late 1960s after sitting unused for decades. This arrangement ended in the early 1990s after a disagreement between Kughn and MTH owner Mike Wolf.

The year 1993 brought Kughn's Lionel an opportunity. The original Lionel Corporation had recovered after the sale of its trains and survived as an entirely separate entity, operating a successful chain of retail toy stores for 24 years and becoming for a time the second-largest toy retailer in the country. However, it went bankrupt in the early 1990s under increased competition and liquidated in 1993, allowing the train manufacturer to purchase the Lionel trademark after years of operating as a licensee.

The Wellspring era

Lionel changed hands again in 1995, when Kughn sold controlling interest in the company to an investment group that included rock and roller Neil Young and holding company Wellspring Associates. The new company became known as Lionel LLC. The company continued marketing reproductions of its vintage equipment, and the trend towards producing new equipment that was ever-more-detailed (with a correspondingly higher price) continued.
Additionally, Young, who has a 20% stake in the company[1], helped finance the development of Trainmaster Command Control, a technology similar to Digital Command Control which permits, among other things, the operation of Lionel trains by remote control. In order to proliferate this standard, Lionel has licensed it to several of its competitors, including K-Line.

Lionel, LLC continued to manufacture and market trains and accessories in O scale under the Lionel brand and S gauge under the American Flyer brand. While most of the American Flyer product comprises re-issues using old Gilbert tooling from the 1950s, the O scale equipment is a combination of new designs and reissues. Lionel also ventured into HO scale at times during its history, with limited success.

In 2001, Lionel closed its last manufacturing plant in the United States, outsourcing production to Korea and China. While this move proved unpopular with some longtime fans, the backlash was minor in comparison to the failed move of production to Mexico in the 1980s. The company also licensed the Lionel name to numerous third parties, who have marketed various Lionel-branded products since 1995.

The 2004 Christmas movie Polar Express, based on the children's book of the same name, provided Lionel with its first hit in years. Lionel produced a train set based on the movie, and stronger-than-anticipated demand caused highly publicized shortages. Various news stories told of a reporter's quest to locate a set, and some dealers marked the prices up above the suggested retail price of $229. Sets turned up on eBay with buy-it-now prices of $449 as Lionel ordered an additional production run but said it would not be able to deliver the additional sets until March of the following year. Although many criticized Lionel for not producing more sets, Lionel's management called the set a great success.

This era was marked by legal troubles. In April 2000, competitor and former partner MTH Electric Trains filed a trade secret misappropriation lawsuit against Lionel, LLC, saying that one of Lionel's subcontractors had acquired plans for an MTH locomotive design and used them to design locomotives for Lionel. Additionally, on May 27, 2004, Union Pacific Railroad sued Athearn and Lionel for trademark infringement because both companies put the names and logos of UP, as well as the names and logos of various fallen flag railroads UP had acquired over the years, on their model railroad products without a license. While Athearn quickly settled and acquired a license, Lionel prepared to fight, arguing that it and its predecessor companies had been using the logos for more than 50 years and had been encouraged or even paid to do so.

The misappropriation lawsuit by MTH eventually went to trial, and on June 7, 2004, a jury in Detroit, Michigan found Lionel liable and awarded MTH $40,775,745. On November 1, 2004, a federal judge upheld the jury's decision. Lionel announced it would appeal, but two weeks later filed for bankruptcy.

In September 2004, the troubled company dismissed its CEO, Bill Bracy, and replaced him with Jerry Calabrese, a former Marvel Comics and NASCAR executive. Along with Bracy, another 17 high-level employees were also dismissed.

Bankruptcy

On November 15, 2004, Lionel, LLC filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, citing the $40 million-plus judgment in the MTH lawsuit as the primary factor. In the filing, it listed $55 million in debt and $42 million in assets. The largest secured creditor was PNC Financial Services Corp., owed $31 million. The MTH judgment was not included in the $55 million figure.

Collector value

The collector value of "modern era" Lionel trains has been limited compared to the trains produced by Lionel Corporation prior to 1969. There has been only limited collector interest in trains produced by this succession of entities, from MPC through to Lionel Trains Inc. and Lionel, LLC, especially if the items are in less than mint condition and do not include the original box. In addition, Lionel's reissues have somewhat decreased the collector value of even vintage Lionel and American Flyer equipment.

The MPC era is often derided, especially by fans of recent-production Lionel products that have better scale fidelity than the majority of MPC production and by fans of Lionel Corporation's postwar era. These critics often call MPC an acronym for "Mostly Plastic Crap." MPC has a small following due to the quality of the graphics, variety of roadnames produced, and play value. Others are attracted to MPC because of its low cost and the ease of finding MPC-produced train sets and accessories, often barely used, in its original packaging.


Must get a move on, as we are heading down the mountain (again!)

Best to all!

BK
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: northeast U.S.
  • 1,225 posts
Posted by LoveDomes on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:28 PM
Hello Tom and Gents at the bar!

Hope all is well with everyone. Things around here have stabilzed and appear to be heading back to normal. Tomorrow is the installation for our dehumidifier/air purifier unit that will be going into the basement. Really looking foward to some positive results.

Before I totally forget, a Lodge I belong to is marching in this year's St. Paddy's Day Parade in Manhattan. It's a traditional thing, even though the overwhelming majority of us are not Irish. What the heck - we can be, for one day, huh[?][swg] So, I will be unavailable for most of the day around here. I'll do my best to check in before heading over for the 'doings.'

Not to be outdone by my bookend, BK, I too have something from Wikipedia for Pike Perspective's Day! But before I get into it, let me say that yesterday's outpouring was terrific. I think you all made Tom feel a lot better than perhaps he had been. Good job, guys and let's try to remember that it takes more than just one or two to keep this wonderful idea alive and "up" on the forum.[tup[

How about one of those great looking hero sandwiches[?] Ya know, the same-o thing I always order![swg] A pitcher of brew - make it Schaefer with a frostly mug. [yeah]

Now, to the matter at hand:

QUOTE: American Flyer


This American Flyer S gauge 4-4-2 steam locomotive and tender dates from 1960

American Flyer was a popular brand of toy train and model railroad in the United States in the middle part of the 20th century.

The Chicago Era, 1907-1938

Although best remembered for the S gauge trains of the 1950s that it made as a division of the A. C. Gilbert Company, American Flyer was initially an independent company whose origins date back nearly a half century earlier. Chicago, Illinois-based toymaker William Frederick Hafner developed a clockwork motor for toy cars in 1901 while working for a company called Toy Auto Company. According to the recollections of William Hafner's son, John, he had developed a clockwork train running on O gauge track by 1905.

Hafner's friend, William Ogden Coleman, gained control of the Edmonds-Metzel Hardware Company, a struggling hardware manufacturer in Chicago, in 1906 or 1907. Hafner and Coleman began producing toy trains using Edmonds-Metzel's excess manufacturing capability after Hafner was able to secure $15,000 worth of orders. By 1907, two American retailers, G. Sommers & Co. and Montgomery Ward, were selling Edmonds-Metzel trains. In 1908, Edmonds-Metzel adopted the American Flyer brand name for the trains, and by 1910, Edmonds-Metzel was out of the hardware business and changed its name to American Flyer Manufacturing Company.

Initially American Flyer -- aka "Chicago Flyer" -- was something of a budget brand, undercutting the prices of Ives, which was at the time the market leader. The trains proved popular, and American Flyer was soon expanding its product line. However, the company's rapid growth led to strains in the relationship between Hafner and Coleman.

In 1913, Hafner left the company. Believing he would be given a significant portion of the company if the trains proved successful, Coleman refused when Hafner asked to exercise this option. Hafner started the Hafner Manufacturing Company, which sold a line of trains called Overland Flyer. Sommers immediately stopped carrying the American Flyer trains in favor of Hafner's brand. Initially, the Hafner and American Flyer product lines were very similar, suggesting they may have been built using the same tooling. This suggests the possibility of the two companies continuing to collaborate. Hafner's business surivived as a manufacturer of clockwork trains until 1951, when he sold his business to All Metal Products Company.

American Flyer's business grew during World War I, which locked out German manufacturers, which had dominated the U.S. toy train market to that point. During this time, American Flyer also introduced bicycle and motorcycle toys, segmented its market by creating both a low-priced and a high-priced line, and began to depart from its earlier designs by William Hafner.

In 1918, American Flyer introduced its first electric train, an O gauge model that was simply a windup model with an electric motor in place of the clockwork motor. This was a common practice at the time. The same year, William Coleman died and his son, William Ogden Coleman, Jr., took over the company.

In 1925, American Flyer began offering Wide gauge electric trains at a premium price, attempting to compete with Lionel Corporation at the high end of the market. Like most of its competition, American Flyer did well in the 1920s, selling more than half a million trains in its best years, but suffered in the Great Depression, during which the company's focus shifted back to the more economical O gauge trains.

In 1928, American Flyer's competitor Ives went bankrupt. American Flyer and Lionel jointly purchased and operated Ives until 1930, when American Flyer sold its share to Lionel. During this time of joint operation, American Flyer supplied Ives with car bodies and other parts.

During the early 1930s, American Flyer struggled under increased competition, especially at the low end of the market. In 1931, Flyer announced it would not produce an electric train set to sell for less than $4 like its competition had. However, within three months, it relented and released a train without transformer that sold for $3.95, and in 1932, it released a set with transformer that retailed for $3.50. Sales increased, but the company was not profitable. Expansion into other toy arenas also failed.
[edit]

A. C. Gilbert Company, 1938-1966

In 1938, W.O. Coleman sold American (Chicago) Flyer to Alfred Carlton Gilbert, a former Olympic pole vaulter who first made a name for himself in the toy industry earlier in the century when he created and manufactured Mysto Magic sets for youthful magicians. A few years later, his A. C. Gilbert Company also became the makers of Erector Set construction toys. The two toy magnates were just finishing shooting on Gilbert's game reserve in New Haven when Gilbert casually mentioned he was thinking about manufacturing toy trains. Instead, Coleman said he'd give his struggling American Flyer Co. to Gilbert in return for a share of the profits. Gilbert quickly agreed.

Gilbert soon moved the company from Chicago to New Haven, Connecticut, and re-designed the product line. He pioneereed the 3/16" to one foot (S-scale) variant of O gauge in 1939, in which the locomotive and car bodies are scaled to 1:64 scale, making them approximately 25% smaller than the standard 1:48 for O gauge while still running on the same type of three-rail track. This allowed the S-scale trains to navigate tighter 27-inch curves that would cause a conventional O gauge train to derail or jump the track. While this resulted in curves that were much tighter than those that appear in the real world and O27 gauge train cars that appeared "stubby" in length, it allowed more track in a smaller space.

By 1941, Gilbert had discontinued the earlier designs and advertised his new American Flyer products as "Every train 3/16" scale from front end to rear end." Some boxes were labeled "3/16 scale" and others labeled "Tru-Scale." As most prior trains from American Flyer and other manufacturers paid little attention to scale (proportional size mirroring the prototype), this new wrinkle made Gilbert American Flyer distinctive, as his cars at 1:64 were much closer to the prototypes on real railroads than the comparatively stubby 1:48 scale rolling stock that ran on O27 track.

At the same time, Gilbert also released a line of HO scale trains.

In 1946, after World War II, Gilbert discontinued manufacturing three-rail O gauge trains entirely in favor of the slightly (25%) smaller and more realistic S gauge and in the process eliminated the most unrealistic aspect of toy trains -- the center rail. His 3/16" American Flyer used two-rail track sized closer to 1:64 scale, or about seven-eighths inches between rails.

In order to further differentiate his product line from that of Lionel, Gilbert employed a bullet-shaped (link) coupler, but within a few years (1952), a newer, more realistic knuckle coupler design appeared. Flyer played up its improved realism and attention to details, with two-rail track and prototypical couplers, with Gilbert himself saying the design was inspired by his son's dissatisfaction with other toy trains available on the market. "Kids want realism," he said. His trains, which were closely proportioned to their prototypes, also had more detail elements than most O gauge competitors.

Although popular, American Flyer was always the No.2 brand to Lionel in terms of market share at the high end of the market. With Marx and a handful of other brands relegated to the low end of the market, Lionel and American Flyer shared premium status. A rivalry emerged between both companies' fans that continues today.

Like Lionel, Gilbert was caught off guard by the popularity of HO scale trains that offered better realism at a lower price than its American Flyer S gauge products. But the true reason for the demise of the toy train industry was the changing interests of American youth. A new technology called television was taking the place of many traditional hobbies, and the toy market was subject to the success of unpredictable overnight fads like the Hula-Hoop and yo-yo. Kids were also eschewing their Lionel and American Flyer trains in favor of remote-control slot car racing sets.

Finally, the national phenomena of the discount store craze was ravaging toy train companies' traditional distrubution network -- mom-and-pop hobby shops -- and sending them into financial oblivion. The discount stores demanded train sets at a low wholesale price and refused to offer the personal attention and repair services of the hobby shop. In order to get product on the shelves of discounters, toy train manufacturers cheapened their lines to get the price point down on sets -- which exacerbated the downward economic spiral. Longtime train collectors and hobbyists were offended at this newer production, dismissing the new products as "cheap junk," an accurate description.

These problems were compounded by the death of its founder, A.C. Gilbert in 1961. With the popularity of toy trains and construction toys declining, and without another successful product line to buoy the company's finances, Gilbert found itself in serious financial trouble. Finally, a majority of the company was sold by the family to a holding company, the Wrather Group, in 1962 with A.C. Gilbert, Jr., acting as CEO. Within a few months, though, A.C. Jr., died. The company continued to manufacture trains of limited appeal, thanks to the questionable quality.

Under the new ownership, the A.C. Gilbert Co. continued to struggle, although the new owners took a more aggressive approach to advertising and marketing than when the firm was headed by the more conservative A.C. Gilbert. It manufactured a wide variety of poorly-designed and poorly-conceived toys (dolls, racing sets, games) that sold slowly, if at all, and was nearly overwhelmed by store returns of defective merchandise. Gilbert took an especially-hard hit when a majority of a poorly-designed and manufacturered James Bond 007 slot car racing set flooded back as returns after component failures. In addition, the company delivered many of its toy line products to discounters with a "100% sale guarantee." When the merchandise didn't sell through, it ended up back in Gilbert's warehouses. The company discontinued the American Flyer train line in 1966 and finally declared bankruptcy in 1967.


Hope you enjoyed it![tup]

Until the next time!

Lars
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 3:11 PM
G'day Gents!

Nice work from our bookends! [swg] Amazing - have you guys checked your individual "numbers count"[?] You're so close that one would think you are joined at the hip![swg]

Really liked that AF Pix - brought back some memories. Not so much of that particular loco, but of those "white walls" on the drivers. The trains of my youth - 40s & early 50s looked so "cool" with them. Only AF did it that way.

I too have some plans for this weekend and it begins for me on Friday as well. I'll be making myself scarce from about 10 AM on . . . so, hopefully there will be a few left to keep things going. But, this time I'm not asking for help - just going to let it go and see what happens over the weekend. Not even sure that I'm going to post Pix this Sunday - haven't made up my mind yet. One thing I'm not going to do is babysit this Thread or the other one. Nope.

As a kid my Boy Scout Troop used to march in all of the NYC major parades, including St. Pat's Day! I'm one quarter Irish (mother's mother was from County Cork, I believe - father from Germany). Anyway, that was one big day in NYC and long before I recognized that so many simply use the occasion to get themselves blitzed, it really was a fun time. So, Lars wear your best Norwegian attire, and let 'em have it![swg]

Getting back to the toy trains for a bit, I noticed that Lionel is being sued again by MTH. Without getting into it here, there's lotsa ongoing diatribes and stuff on the other Forums for those interested.

Okay, Gents - thanx again for the Posts and taking the time to swing by. Also noticed that you both Posted on "my other thread," so a double THANX is in order![tup][tup]

BK Pehaps you should consider an incline railway for that trip up 'n down the mountainside!<grin>


Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: mid mo
  • 1,054 posts
Posted by pwolfe on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 4:50 PM
Hi Tom and all.

A large Bathams and most certainly a round for the great Southern Day yesterday.

Managed to get the last two pages although the puter is terribly slow hopefully this will change Friday, even got the photos and the maps.I think it has been suffering from a hangover from Monday,s great bash.

Great to see AL back to full form. The Panama Limited sure had some interesting car names.

CM3 Many thanks for the train details and the Southern steam details. May I say how much I enjoyed the post. I could almost smell the rain on the railroad. Marvellous.

Many thanks for the steam loco photos BK and LARS. The Southern engines were certainly handsome machines and the green livery seem to suit them very well. I think the tender design seem to suit and complement the locos which is not always the case. Liked the list of the Named Trains as well.

ROB Good list of the Southern Steam locos.

DOUG Two very heartwarming Southern stories from the Railroad mag. and the boxcar mystery earlier. A great start to Pikes day with the Mr Strombeck history a forerunner of the very popular plastic kits that were more popular in the UK.

Thanks BK and LARS for the Lionel And American Flyer info.

May I say HI to COMETECH DENNIS.

TOM An excellent Theme day yesterday. I give it four thumbs up but I dare not use the Smilie List to put them on the screen as I tried earlier and it got stuck.
We went to Pats Place last night and on the train, being sorted for the local factories,. was a very faded boxcar with Southern markings I guess the boxcar had not seen a coat of paint for many years.

The Logos are great many thanks for posting them again.

Looking forward to the Hudson Bay tomorrow. The great thing about the forum is unlike TV if there is a problem with the equipment the postings are still there whereas if you miss the TV programme thats it.

I'll popin again soon if I can meanwhile have some a twenty to re-stock the Coal- Scuttle. PETE.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 5:52 PM
Good evening Tom and gents! I'll have the usually bottomless draught please, and here's plenty of Michigan quarters for the coal scuttle. As had already been noted, Al seems to have all twenty fingers going on that Panama Limited IC streamliner. Nifty train names to be sure! Great Lionel train info Mr. BK, and Nice AF pic and info from Lars. Im curious CM3, did any of your trains look like this?

A realistic model of the Baldwin-built “Pioneer,” first C.&N.W. engine


The Hudson type is quite a giant beside her predecessor of a century ago


A few of the Strombeck-Beacker wooden models of famous engines and trains. How many can you name?


[:I] A traveling salesman rings the doorbell, and 10-year-old Little Johnny answers, holding a beer and smoking a fat cigar. The salesman says, “Young man, is your mother home?”
Little Johnny taps his ash on the carpet and says, “What the hell do you think?” [:I]
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:03 PM
Hello Gents!

I see Pete 'n Doug have made it in! First - Doug my apologies - I corrected my AM Post to reflect YOUR participation in our "theme!"[#oops]

Pete Glad to have you back with us! I know how connectivity problems can really turn what should be a "fun" experienced into sheer exasperaton. This time last year was when I got away from dial-up and went to high speed from my cable company. What a difference. Also added wireless capability for my laptop, which now enables my wife to be online at the PC while I'm doing this - at the same time. Worth it, fer sure, fer sure![tup] Your situation is about to take a turn for the better![tup]

Doug Interesting Pix! [tup] Lousy joke1[tdn] I think you're spoiling Coal Scuttle with those Michigan quarters - "she" thinks they are dessert![swg] Thanx![tup]

Pete Remind me to tell ya about "the tenner" one of these days (daze).
Thanx for the round AND $$$$ for Coal Scuttle!

Later![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    May 2014
  • 3,727 posts
Posted by trolleyboy on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 11:35 PM
Good evening gents, Leon my friend I think I could use a guiness this evening ( for the fibre )[:D]

Tom Your emails have been recieved and responded too [tup] interstinf choice for tomorrows Candian Railway piece, should make for an interesting bit of reading. I'll have to get my thinking cap omn for that one ![:0]

Doug Strombeker now ther is a blast from the past,interestingly enough they are still around in one form or another,we still get cartons marked as manufactured by strombecker at the store still, mostly plastic pails and shovels and small 1 and 2 dollar toys. They have off coarse been swallowed up by one of the big toy conglomerates but at least the historic name is still out there. I wonder when the train line was discontinued, I remember seeings the planes and car kits from them when I was going up but never a locomotive or piece of rolling stock. Shows what the difference several decades makes though, you can't send your design staff out into the train yard to measure and shetch anymore[:0]

BK Nice bit on the Lionel,[tup] I'm glad that both you and Tom didn't bother going too in deapth into all the recent who's sueing who crap, too many awfull things have occured on the main forums on those subjects,one sniff and all the AH's on both sides of that fence begin circling, we don't want them in here.[:(][;)].I'm guessing that you and your intended have got the paaths up and down the mountain committed to memory now, I swear that my car can drive to work with out my help anymore.

Lars Ah the bookends have indeed given us some good reading today [tup] I like the old nostalgic pieces AF and Lionel. UI've never owned or been into either but having run the museum's tables at the local trainshows, I see anf hear all the dickering over prices and paint jobs and all those other nit picky collector points on those fine classic toy trains. Intersting to watch for sure. Have fun wearing the green and marching on Fri. [tup] I'll set up an extra tap for the variousgreen ails and bitters here at the bar on Friday [tup] H & H have even sauid that they are dying all their hair green for the occation as well[:0][:I] Could be intersting.

CM3 Wow what a great memory. I remember doing a couple of Strombeckers plane kits frame on paper plan then wrapped with the tissue. I think i may have ruined a set of mom's sissors or two over the year making models myself. the trouble we get into eh >?

Great additional info on the Southern's steam loco's as well, a fine extra kick at teh southern's can great info [tup]


Rob
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, March 16, 2006 4:44 AM

(courtesy: www.trainweb.org)

We open at 6 AM (all time zones!). (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Thursday is here! Time to start up with a cuppa Joe, some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and of course a selection from our Menu Board for a <light> or <traditional> breakfast![tup]


Daily Wisdom

Someone in the dugout said, “Yogi, you’re ugly,” and Yogi’s response was, “So? I don’t hit with my face.“[swg]
(yogi-ism)


Info for the Day:

Canadian Railways of the past – Hudson Bay Railways (HBRY) arrives TODAY – watch for it!

Something Special arrives TOMORROW – watch for it!

Railroads from Yesteryear – Denver & Rio Grande Western (D&RG) arrives next Tuesday!

* Weekly Calendar:

Today: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: St. Patrick’s Day – Special Menu!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Mar 2006, 05:22:38 (276) Wednesday’s Info & Summary

(2) barndad Doug Posted: 15 Mar 2006, 05:34:58 (276) AM Visit, Pike Perspectives & joke!

(3) passengerfan Al Posted: 15 Mar 2006, 06:15:41 (276) Streamliner #75 – Panama Ltd

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Mar 2006, 07:33:04 (276) Acknowledgments & Comments

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Mar 2006, 07:56:48 (276) Pike Perspectives Day!

(6) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 15 Mar 2006, 08:08:55 (276) Informative Post w/Pike Perspectives

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Mar 2006, 10:51:34 (276) Acknowledgment, etc.

(8) BudKarr BK Posted: 15 Mar 2006, 13:35:02 (276) PM Report & Lionel

(9) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 15 Mar 2006, 14:28:14 (276) PM Report & AF

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Mar 2006, 15:11:28 (276) Acknowledgments, etc.

(11) pwolfe Pete Posted: 15 Mar 2006, 16:50:30 (276) Pete’s Report!

(12) barndad Doug Posted: 15 Mar 2006, 17:52:16 (276) Doug’s Pix, etc. & joke

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Mar 2006, 18:03:17 (276) Acknowledgments, etc.

(14) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Mar 2006, 23:35:02 (276) Inclusive Post!



NOW SHOWING:

The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre
Double Features! Now with The Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, March 12th thru 18th: Mystery Alaska (1999) starring: Russell Crowe, Hank Azaria & Mary McCormack –and- Slap Shot (1977) starring: Paul Newman – Strother Martin & Michael Ontkean. SHORT: Beer and Pretzels (1933).


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, March 16, 2006 4:49 AM



Canadian Railways of the Past –

Hudson Bay Railway (HBRY) -

Arrives on track #1 at Noon – Watch for it!


Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, March 16, 2006 7:20 AM
Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a coffee and a crumpet.

Nice to see your S-gauge once again. If I only had the spsce I believe this is the way I would go.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER # 76
by Al

CINCINNATIAN B&O Trains 75-76 June 25, 1950 Cincinnati – Detroit daily each direction 582.2 miles each way 12 hours 30 minutes each way

The same two CINCINNATIAN consists of 1947 were transferred from their former Baltimore – Washington to Cincinnati runs, to a new Detroit – Cincinnati run. The five car Coach streamliners had steadily lost money on the original run they had been built for and the B&O in a last desperate effort to try to do something with the trains transferred them to the new route. Fortunately the new route was an almost instant success and the trains soon had grown to nine cars within six months of entering service on the new route. The additional cars unfortunately were heavyweights but in spite of this the trains still showed great ridership improvement. The B&O was able to turn the original CINCINNATIAN a failure into a fine success story by simply changing the train’s route.

CONSIST ONE

1307 EDEN PARK Baggage Crew Dayroom Buffet 24- Seat Lounge Car

3565 INDIAN HILL 60- Revenue Seat Coach

3572 OAKLEY 56- Revenue Seat Coach Stewardess Room

3567 COLLEGE HILL 60- Revenue Seat Coach

3304 PEEBLES CORNER 23-Seat Café 21- Seat Lounge Observation

SECOND CONSIST

1308 HYDE PARK Baggage Crew Dayroom Buffet 24- Seat Lounge Car

3566 WINTON PLACE 60- Revenue Seat Coach

3573 NORWOOD 56- Revenue Seat Coach Stewardess Room

3568 WALNUT HILLS 60- Revenue Seat Coach

3305 FOUNTAIN SQUARE 23- Seat Café 21- Seat Lounge Observation

The CINCINNATIAN was discontinued at the start of Amtrak.


TTFN AL
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Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, March 16, 2006 7:22 AM



. . . . . . Mentor Village Gazette . . . . . .

Vol. II, Number 3 . . . . . . . . Friday, March 17th, 2006 . . . . . . . . . Free
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .St. Patrick’s Day Edition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .



WATCH FOR IT –

TOMORROW MORNING!




Be sure you are getting the most current information when you log in – Use Reload/Repost repeatedly.[tup]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by coalminer3 on Thursday, March 16, 2006 8:09 AM
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Gas this a.m. is $2.60, a week ago it was $2.20 (zoiks!)

I don't know what it was about mom's scissors, but I was interested to see that things were similar in other people's households.

LARS - Thanks for the AF information

BARNDAD - I had the Strombekcer Rock Island diesel and cars. I do recall seeing some of the other models - some guseese as far as I can remember for some of those in the pictures include the DeWitt Clinton, Tom Thumb, Best Fiend of Charleston, and the Pioneer. The one on the low right looks eithger like a B&O muddigger or an early PRR steam locomotive; can't really tell from the picutre, though. The Hudson is intersting ; a three-way cross among Milwaukee Road, NYC, with a "sort-of" C&O cab. I just remember that my imagination filled in a lot of the details when I was putting stuff together.

PASSENGERFAN's post of the Cincinnatian kicked something forward in what's left of my memory. The C&O/B&O shared passenger service in the days before ATK began. The Cincinnatian was one of these services. In 1969, the Cincainnatian operated between Detroit-Toledo-Dayton-Cincinnati.

It ran as C&O 40/39 between Detroit and Toledo. It was &O 53/54 between Toledo and Cincinnati. The B&O's consist list mentioned reclining seat coaches between Detroit and Cincinnati with beverage and food service between Cincinnati and Lima.

The train left Detroit (Ft. St. Station) at 11:00 a.m.
Arr. Toledo12:55p.m.
Dep. Toledo 1:05 p.m.
Lima 2:58 p.m.
Dayton 4:47 p.m.
arr. Cincinnati 6:20 p.m.

Northbound
Lv. Cincainnati 10:00 a.m.
Dayton 11:40 a.m.
Lima 1:16 p.m.
Arr. Toledo 3:30 p.m.
Dep. Toledo 3:45 p.m.
Arr. Detroit 5:40 p.m.

Let' s close with another interesting consist

PC 177-133 "Federal" (Saturdays)

Lounge car: Boston-New York (6 double bedrooms, buffet)
Sleeping Car: Boston-Washington (14 rtte/4 db)
Parlor car: New York-Washington
Diner: New York-Washington
Coaches: Boston-New York; New York-Washington (Snack bar)

Beats anything that's on the corridor now - you can't even get a sleeper out of Boston to anywhere at the present time. Better stop before Boris escorts me to the Rat Room.

work safe
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Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:42 AM
Good Morning!

Third day in succession with blue skies and rising temps. The buds are budding and birds are chirping – spring is right around the corner. Petrol up at “Collusion Corner” hit the $2.40 (rounded) mark yesterday and is holding thus far today. Did I miss something[?] [%-)]


Reminder: I will be away tomorrow from about 10 AM ‘til late afternoon. Everything will be set in motion for a St. Pat’s Day! to remember! Just be kind to Cindy as she’ll have the bar ‘til my return. [}:)][:-,]


Not much in the acknowledgment area other than to say “good to see ya,” Rob – Al & CM3! Appreciate the rounds and quarters, as always![tup] Interesting “stuff” on the Cincinnatian, the city I called “home” for most of my military career. However, never was stationed there …….


Received quite a few Emails and it took a bit of time to respond to ‘em all. Thanx![tup]

Looks like the First Annual ”Our” Place Rendezvous in Toronto only awaits our arrival on May 11th. The time has gotten to the point where within a couple of weeks, those of us heading north will be able to say, “Next month!!” [yeah][tup][tup][tup]

RR Book Relay! info has it that the “book” has made it to Ontario, Canada. Awwwright![tup] Still time for others to join in – just ship me an E-mail.


Tomorrow morning will be a be fast ‘n furious, as I have several Posts to get lined up and “out.” Then I’m gone ……..

Oh yeah – before I totally forget, a word or two about Sunday Photo Posting Day!

I’d like to try and keep the Pix Posting between the hours of sunup ‘n sundown if at all possible and also shy away from “pix dumping.” That doesn’t mean one cannot Post at other times, but it surely will help out to keep us “up” on the Forum during the times when people are awake – and of course keeps the flow so that I don’t have to “babysit” to ensure something is being provided every couple of hours or so. Please give it a try – THANX!


Okay, boyz, I’ll be here for the day!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


Stick around a few minutes AFTER POSTING - The information you MISS may be for YOU!

Those who acknowledge the other guy, get acknowledged!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:00 PM



Canadian Railways of the Past (and present!)

Number Four: Hudson Bay Railway (HBRY)



Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.


Hudson Bay Railway

Locale: Manitoba, Canada

Reporting marks: HBRY

Dates of operation: 1997 – present

Track gauge: 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm) (standard gauge)

Headquarters: The Pas, Manitoba

Hudson Bay Railway (HBRY) is a Canadian regional railway operating over 810 miles of trackage in northern Manitoba.

HBRY was formed in July 1997 to purchase former Canadian National Railway (CN) trackage running north from CN trackage at The Pas, MB on two branches, one to Flin Flon, MB and on to Lynn Lake, MB, the other to Thompson, MB and on to the port of Churchill, MB on Hudson Bay. Operations began on August 20, 1997 and the company is owned by railroad holding company OmniTrax.

At the same time, OmniTrax also took over the operation and marketing of the Port of Churchill from the federal government's Department of Transport. Previous owner CN had limited tonnage on these lines as a result of the light rail and poor track base; however OmniTrax has been able to successfully operate heavier rail cars and longer trains in recent years without difficulty, resulting in increased business to the Port of Churchill and from various mines and pulp mills.

HBRY is a vital transportation link in northern Manitoba, hauling ores and concentrates, copper, zinc, logs, kraft paper, lumber, and petroleum products. VIA Rail also operates remote services on HBRY using its Hudson Bay passenger train between Winnipeg, MB and Churchill.

Major customers for HBRY include Hudson Bay Mining and Smelting, Tolko Manitoba, Inco, Gardwine North, Stitcco Energy, and the Canadian Wheat Board.

History

The original Hudson Bay Railway line was built in stages north from The Pas after a railway bridge was constructed over the Saskatchewan River in 1910-1911 by the Canadian Northern Railway (CNoR). Following the CNoR bankruptcy in 1918 and creation of Canadian National Railways (CNR), the federal government undertook to complete the Hudson Bay Railway.

Political interference, financing difficulties, and engineering challenges by the large amount of muskeg and frequent rock outcrops on the Canadian Shield led to inevitable delays. Although initial surveys were done to both the Hudson Bay ports of Churchill, MB and Nelson, MB, it was decided to proceed to Churchill in 1926 and the line to tidewater was completed March 29, 1929.

CNR subsequently built resource railways from The Pas to Flin Flon, opening in 1928, followed by an extension on this line from Cranberry Portage, MB to Lynn Lake, opening November 9, 1953.

On July 27, 2005, heavy rains washed out part of the railroad between between The Pas and Pukatawagan; all service over the line, including VIA Rail trains 290 and 291, was suspended while repairs took place.(VIA) Service was restored on August 2, 2005, two days ahead of initial expectations.(VIA)

References

• VIA Rail Canada (July 27, 2005), Hudson Bay Railway closes line - VIA service form The Pas to Pukatawagan temporarily cancelled. Retrieved August 1, 2005.

• VIA Rail Canada (August 2, 2005), VIA resumes service between Churchill and Winnipeg. Retrieved November 20, 2005.


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)][oX)]
Did you miss the first three in the series[?] Click on the URL:
#1 Canadian Northern Railway (CNoR), page 246
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=246&TOPIC_ID=35270

#2 Northern Alberta Railways (NAR), page 249
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=249&TOPIC_ID=35270
#3 British Columbia Railways (BCR) (Two Parts), pages 261-262
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=261&TOPIC_ID=35270



waving flags credit: www.3DFlags.com
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:16 PM
G'day!

Just something to add to our Canadian Railway from the Past (and present!)


Hudson Bay Railway map (doesn't enlarge)


Later![tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by pwolfe on Thursday, March 16, 2006 2:31 PM
Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams and a round please. Of course can you put me down for some Fish and Chips for later.

TOM One more day before Broadband(hopefully). The Puter is back in my good books after I recieved a DVD from England and the DVD player would not have anything to do with it. I never knew that DVDs weren't compatable, I know videos arn't, anyway after the bride put the disc in the Puter and changed a setting I was able to see and hear it. Athough the bride didn't appriciate the sound of two 37s at full blast through the speakers.
You have got me wondering what the "Tenner" is.

Great post on the Hudson's Bay Railway [tup][tup][tup].It must be a real hard job to keep the line open in the Winter. Although the washout occured in the Summer the crews must deserve great credit in getting the line open again in such a short time.
The post brought back memories as there was a painting of Hudson's Bay on the wall of my classroom in Junior school and it always fascinated me.Many thanks for the map as well.

DOUG Thanks for the Strombeck-Beaker photos and for CM3 for the answers to your quiz. Is the 3rd loco on the 2nd row a Shay ?

AL and CM3 thanks for the Cincinnatian info another great named train.

In the K.C. Star paper it said that China is about to spend Billions of Dollars on new rail lines, which it said would be the biggest growth of railways since the Mid-1800s in N.America. One line may be a MAG-LEV with trains doing 260MPH.

Well TOM St. Patrick"s Day tomorrow and a new issue of The Gazette GREAT. [^][tup][yeah].

There was a Deltic diesel loco on BR which was named ST PADDY. A pint of Guinness for any one who can say what it was named after. I bet NICK will know. PETE.
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, March 16, 2006 2:32 PM
Good afternoon Tom.

Bit slow today are you awake back there behind the bar [?] [:D] I'll nab a Keith's as it's my day off so I'm here when that bright thing is up in the sky.[:O] Yes I know Boris your not used to seeing me before your midnight nap time.

Great info on the Hudson Bay RR there Sir Tom,it's an intersting little road with history back to the CnoR. Running a railway in that kind of inhospitable terraine is a challange,no wonder the CnoR and the like insisted upon the closed cabs on their steam locomotives.

I haven't been able to dig up too much more, but I did come accross a small article in an old Branchline magazine that fits the bill of the day as they say.

This is from the July-August 2003 issue of Branchline mag

Hudson Bay Railway Wins Contract

Hudson Bay Railway received the contract from Manitoba Hydro to rebuild the utilities 14 mile rail spur. The project includes upgrading the track , grading and installing new culverts and geotextiles to improve the track stability.Widening the rail-bed bank ,and replacing the rail itself ."Winning this contract marks our entrance into a new line of the business " said by Darcy Brede vp of Candian rail Operations for the HBRY owner Omnitraxx Inc.

also another little tidbit from the same mag

Port of Churchill To Open For 2003 Sipping Season

One of the worlds biggest grain companies haas come to the aid of Churchill in a dealthat will ensure the northern port continues operations this year.The agreement involving a Canadian Subsidury of Louis Dreyfus is the missing financial link in a Federal-Provincial effort to help OmniTraxx , which owns the troubled port. The port will remain in operation this year and hopefully into the future said one sorce involved in helping secure the deal. Hudson Bay Port Company , an affliiate of OmniTraxx,anounced that the Port of Churchill will be open for the 2003 shipping season . Also it announsed an agreenebt between OmniTraxx and the Canadian Wheat Board to increase it's shipments throught the Manitoba Port.The deal between Louis Drefus and OmniTraxx is described as a strong partnership involving the management of the port and grain terminal.

Enjoy

Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, March 16, 2006 2:40 PM
Hey Pete glad to see you. I'll make sure that H&H put an extra big portion of Cod on for you.Any cahnce for photo's of that Deltic named St Paddy [?] It would be an interesting locomotive to see for sure

They do have fun keeping that line open, same type of fun that BCR now CNR has with the ex BC /Nar to Dawson City.

Interesting to hear that you had a picture of Hudson's Bay in your schoolroom,painting of a HBC trading post I would assume. I suppose on a sadder not The HBC has been sold and is no longer in Candian hands [sigh] so far no major name changes have occured but I assume that that will likely change.


Interesting info on China too Sir Pete[^] Nice to see that another part of the world see's the wisdom of heavy rail corridors for passengers and freight.I imagine that with the population base ,fares alone will likley pay for that new rail system within a decade[:0] Why can't we do things like that over here[?] Just frosts my butt[:0][B)]


Tlak to everyone again soon.

Rob
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Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, March 16, 2006 3:18 PM
G’day!

Hey! Two customers to liven up the joint![swg] Great to see ya Pete ‘n Rob! Have one on me![tup] It’s been a looooooooooong day thus far . . . .

Rob Figured you’d get a kick out of the HBRY and you are correct, there’s not a whole lot on it. Nice supplemental info![tup][tup]

Surprised that Pete had knowledge of it back in Merry Olde – but then again, “they” do keep track of their ‘former’ colonies, eh[?][swg] Glad to hear that things are on the upswing with the ‘puter and of course, tomorrow means a fresh start! What are you going to do with the “old” one[?] Actually, I’m starting a “museum” in our storage room for ‘puters from the past! What a shame, a real sham, and a waste to essentially have to throw out the old because no one wants ‘em. Even tried to give ‘em away to a couple of outfits around here that “remake” them or train people to repair or build and they didn’t want ‘em! Really. There’s no return on the “investment,” and we’re all better off knowing that beforehand – then the disappointment is lessened later on.


Thanx to that marvelous technological invention of Al Gore, inventor of the Internet JUST KIDDING!! - received Email assurances from Nick ‘n Ted that they are indeed among the living![tup]

In the case of our Chief Chef, [C=:-)] he’s still battling the ravages of whatever type flu has knocked he and his family out of commission on-and-off for weeks. No fun.[tdn]

Regarding our former Manager Ted, he didn’t elaborate – so we’ll go with our best guess – which is he’s busy. Certainly hope he’s well.[tup]

Also heard from the “bookends,” and on the same day and within hours of one another! Spooky, eh[?]

Anyway, Lars is having “installation problems” and thinks that the work involved with their whole house dehumidifier/air purifier may spill over ‘til the ‘morrow. Which of course means it will screw him up for the Big Parade in NYC! That can’t be good on both counts.

BK says that they are going to be quite busy over the weekend, commencing today (now that’s the way to BEGIN a weekend!) and he’ll do his best to stop by, but doesn’t guarantee it. They also have a couple of trips to make before the wedding in May, which means he’ll be offline for a bit – maybe a week here and another, there.


So, looks as if we’re going to be “down” to the nitty-gritty ‘round here. But, ya know we surely can’t continue depending on our “bookends” to bail us out during these rather long and boring afternoons. My approach will be simply to let the Thread idle between mid-morning and evening. I’m sure the idiots, brain dead and assorted other intellectuals Posting the inane crap we all have come to detest, will have a field day without us at “the top.”

Even slower than a plugged up maple tree on “my other thread.” [zzz]


For a smile, check this out: [swg]

From the Can-Am Trainroom! (click to enlarge)



That’s it fer now![tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by pwolfe on Thursday, March 16, 2006 3:35 PM
Hi Tom and all.
Another Bathams please.

ROB I see the car with the Guinness as just arrived at the Mentor loading dock and is being unloaded by H&H and BORIS ready for tomorrow.

Thanks for the Hudsons Bay info. I really hope the line can get the business and that the port of Churchill is kept busy.
It Must be about 45 years since I last saw the painting It showed canoes loaded with furs heading for the Post. I really hope that the famous name is kept.

I am not clever enough yet to post photos at Our Place but I have found a great web site with photos of Deltics(Class55) and other BR diesels it is
http://www.55s.co.uk/

On the home page if you go to Photos there is a picture of a Deltic on the Kyle line in Scotland it struck me of it being very simular scenery to some of the Candian photos that have appeared at Our Place.
Then if you go to Railphots there are pics of Deltics in BR service.
I dont think there is a photo of St Paddy as perhaps photos of her are a bit rarer as she was one of the first two to be withdrawn from service. Her running # was 55001.

Thanks for asking as this is a site I will visit again when I get Broadband although the puter is faster today than it has been all week.

Another Bathams please TOM Just caught your post. I will be still on the same puter but going on to Broadband at least the phone line can be used when I am on line.
Loved the signs and the smilee halfway down, was is that one called[?]
The bug seems to have a good hold of NICK lets hope he is restored to full health very soon. My mate says the weather over there is rainy and then very cold still. PETE.
  • Member since
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Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:52 PM
Good Evening!

Pete Not quite sure what "smilie" you are referring to ... the URL is: http://www.railroadforum.com/forum/faq.asp#smilies

Oh, I must have confused your 'puter situation with that of Rob's. Happens when you get OLD![swg] Nevertheless, you will really like the change of speeds . . . makes all the difference.

That reference to "tenner" was something I thought was a term YOU used![%-)][%-)] I think I need a Pete-Tom "language definer."[swg] To be followed up by Email.

I browsed that URL you provided and with something like that available, why waste the time and effort to Post[?] Great Pix - thanx![tup]

Leon the Night Man takes the bar at 9 PM (Central)

Later![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    April 2003
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:54 PM
Good evening Tom and gents! I'll have a bottomless draught, and buy my usual round for the house. Hope you've all been having a good day .. we got hit by another winter snowstorm here [:(!]. Don't worry about initially forgetting to give me credit for contributing to the SOU theme the other day. I've accepted the apology and canceled Vito's (the hit) contract on ya [;)]. I'm very much looking forward to tommorow's Gazette. Great Huson Bay posts from yourself and Rob, and those Can-Am pix remind me that I need signs like those for my new train room!

Nice Cincinnatian B&O post Mr. Al. Glad To see some of you enjoyed the Strombecker Pike piece yesterday. If you take a peak at E-Bay, you can see some of the models up for auction! Thanks for classifying some of the trains CM3, and Peter, the picture is such a poor quality that I am unable to identify the engine you asked about as a Shay. Maybe it is ... I dunno. That's the problem with these old magazine pulp publications. At best, the pages are yellowed. At worst the pages are eaten and stained. [xx(]

Here's my little contribution for the day ... and old article on tunnels. I have to warn you, this first submission isn't too exciting ..... but it gets better! (unlike my jokes)

Tunnels by Henry B. Comstock June 1947 Railroad Magazine


Tunnel work in the late ‘Eighties. Timber shoring holds back loose wet stone or “porridge”


The thin tongue of flame which licked up through Cold River saddle that October day in 1865 was hardly brighter than the frost-nipped foliage. But the black smoke hanging like a tattered shroud above it carried its unmistakable message of tragedy to the west summit signal house. Within a matter of minutes all North Adams knew that death had struck again, deep in the slate-quartz heart of Hoosac Mountain.

“Those who do the devil’s work must take the devil’s wages,” thundered the local clergy, while a poet, his tear drops tinctured with an ink-stained thumb, penned thirteen verses of rhyme-corrupted legend which began:

“Only a tunneler” killed last night,
Blown up about twelve o’clock.
There’s no one to blame. The fellow was tight,
And couldn’t endure the shock.”

Meanwhile, surface workers struggles desperately to quench the fiery geyser circling the central ventilating shaft of what was to be the nation’s longest hardrock bore – the mighty Hoosnac Tunnel. A miner shook his singed fists at a blazing wooden drum. “Gasoline,” he coughed. “*** them new commissioners! They should have left the stuff alone ad stuck to oil lamps.” A heavy hand fell on his shoulder. Turning, he looked into a strained face, gray as rock dust; nodded and touched his cap. “Tom,” the newcomer said, “how many men are down there in the shaft?” “Thirteen, sir; all the crew. With the pumping engine cut off they’ll drown like rats in a tub – that is, if they aren’t crushed first by falling …”

The sudden buckling of the elevator gantry finished the sentence for him. Angling crazily to one side it parted in a bright cascade of sparks and plummeted piecemeal into the yawning pit below. For one brief moment volcanic rumblings rose from the crater; then there was silence, broken only by the crackle of the flaming fuel drums. Once more the miner fumbled for his cap. “Mr. Mowbray, that makes more than a hundred of us killed here in the Hoosac. When is this murder going to stop?”

The man with the gray face shook his head. “Not,” he said, “until the Commonwealth of Massachusetts turns construction over to a competent private contractor. You can’t run trains through a mountain honeycombed with political graft.”

A brilliant chemist who had been conducting blasting experiments with the new explosive, nitro-glycerine, Geioge M. Mowbray knew of what he spoke. For fourteen long years this ineptly-operated engineering project had been the laughing stock of neighboring states, and the dismay of every Massachusetts taxpayer. The idea behind it was sound enough – a rail link between Boston and the west which would avoid the difficult Green Mountain grades of the Boston & Albany. What had made the more northerly route especially attractive were the two natural watercourses approaching Hoosac Mountain’s steep flanks – one, the Deerfield River; the other, the winding Hoosac. Both had done a titanic task of preliminary grading. Join the two trenches together with five miles of subterranean railroad and the manufactories of northern New England would stream an endless line of traffic into Albany over an easy profile.

With incorporation of the Troy & Greenfield Railroad, the State Commission had made a brave start. It must be remembered that in 1851 the art of tunnel construction on this side of the Atlantic was in its infancy. Only eighteen years before, the first railroad bore in the United States had been driven through Staple Bend, four miles east of Johnstown, Pa., to carry traffic of the Allegheny Portage Railroad between the canalized watersheds of the Juniata and Conemaugh rivers. This humble little stone-lined corridor, measuring just over nine hundred feet in length, may still be seen today, its sealed portals buried deep in the emerald twilight of the tilted forests.

Four years after the first green-barreled locomotive entered the Portage smoke-hole, blasé’ Manhattanites boarded a New York & Harlem train for a spin through the rock-ribbed transportation lane at Ninety-first Street and Park Avenue. Precursor of the City’s intricate subway network, Gotham’s pioneer tunnel was only three blocks long! Scores of other smoke holes had been drilled before the fathers of the Hoosac fired popular fancy with their bold proposal to pierce the twenty-five-thousand foot mountain barrier from both slopes, working the headings inward toward a meeting point. At the same time a central ventilating shaft was to be driven downward a distance of more than a thousand feet and corridors pushed outward in both directions toward end headings.

Even today the layman finds it hard to understand how tunnel engineers can plot the course of such a project with full assurance that the excavations will not bypass one another.

Yet the Hoosac system, primitive as it was, proved highly accurate. Here’s how it worked: The mountain, itself, did not build up to a central peak. Rather, it had two summits with an intervening saddle. On each of the crests a large stone tower was placed, directly over the line of the proposed tunnel. Thin steel masts capped the monolisks, giving a still more precise indication of the excavation’s center line. So far, so good. But it stood to reason that both towers could not be seen from the portals of the Hoosac. By means of a transit equipped with a powerful telescope, the line of the tunnel was therefore projected on across the Hoosac and Deerfield Rivers to two additional mountain tops, where similar towers were erected. Now it became a simple matter to align the tunnel mouths between cross-river markers. As work progressed into the rock, iron hooks were embedded in the ceiling, from which plummets could be suspended. Each drop line, in its turn, was brought into plane with the two behind it, providing a continuous check.

A more difficult problem was that of getting the central shaft headings started in the right directions. Again the Hoosac towers served to locate the vertical tunnel. On either side of markers, a fifth and sixth tower were raised. A wire stretched between them afforded suspension points for plumb lines dropped to the bottom of the shaft at locations as far apart as the width of the cutting allowed. To prevent their swinging ever so slightly – a variation of a fraction of an inch in so short a spread would have thrown all calculations off – each cord was boxed in an eight-inch square wooden sleeve and the weights themselves suspended in buckets of water. Again the tunnel workers had two fixed points from which to align their iron hooks.

[:I] A man walks into a bar, sits down and orders a cold one. He swigs down the beer, looks in his pocket, cringes and orders another. He gulps down that one, looks in his pocket again, cringes and orders yet another one. This goes on for at least an hour and a half. Finally the bartender, bursting with curiosity, says, "I know it's none of my business buddy, but I have to ask. Why the whole 'drink, look in pocket, cringe and order another one' routine?"
"Well," slurred the man, "There's a picture of my wife in my pocket. When she starts to look good, then I know it's time for me to go home." [:I]

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