Erie Railroad's herald

[NKP guy]

   Does anyone know the approximate year the Erie RR began using its famous circle within a diamond herald?  I've seen it in photographs as far back as c.1900; any evidence it was used earlier than that?

[timz]

Have you looked in the pre-1900 Official Guides? A bunch of them are online at timetableworld.com, and also at naotc.org .

[Flintlock76]

I've seen that Erie herald on photos of boxcars from 1912.  Just when  they began applying it to locomotives I'm not sure but I have seen  photos of Erie locomotives from the 1920's where the herald's been applied to the tenders. 

I did find a reference that the logo goes back as far as 1891 but nothing about when it came into 100% usage. 

I've just checked one of my books and there's some roster shots of Erie Mikados from 1923 and "Erie" is spelled out on the tenders, no "circle in the square" logo. The book also has roster shots of Erie K5 Pacifics also built in 1923 and "Erie" is spelled out on the tenders as well.  There's also some photos of Erie locomotives from the 1890's and "Erie Railroad" is spelled out on the tenders. There's a line drawing of an Erie 2-10-0 Camelback displayed at the 1893 Chicago Columbian Exposition and the tender's lettered "N.Y.L.E.&W." 

I'm guessing the "Erie Diamond" came into universal usage sometime in the late 1920's but I can't nail down a specific date.

[NKP guy]

Thanks to you both.

I spent some time looking at Official Guides and found that the Erie Diamond is first seen in the 1889 edition.  The next earliest Official Guide available is dated 1881 and it does not have that logo or herald.  The answer to my question seems to be sometime in the 1880's; certainly by 1889.  Is it likely the same herald began showing up on locomotives, rolling stock and elsewhere about the same time?  I'll be studying old photographs looking for support for my thesis, but so far I haven't seen any pre-1920 examples.

Thanks to timz for giving me a good resource to use researching this question.

[Flintlock76]

NKP guy

 I'll be studying old photographs looking for support for my thesis, but so far I haven't seen any pre-1920 examples.

Neither have I.  Good luck in your search!  And let us know if you find anything.

Jeez, it's at times like this I really miss Wanswheel...  

[NKP guy]

Flintlock76

Jeez, it's at times like this I really miss Wanswheel...  

Amen.

[timz]

Google or someone has scanned lots of 1880s Official Guides. Go to naotc.org and click on the "Official Guides" link on the left side of the page that comes up.

[NKP guy]

   Re-checking, I find the herald appears in the Oct-Dec. 1888 Official Guide (and thereafter).  It does not appear in the 1886 OG; the 1887 OG is missing or unavailable.  So it seems the date is 1888 or maybe 1887.

   Now, back to looking at old Erie photos.

[Flintlock76]

NKP guy

 Now, back to looking at old Erie photos.

Right, that's what I had to do.

The only thing I can guess, and I don't like guessing, is the "Erie Diamond" started becoming universal on locomotives after 1925 and was universal (I'm sure there were exceptions) by 1930. 

I went deep into the archives here at the Fortress Flintlock and pulled out my copy of "Men of Erie" by Edward Hungerford (1946) but Hungerford says nothing about it.  Plenty about everything else though!