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Ninth and Sixth Avenue Manhattan Elevateds

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Ninth and Sixth Avenue Manhattan Elevateds
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 7, 2022 5:55 AM

They need their own thread.  Nate Gerstein forwarded to me, unknown source, a great photo of the yard adjacent to the Polo Grounds, north of the 8th Avenue and 155th Street Station, land now occupied by an apartment complex.  The Putnam Bridge, already then in use by 9th and 6th Avenue trains to reach the Jerome Avenue Line, is in the upper-right background.

I would not dare edit such a terrific photo.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 7, 2022 9:15 AM

A photo copied from the Putnam Division thread, showing a  NYCentral Putnam Division train in the 8th Av. & 155th St. Station, before electrification of the Elevated, before the extension iof the Elevated over the Putnam Bridge for the opening of the Jerome Avenue line, prior to Lexington Avenue service.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 7, 2022 11:50 AM

Much earliker, the first use f the  newly-built "West Side Elevated Railway.," with Charles Harvey for tyhe initial test:

 

One of the two elevated cable-cars:

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, August 9, 2022 6:17 AM

From the "Very Strange Things" thread, posted a long tine ago by Miningman, south of the Rector Street Stations of both the 9th and 6th Avenue Elevates, and  northy of flat junction for a two-track shared route to South Ferr:

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, August 12, 2022 8:51 AM

Also by Miningman on the very strange thongs thread, the two curves trabsitioning the Elevated from columbus (9th) Avenue using 110th Street, and the highest elevated styructure in the city.   Photo from before electrification:

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, August 17, 2022 3:11 AM

Color postcard view.  Glad as a 5-8-year-old to have rideden it.  Once, with parents, actually used the 110th St. local station, connected to nan elevator in a bulding on the north side of 110th Street.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, August 17, 2022 8:08 PM

42nd St. to 6th Ave,

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, August 18, 2022 8:25 PM

Later, in the 1920s

Handling the original cable:

Double tracking, initial steam days:

Sixth Avenue post electrification:

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, August 25, 2022 6:40 PM

Origibal south end of 6th Av. El. construction, from photo sent me by Nate Gerstein.

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Posted by WILLIAM O CRAIG on Thursday, August 25, 2022 7:38 PM

Those parked cars in the first August 19 photo date it to the 1930's, not 1920's. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, August 26, 2022 3:25 AM

Yes, I see one auto that looks like early 30s, possily as late as 1935.  The picture could not be any later than that, because every single elevated car is an open-platform "gate-car," and by 1936 a substantial number had been converted to "multplr-unit-door-control" vestibuled cars, with the operator looking ahead through two windows, not just one, since the tiny cab and controls were not moved.

Thanks for the added information.

 

 

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Saturday, August 27, 2022 1:58 AM

Dave -- THAT 6th Ave EL PHOTO you submitted IS NOT THE PHOTO Nate Gerstein sent you and me via email.  It is your self edited and corrupted, ruined grainy fuzzy version of Nate's photo that you presented here - as I show immediately just below!!! .

 

 

However,  NOW following BELOW,  "IS" the photo Nate sent you by email -- which is far sharper and cleaner than your "poorly edited" copy version you posted on this forum !!

You had no right nor reason at all - to take a good sharper quality photo someone (Nate)  sent to you and with nerve, put that persons' (Nate's)  name on your poor quality edited version of his original sent photo,  passing off and inferring to readers here that your poorly edited copy version was the one actually coming from Nate !!! .  Nate would NEVER (nor would I) display on any forum or email,  such a poor quality edited photo in place of the much sharper original on hand.

Dave, this is unconscionable conduct by you and should be stopped. This forum posting was also sent to Nate who I know will NOT be pleased with your substitution of his photo with your corrupted version with his name attached! 

Regards - Joe F

 

 

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Saturday, August 27, 2022 8:03 PM

Dave -

Please be more careful to GET your caption-locations ACCURATE -----

( your caption text quoted "... 43nd St. to 5th Ave...." ) 

---- first and then re-CHECK your typing before and when you post them. 

The photo you posted (below) ---

--- was taken in the pre-electrification EL Forney steam loco era -- and is looking WEST on W.42nd Street (and NOT on " 43nd St. ")  to 6th AVENUE and the 6th Ave. EL, (and NOT " to 5th Ave " ).  The view is facing west towards the uptown W. 42nd Street Local Station of the EL.   Bryant Park is at left and BEHIND US,  one block away east,  IS actually where 5th Avenue is !!.

Regards - Joe F

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 28, 2022 2:23 AM

Some bug is at work.  I am sure I typed 42nd Street and Sixth Avenue.  Admittadly, my eyes at 90 cannot be perfect, and I proably need new glasses, but I do remember checking and proof-reading the caption, which will be corrected a seconf time now.

And I'll reserve judgement on my treatment of Nate's scan until I hear from Nate, himself.  I think you are wrong, but Nate will decide for me.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 28, 2022 3:37 AM

 A "dissapearing photo." Hope to repost ithin 24 hours.

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Sunday, August 28, 2022 3:04 PM

Hello Dave

You wrote, quoted here:

"..........And I'll reserve judgement on my treatment of Nate's scan until I hear from Nate, himself.  I think you are wrong, but Nate will decide for me....."

Dave, you likely will not hear from Nate.  Nate and I speak daily by phone and email each other quite frequently.  We actually spoke about this today !!            And You Lose !

Nate has very strongly expressed to me (and likely others privately)  his strong negative comments re; your editing of a number of photos under discussion recently (E.161st St image,  The 6th Ave EL (Nates) south end of line image, the TARS Mount Vernon image which you stated-wrote  with authority that it was "Bronx, 163rd & Westchester Avenue (and quite WRONG!).

Others have seen and agree with me . It is likley they do not want to deal with someone (you) who sadly cannot / will not - see his editing poor quality malfunctions . As simply being pointless for them to even get involved. Especially when they and all others can see that you continually support and defend,  to me (and thus all viewers),  your photo-editing usually low quality .  Very sad, Dave.

 

Continuing - re: the 6th Ave EL Uptown Station image you posted  - you wrote - quoted

"..................Some bug is at work.  I am sure I typed 42nd Street and Sixth Avenue.  Admittadly, my eyes at 90 cannot be perfect, and I proably need new glasses, but I do remember checking and proof-reading the caption, which will be corrected a seconf time now......................."

 

Dave, there is NO bug, as you say,  at work, except yourself !!  Your typos and some sentences you write are at times illegible, and thus are noted by all on your many forum  postings...and emails you create.  And so documented by all viewers.  There was no "bug" at work here because YOU alone wrote what you wrote (image caption) and based on that and previous messages,  you obviously do not proof-read or spell check before you hit the SUBMIT button. Take a bit more time to CHECK your texts before sending -- its not that hard !  Haste makes waste !

Best regards - Joe F

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 29, 2022 1:33 AM

You  are no judge, and I simply do not believe you with regard to your conversations with Nate.

Go back to my original posting of my edited version of Nate's scan.  I did not state that I posted Nate's  picture.  I stated  I posted a picture from material supplied bv Nate.

 

Further, I have asked Nate if he wishes me to remove my edited version from this website.  He has not asked me to do so and continues to send me pictures, without asiking that I refrain from editing.

Anyone can enlarge Nate's scan and my edited version and learn that:

1.  I did not lose sharpness.

2.  The increased  graininess is purely the product of increased contrast, and the  contrast is needed.

3.  I ask you  to please restrict youself only to make positive cdontributions to this thread by posting additional pictures and/or riding history and/or construction history.  Do not under any circumstances carry the argument on this particular photo any further.  And if Nate requests me to remove my edited version, I will be quick to comply with his wishes.

4.  You are in no position to judge the truth of the impossible in the Middle East.  I live here, you don't.  This was hardly the first time I sent out an email, even a manuscript to a publisher, that had errors I was certain I had  corrected.  Every reader on  this Forum already knew that I know the difference between 5th and  6th Avenues and 43rd and 42nd Streets.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 29, 2022 10:31 AM

Finally, a reply from Nate.  He also sent a new find of his, and I very lightly edited it, testing an electric loicomotive on the 9th Avenue Elevated, which I should be able to poat thia evening, after a problem in reaching Imgur is resolved. ,.

. "I do not wish to enter into this dilemma. All wanted to do is share the picture."

Nate
:


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Posted by Joseph Frank on Monday, August 29, 2022 1:03 PM

Dave --

 

As I wrote here earlier,  Nate doesn't (nor do others we know) want to be involved with you in this edits-discussion - as he (and they) see you are doggedly set in your ways and thus it as pointless - and so I do finally.

Just as Nate told me extensively last night when he phone called me Sunday, 8-28-2022  at 4:48 PM.  We spoke for one hour!  He feels - as I now do - you can not be enlightened at all on this photos-poor-edit issue.   I later email-wrote you privately last (Sunday) night that I was ending this discussion as it being pointless and a waste of time  to get thru to you on this issue.  You are set in your ways - and are going to continue doing your constant photo-editing as you please.

 

PS:  Heh - and please DON'T blame the Middle East, nor the internet servers, nor forum sites, or whom-whatever other entities, for your many typos and at times hard to decipher "sentences" -- DAVE - these are all written and done by YOU and no other "imagined entity" in your mind !  Its called thoroughly SPELL CHECK and PROOF READ each and every time - before you hit the send-submit button  !!!  Got it !??

So we will all move on. 

regards - Joe F

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 29, 2022 3:29 PM

Joe, you don't live here.

The other day, in the evening, I was waiting near the Yeshiva's for the Arab Sector 255 or 275 bus to Damacus Gate to connect with the light rail to Ammunition Hill to connect with Egged 52 or 34 to my Ma'alot Daphna Apartment.  I found searching my pockets that I fad a fifty Sheckle bill and a one sheckle coin.  When the 255 attived, and I handed the driver the fifty, he said "Bikas!"  So I searched my right pants pocket, where the single Sheckle was and then found three, which the driver was happy ro receive.

Most small miracles that happen to me are happy ones.  But some are playfully harmfull and a few are nasty.

I knowsome Egged drivers put the blame in me for the coversion of Jerusalem's local transit system from all-bus to light-rail trunks with bus feeders. 

Nate's latest find.  Electric locomotive test on the 9th Avenue Elevated.  I did some light editig so the contrast and shading of the rear of the train so it is now similar to the middle and not very different than the front.

 

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 29, 2022 4:33 PM

More from Nate with very little editing:

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, August 31, 2022 2:55 PM

Nate also sent a view of the 99th Stereet Shop with a work motor not elsewhere in my collection.  Some editing was done.

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Wednesday, August 31, 2022 10:40 PM

Hello Dave

 

Nate actually sends these out to a group of us - me and you included - on a group email list. I have had these 2 original Greenwich St 9AV EL shots for decades already -- the one with the " Y " junction is a copy scan of the exact image on page 72 of the William Fullerton Reeves Book.  The upper one I also have for decades - it also was seen in /  from another published NYC transit related book.  regards - Joe F

 

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:37 PM

Hello Dave

 

Nate sent his copy,  of this photo, out to everyone on the email list.  I also have had my own copy of this photo for very many years already - My father - after being a station agennt and later station master (in charge of his and the opposite station house agent's location) worked in the accounting offices above the El repair shops in the late 1930's and used that stairway at left of shops-offices building to get there from the street level at E.98th St (left) - view is west towards Lexington Ave from the El mainline. Here is my long ago much larger copy of that photo (click photo for larger image)  BELOW:  Regards - Joe F

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 1, 2022 4:11 AM

Thanks   Two very positive contributions to this thread.  I'll proceed to do the samr ophoto-straightening editing I did to Nate's copy, since the mainline elevated tracks were not curved, as you know.  This additionsal editing is absolutely not meant in any way as a criticism of your work, which can be.seen to be "state-of-the-art in other ways.  And we can all learn from each other.

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Thursday, September 1, 2022 7:44 AM

Hello Dave

Yes, I didn't notice the very very slight curvature of the one rail at very bottom track on the photo.  That could have been the result of using a wide angle lens on the camera.  Depending upon film format size (35MM or larger film).  I have experienced that situation to a very minor degree at times when I had to use a wide angle lens to capture more of a scene than the normal 50mm lens would allow - in cases where I was restricted (wall, fence, river edge, heh) in moving further back phyically to capture the scene without a wide angle assistance. 

I have no issue with the "straightening" process at all !   Regards - Joe F

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 1, 2022 8:35 AM

I hope to post the straightened rails this evening, with no other changes in an excellent photo.  The details are far better thsan in the photo I posted easrlier, psrticularly the two lighting towers.  The distantb one was also IRT.  The shop included fascilities between Madison and Park Avenues, with the only IRT grade crossing, a single non-pwered track, across Madison Avenue.  At one time it crossed two conduit streetca tracks!

All this  (except the streetcar tracks) is in previously posted pictures  on the 3rd Avenyue Elevate4d thread.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 1, 2022 2:28 PM

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Thursday, September 1, 2022 11:01 PM

Hello Dave

GOOD JOB on the straightening of lower rails on my larger copy version of the E.99St Yards photo --- even tho I can see where you took the straight sections of rail and wood guard timber at left side of photo, (BEFORE the curving defects starts) and copy-replicated it as repeated overlays over the curved sections working incrementally a few times left to right ! .  A standard edit-technique used commonly.  ! My program can also use the "retouch" mode which will erase the shadow perimeter lines, spots, defects,  of each one of these patches including the repeated recognizable details replicated by the first rectangular small patchwork panel created.  That which will give a seamless end result to the "repair" with no traces ! .  Otherwise - very GOOD job you did of lower track rail  and some of the planking mild straightening ! 

Regards - Joe F

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, September 2, 2022 5:04 AM

Note correction to previous post.  The other pix of the shop and the Mad. Av. crossing are on (obviously!) the newer 3rd Av. thread.  Apologies.

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