There's at least one manila folder and that one is interesting, IIRC. If we started publishing bits and pieces online, would any of you care to read it?
Steve SweeneyDigital Editor, Hobby
Absolutely! Don't stop at bits and pieces, if it's good enough it may be worth publishing in it's entirety!
Two master railroad writers corresponding, how could you beat it?
Of course.. make it so!
Miningman Of course.. make it so!
OK. Well, it's not my decision, just a suggestion. But if I can show that enough people might be interested ... that's what would work.
Maybe the biggest question is, what format would be best? ...
Just a straight, "Here is document A123:"
OR, should there be an accompanying text that introduces the letter, or series with replies and a refernce to the Trains article or person these guys are talking about?
My vote is for the additional background information but if it's just a straightforward post I'm certain the Classic Forum members will provide scads of additional information.
To think there are unpublished words of DPM! Nice find and resource to have.
What a find! I've always figured there are treasures lurking in the Kalmbach vault, and after 70 years that place must look like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdjf4lMmiiI
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Steve, if I may call you that, the letters have to be presented as any historic document should be presented. As in...
1) Time period.
2) Subject being discussed.
3) "Trains" magazine article being referenced, if any.
4) Here it is!
A more scholarly approach has to be taken than just "Here's document XYZ, have fun!" The document has to be presented in the context of it's time, especially if David the Great and Lucius are discussing something that may be of little relevance to us today.
I mean, if you go to the National Archives and see the original Declaration of Independence the NA doesn't say "Here it is! Dig it! Ain't it cool?"
'Dude, you're mistaken. That's not the Kalmbach archives, that's the "Classic Toy Trains" Lionel collection! And that's Roger Carp pushing the crate!
Flintlock76 I mean, if you go to the National Archives and see the original Declaration of Independence the NA doesn't say "Here it is! Dig it! Ain't it cool?"
I'd be more interested in the hidden treasure map on its back!
Flintlock76 that's the "Classic Toy Trains" Lionel collection! And that's Roger Carp pushing the crate!
Can't be! He's not making a run for his car!
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
SD70Dude Flintlock76 I mean, if you go to the National Archives and see the original Declaration of Independence the NA doesn't say "Here it is! Dig it! Ain't it cool?" I'd be more interested in the hidden treasure map on its back!
GROAN! Don't get me started on that dopey film! Fun, but dopey!
Although it was worthwhile seeing it for old Captain Sharpe himself, Sean Bean!
I just loved the "Sharpe" series!
Penny Trains Flintlock76 that's the "Classic Toy Trains" Lionel collection! And that's Roger Carp pushing the crate! Can't be! He's not making a run for his car!
Don't worry, Bob Keller's keeping an eye on him...
Flintlock76 SD70Dude Flintlock76 I mean, if you go to the National Archives and see the original Declaration of Independence the NA doesn't say "Here it is! Dig it! Ain't it cool?" I'd be more interested in the hidden treasure map on its back! GROAN! Don't get me started on that dopey film! Fun, but dopey! Although it was worthwhile seeing it for old Captain Sharpe himself, Sean Bean! I just loved the "Sharpe" series!
I liked it, but it didn't deserve a sequel.
There is an urban legend that Nick Cage got himself deep into debt somehow, and to pay it off he had to take pretty much every role he was offered.
I bet some of the treasure ended up getting moved on a railroad at some point (to keep this on-topic ).
Steve SweeneyThere's at least one manila folder and that one is interesting, IIRC. If we started publishing bits and pieces online, would any of you care to read it?
I for one would read it avidly... and start working on the article and probably book it would merit.
Sounds interesting, but I would have to see it to know. Perhaps publish some of the first letters, and see how it goes.
As far as I'm concerned the only people who wouldn't be interested are those who'd look at the names and say "David P. Morgan? Lucius Beebe? Who are they?"
Those people are to be pitied and educated as soon as possible!
Agree
If Beebe's prose was less florid and more readable, I might have actually given it serious consideration. I got the impression that he snoozed through freshman English in high school.
CSSHEGEWISCHIf Beebe's prose was less florid and more readable, I might have actually given it serious consideration. I got the impression that he snoozed through freshman English in high school.
You probably don't like much by Faulkner, or Finnegans Wake either. That's fine, but there's no need to add a comment about perceived lack of study habits because you don't like the style.
I don't care for much of Beebe's style, or some of his personal lifestyle either. Doesn't change the joy he brought with much of 'the rest of the story' (which we might well not have in any form, for all the Frimbos or DPMs we otherwise have) or more specifically the benefit (and delight!) some of us will have from seeing the letter correspondence between these two people for whom life certainly contained style.
While Lucius' writing style, not quite out of the 19th Century and not quite in to the 20th, takes some getting used to I've never really found it a problem.
Certainly, DPM was the better writer, I'll give you that. So was Rogers Whittaker, "E.M. Frimbo," who should be much better known among railfans than I think he is.
What Lucius really deserves credit for is making railfanning respectable, if that's the right term. If a New York sophisticate and bon-vivant like Lucius could admit to being absolutely ga-ga about trains there was no reason anyone else couldn't.
And Lucius does deserve the credit for originating the railbook as we know it today. Rail publishers like Four Ways West, Heimburger House, Monte Vista Publishing, Morning Sun and others all owe Lucius Beebe a debt of gratitude. He started it all.
I wonder if Beebe's letter writing style differs from his published style.
That's a good question, and it would be very interesting to find out!
I've only seen snippets of Beebe letters, and the style does seem less florid, but as I said, they're only snippets.
Flintlock76That's a good question, and it would be very interesting to find out!
Here we are, 21 posts in, and not a shred of the vaunted correspondence. Post some letters already!
I found a very amusing lecture, or retrospective, or stand-up routine, or something, about Lucius Beebe on YouTube, presented by a young man who I'm surprised even heard of him. Maybe I shouldn't be? Maybe he's "one of us?"
Anyway, it's 15 minutes long and fun to watch, a bit of "language" toward the end. I'm not sure if it's a Beebe quote, or Beebe quoting a railroad president, the presenter's not specific, but I suspect it's the latter. *
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlLqHqPD39M
A personal note: Lady Firestorm and I used to call him "Lucius Beebe, of whom we are not sure."
Then we saw a photograph of the interior of his private railcar "Virginia City."
Since then it's been "Yeah, we're sure!"
When we rode the Durango & Silverton in 2002 we spent the extra money and rode the parlor car. (Worth It! Trust me!) We were thrilled to find out a year or so ago the D&S parlor cars were used in Lucius' chartered narrow-gauge tour and he certainly rode in the car we did.
Not quite like being in a place where George Washington stayed, but pretty close!
* OK, I did some checking and the quote is from Beebe's "Mixed Train Daily," and it's not a Beebe quote. The quote is from D.W. Thomas, the owner of the Chesapeake Western, a short line that ran in Virginia from Elkton to Harrisonburg, and eventually to Staunton.
Where the presenter got the quote with the "F-Bombs" I have no idea, it's certainly NOT in "Mixed Train Daily," although the language is strong.
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That's Beebe the storyteller at his best!
And he loved the Virginia and Truckee! Broke his heart when it died.
And Mr. Steve, just where are those letters? We're getting antsy here!
The Overland Limited. Lucius Beebe
The Ritz Lucius Beebe
Wow. Mike's outdoing himself today! Thanks Vince for being the messenger!
If you folks like that, you should read Beebe's description of the morning "Parade O' Trains" down the east shore of the Hudson River, before THE train, the "20th Century" shows up. Truly magical. It's in the book "20th Century."
In "Overland Limited" I love Beebe's description of the route, what some just dismissively refer to as "Flyover Country" today.
Mr. Steve, look, just grab the folder of letters, scan 'em and post 'em. Just do it, as the Nike ad says. Easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.
Probably just as well Lucius died in 1966, the rest of the Sixties and what the world turned into would have killed him anyway.
Check this out, guess who's drinking champagne with Madeleine Carrol?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0031129/mediaviewer/rm2973435904
Regretfully, I'm beginning to suspect we're being trolled. (Perhaps it is that there's a Beebe-DPM folder, all right, but it's full of advertising contracts and not the sort of juicy correspondence promised...)
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