Besides Hudson's, Selkirks, and Jubilees, did CP apply streamling to any other engines?
Thank You.
Canadian Pacific would not let a steam locomotive to deteriorate that far on their property. Milwaukee did but any picture of locomotives at the scrap yard or in the process of being scrapped will be a very sad sight indeed regardless.
Flintlock76 I think this photo is fairly recent, but that Jubilee looks downright nasty. http://www.rgusrail.com/album/pascollection/cp_2929_04.jpg Canadian locomotive in an American collection or not, I think it's a damn disgrace to let it go like that. Maybe it's only skin-deep, and the innards aren't in bad shape, but if they can't take care of it they should de-accession it to someone who CAN take care of it.
I think this photo is fairly recent, but that Jubilee looks downright nasty.
http://www.rgusrail.com/album/pascollection/cp_2929_04.jpg
Canadian locomotive in an American collection or not, I think it's a damn disgrace to let it go like that. Maybe it's only skin-deep, and the innards aren't in bad shape, but if they can't take care of it they should de-accession it to someone who CAN take care of it.
Sad! Reminds me of how MILW "treat" their Class A and F-7 :
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
NDGMore Streamlined Locomotives. https://www.exporail.org/can_rail/Canadian%20Rail_no509_2005.pdf
https://www.exporail.org/can_rail/Canadian%20Rail_no509_2005.pdf
The faces on p.218 say it ALL.
FWIW. 2851 views.
Fr.Al Besides Hudson's, Selkirks, and Jubilees, did CP apply streamling to any other engines? On another note, if anybody gets up a project to revive Steamtown's Jubilee, I might kick in a few bucks. Or is it too far gone?
On another note, if anybody gets up a project to revive Steamtown's Jubilee, I might kick in a few bucks. Or is it too far gone?
Canadian locomotive in an American collection or not, I think it's a damn disgrace to let it go like that. Maybe it's only skin-deep, and the innards aren't in bad shape, but if they can't take care of it they should de-acession it to someone who CAN take care of it.
Fr.AlOn another note, if anybody gets up a project to revive Steamtown's Jubilee, I might kick in a few bucks. Or is it too far gone?
The problem is that 'too far gone' is relative to other things related to opportunity cost. The Jubilee is too small to run many of the prospective excursions out of Scranton, while probably having a minimum appetite for coal higher than, say, an Atlantic of comparable adhesion would. Dollar for dollar, anything spent at Steamtown would be better served on the B&M Pacific, which is more 'rightsized' as well, and which is much closer to operating completion -- speed the day!
Cosmetic restoration to 'stability' is another matter, which for Americans involves a certain amount of 'do we care?' factor. It's odd, it's specifically Canadian, it's not enough of a tourist draw to count as high priority. On the other hand, pay enough or get enough volunteer action and it could probably be vaulted up in priority...
I always prefer the streamlining of CP Jubilees to Royal Hudson...These smaller streamlined 4-4-4 grew on me in time. I didn't know they had a tough life in their old age though.
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Many Pacifics were semi streamlined but not the full treatment.
Montreal West November 2, 1951 Canadian Pacific Railway/Steve Morris Collection
Good eye there Overmod. That stack arraignment tells a story doesn't it. Sigh.
Sixty cars tied to its tail and making a good job of it?
That was one good piece of gear!
Still, kind of an insult to have a classy passenger locomotive pulling a freight. The N&W had Class J's pulling freights at the end too. Sacriledge!
That philistine Saunders had no class at all.
Miningmanhere we see Extra 2929 West bound for Smiths Falls with 60 cars! Might have been slippery getting underway but she made it.
In keeping with Larry Niven's characterization of a thrint, I think it might be wise, albeit not precisely exact, to think of this locomotive as substantially more than half a 'Mohawk that refused to abdicate' with, say, 120 cars on part of the Water Level Route.
There'd be issues with high-speed slipping and all the usual T1 problems about upsetting four-coupled adhesion on low joints and frogs and the like ... but that's likely in a speed range the 2900-class Jubilees didn't occupy much. (Although it is highly interesting to consider what one of these could have done with lightweight rods, one of the lighter disc mains for better angled balance accommodation, and some of the usual-suspects valve improvements...
I note with some potentially-unjust amusement the stack arrangement on that 'freight-painted' Jubilee. If anyone suspected this was lowball cost-cutting, note the expensively-ground-to-contour streamlined stack surround -- with the tall conventional stack sticking up out of it, utterly ruining the suave high-speed intent.
Here's the pic of a Jubilee hauling 60 cars.
Don't let anyone tell you a Jubilee couldn't pull much! More common on the prairies freight here we see Extra 2929 West bound for Smiths Falls with 60 cars! Might have been slippery getting underway but she made it. Dorval, Quebec April 5, 1958 Ron Ritchie/Ron Visockis digital restoration
I'd suspect that all-black Jubilee was probably photographed towards the end of it's life when it was most likely only getting enough maintanance to keep it alive until its diesel replacement showed up. Easier to paint it all black than do all the detail work it needed to look good in it's glory days.
Used in freight service? On a branch line possibly, where it wouldn't be pulling much to begin with.
MiningmanHere is a one-of only... A Jubilee in the freight paint scheme of all black. The logic of a high speed passenger locomotive used in freight haulage escapes me. The second batch built were not the 'real ones' as designed. They were hand fired to boot which must have been quite the workout. I have posted a pic a while ago of a Jubilee pulling 60 cars on the Smith Falls division. Must have been an ordeal getting underway.
The thing to remember here is that the 'small' Jubilees were not intended as high-speed anything; they were smaller and more economical power with the same sort of 'overkill' in firebox capacity as the Lima 4-8-6 style designs were at larger scale.
Illinois Central had quite a history of designing and modifying locomotives for freight service, some of which I believe we were discussing a few days ago: converting high-drivered Atlantics and Pacifics with ridiculous-seeming lower drivers (with no reduction of nominal cylinder dimensions!) as well as constructing a freight-only 4-6-4 (for fast limited-length manifest service, something that merits its own discussion). These were not particularly intended as 'dual-service' and I suspect it was understood that engineers would use care in starting.
SP had some interesting elderly Atlantics equipped with boosters (I believe they were 81"-drivered to boot!) that were observed running trains that seem in the realm of fiction -- is not one of these described in that trains-of-the-1940s book we discussed a while ago?
In Britain it was well-recognized that a good 4-6-0 could cover any service assigned to a nominally-larger Pacific -- the difference being in things 'other than performance'. It does not surprise me that a good 4-4-4 could start a train of 60 loads, and of course that it could "pull any train it could start". Of course that presumes knowledgeable and professional enginemen, but I think NDG and others have established just how good Canadians could be.
Well of course we know that. Only the streamlined versions got the crown. Do we really have to qualify every statement and delve into minutia about things that are obvious. The Classic Forum is a bit different and has a more mature, seasoned and knowledgable bunch of boneheads!
Here is a one-of only... A Jubilee in the freight paint scheme of all black.
The logic of a high speed passenger locomotive used in freight haulage escapes me. The second batch built were not the 'real ones' as designed. They were hand fired to boot which must have been quite the workout. I have posted a pic a while ago of a Jubilee pulling 60 cars on the Smith Falls division. Must have been an ordeal getting underway.
So if the CPR could do this with their Jubilees then the Pennsy could have hauled manifests with their T1's perhaps on some obscure secondary in a far flung corner of the empire, even after Diesels took over the mail and express trains.
2911 the only known Jubilee painted in freight colours. c.1957 Bruce Chapman Collection
With all due respects, CPR 2816 is NOT a Royal Hudson, that title is reserved for CPR 2820-2865.
Yeah that's it alright. I recall one night in particular. Must of been '58 or '59, with a flurry of whistles non stop and steam exhaust with both high speed not stopping at the station and low speed, stopping at the station sounds. It went on and on for hours.
There were 2 subdivisions that ended at the station and the 3 track mainline was both CNR and CPR. There were many passenger trains still coming and going to Niagara Falls, Windsor, Sarnia, London, Toronto, Chicago, New York, Fort Erie and Buffalo plus locals to Hamilton, Guelph and points North up to Lake Huron steamships.
There were 2 water towers and a coaling tower, icing sheds, tracks everywhere. Heck of a place.
Something must have caused backups up and down the line that night and then everything started moving again with quite the extended sound show.
Today one subdivision is gone, the station is gone, nothing stops, all the infrastructure is gone, there are no grade crossings at all as everything is overpass or underpass and it's a pretty strict quiet zone, no horns.
Commuter and Via are a mile away in a bus shelter thingie with a massive parking lot. Sterile, secular, about as exciting as suet pudding.
I can understand Vince, during the summers when the windows were open I would fall asleep to the Erie's diesel horns blowing for the crossings one town away.
Not the same as a steam whistle though. I would have loved that!
Thanks Firelock.. beautiful.
Royal Hudsons came through my hometown of Burlington regularly and that whistle on 2816 is exactly the sound I would fall asleep to for years. That sound has never been forgotten.
How's about some more super-cool CPR Hudson action?
Check this out, starring 2860 AND 2816!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLjZEZQklkY
Thanks for 'Mines in the Windermere Valley' .. terrific addon to my Milling course and Mining history.. Lots of different commodities too. The Cordellira has a complex and fascinating geological evolution and setting.
FWIW.
Oh well, at least they're still around. "Where there's life, there's hope."
The CN/CP "no steam" policy could always change as well, usually takes a mangement flip and for a closet railfan to end up in the CEO's chair.
On 28 September 2006, the Royal Hudson steamed into the WCRA Squamish station under her own power for the first time since October 1999. The restoration took just over one year with a cost of over $250,000. Money for the restoration was provided wholly by donations. The WCRA also had difficulty locating missing parts. Some of the major components, such as the trailing truck, were borrowed from sister engine 2850. The borrowed parts had to be returned when 2850 was put on public display. WCRA replaced the borrowed tailing truck with one that was being used at a mine, which had salvaged the truck from a Royal Hudson due for scrap. The truck turned out to have been taken off of 2860 when she was sitting on the scrap line in the 1960s. The association plans to operate 2860 on excursion runs and at special events. Due to the strict "no steam" policy that CP and CN have, the excursions are restricted to special occasions only. 2860 is steamed up regularly for publicity and to salute passing passenger trains.
On 9 December 2010, the ex-CP 2860 and the Royal Hudson trainset were scheduled to depart North Vancouver for Squamish at 12:30 pm on the last of its scheduled excursion trips in 2010. The ex-CP 2860's certification expired in January 2011 and the cost of the necessary work is estimated at over $1 million CAD. The December 9 trip is likely to be her last for a long time.
As for 6060:
https://www.absteamtrain.com/sch6060.html
You're welcome all, although Mike the Wanswheel deserves the credit for finding the royal tour footage, I was just the instrument for passing it along.
Anyone know what's going on with that BC Royal Hudson now? Any plans to run it again? And how about "Bullet-Nose Bettie?"
Seeing all the traffic in the double-head video reminded me of something Andy Muller of the Reading & Northern said back in the 90's...
"When I run an excursion behind a diesel, even a vintage diesel, nobody notices. But when I run a steam excursion I stop traffic for miles around!"
Flintlock76 Miningman Well there goes my Royal Hudson thread. Had to happen, as soon as you brought up the Borg! No problem, I can fix that! Here's Royal Hudson 2860 co-starring with "Bullet Nose Betty." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba4E_rzBUgE
Miningman Well there goes my Royal Hudson thread.
Well there goes my Royal Hudson thread.
Had to happen, as soon as you brought up the Borg!
No problem, I can fix that! Here's Royal Hudson 2860 co-starring with "Bullet Nose Betty."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba4E_rzBUgE
That's a very good choice of a youtube video of the 1939 Royal Tour, thank you for posting it, Wayne. I think this scene is very beautiful:
Source: Rapido
By the way, the "Bullet Nose Betty" was probably one of the most economical ways to streamlining a steam engine, I think it looks good enough.
Flintlock-- That doubleheader --Best video I've seen in a while! You are completely absolved and have restored the thread.
Bettie
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
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