Trinity River Bottoms Boomer I'm sure that the people that call home in the Prairie provinces love their prairie, wheat and cows as well, and would like to see train service restored to their hometown too!
I'm sure that the people that call home in the Prairie provinces love their prairie, wheat and cows as well, and would like to see train service restored to their hometown too!
Looks like VIA did propose a Prairie Inter-city service back in the early 1980s when the LRCs were first entering service. (quote below from an old Transport 2000 Bulletin)
“Ten Trains (22 Locomotives and 50 Cars) will go into operation in 1980. Three have been assigned to the new Quebec-Montreal-Ottawa service (6-7 trains per day via CP lines except CN Central Station in Montreal) Tentative plans also call for 5 of the trains to operate in inter-city service on the Prairies, and the remaining two in the Maritimes. Possible routes here might be inter-city runs Halifax-Sydney and Halifax-Saint John or an all-daytime Halifax-Saint John-Montreal run.”
I’m just guessing, but possible Prairie routes might have been: Winnipeg-Regina-Calgary, Winnipeg-Saskatoon-Edmonton and Edmonton-Red Deer-Calgary…….or perhaps the so-called Winnipeg-Regina-Saskatoon & Saskatoon-Edmonton “Prairie Schooner” that VIA did run in the early ‘80s when the Super Continental was first axed.
Other tid-bits:
Wonder how that Quebec-Montreal-Ottawa route on CP except for Central Station would have got through Montreal? Perhaps the LRCs would have taken the same route as VIA did with the CP Quebec City/Trois Riviere Dayliners....leaving CP at Jacques Cartier Jct.....through Eastern Jct and onto the Mt Royal Tunnel line…..then just continued on out the south side of the Central Station taking the usual route to Dorval with a reverse move on the Pool Train connecting track to access CP again.
And that all daytime Atlantic Inter-city Halifax-Saint John-Montreal route across Maine would have been fun.
ghCBNS, I see your point. Perhaps the Rocky Mountaineer people would be the ones to consider operating intercity train service from Vancouver on the CPR to Winnipeg making connections with VIA's Canadian?
Not much to see? How about observing a storm that is busy producing lots of thunder lightning wind and rain from a dome car. Mother Nature putting on her very best show while you're safe and sound riding the rails. Not even Bob Ross could paint that well!
Regarding the reroute of The Canadian to CPR: Guess I've just been listening to C&W artist George Hamilton IV's recording of Canadian Pacific too often of late!
Miningman Passenger service Winnipeg-Regina-Calgary as suggested ...not much to see really...whole lot of prairie, wheat and cows. Pretty flat though.
Passenger service Winnipeg-Regina-Calgary as suggested ...not much to see really...whole lot of prairie, wheat and cows. Pretty flat though.
But it's an Intercity service that might actually serve local passengers instead of the tourist going all the way. Not much scenery on a lot of VIA's Intercity routes in the corridor...... and pretty flat too...but they ssem to do quite well!
Genesee & Wyoming's Huron Central from Sudbury to the Sault then Agawa Canyon/ (Algoma Central) to CPR mainline.
Not going to happen anyway.
Miningman How about Halifax-Montreal-Toronto-Sudbury-Sault Ste. Marie-Thunder Bay-Winnipeg. Then combine with a Chicago-Milwaukee-St. Paul-Winnipeg. Onward to Regina-Calgary-Vancouver.
How about Halifax-Montreal-Toronto-Sudbury-Sault Ste. Marie-Thunder Bay-Winnipeg. Then combine with a Chicago-Milwaukee-St. Paul-Winnipeg. Onward to Regina-Calgary-Vancouver.
How are you going to get from Sault Ste Marie to Thunder Bay? on the Keewatin??
Trinity River Bottoms Boomer The worse sin committed since Adam and Eve were evicted from the Garden of Eden was taking The Canadian off CP and putting it onto CN rails. VIA should return it to the CPR.....
The worse sin committed since Adam and Eve were evicted from the Garden of Eden was taking The Canadian off CP and putting it onto CN rails. VIA should return it to the CPR.....
Why?? CP's Canadian was an old dowager! This is VIA's Canadian and it's been on this route for over 27 years. It is VIA that refurbished and HEP'd the old CP equipment.....implemented Silver & Blue Class.....and more recently Prestige Class with amenities CP could only dream about!
Want to see the spiral tunnels.....ride the Rocky Mountaineer! But leave VIA's Canadian where it should be on route through Jasper where along millions have enjoyed it for nearly three decades.
If you want a new train on CP.....perhaps a daytime intercity service: Winnipeg-Regina-Calgary-Banff.
Cape Churchill on The Red Wing at B&M North Station, Boston. June 6, 1954 Lawson Hill/John Hutchins Collection
Diagram of floor plan Cape cars. CPR Circular 62-10 Assignment of Space. Old Time Trains Archives
Glad to hear Dave is OK.
ALL:
The following is from Dave Klepper:
"On the Classic Trains Forum, the 2nd Canadian car order, there is a post that says that the Boston Montreal overnight Red Wing, B&M-CP, lost its sleepers in 1946. This is not true. I rode overnight in a sleeper on this train in 1959 on my way to ride the last of the Montreal streetcars and then overnight to Quebec to ride last-day operations and the post-last-day fan-trip of CN's Quebec-St. Joachim interurban. I do not remember what kind of car it was or whether I had a lower berth or a roomette. I do remember that Russ Jackson and I shared a double-bedroom on the CP overnight Montreal-Quebec after a day with the Montreal streetcars. (Montreal North, Milen, and Cartiaville were the three lines still running.) And that there was still some steam on the CP, watching a beautiful CP Pacific being turned on the turntable at the CP roundhouse not far from the interurban terminal in Quebec."
To coin a TV show my mother watched in the dark ages of black and white: Let's Make a Deal: Canadian Pacific with Rocky Mountaineer. Would that work? Depots and stations need not be constructed on a grand scale either!
There is nothing stopping a private company from purchasing new equipment, say "Superliner type" and cutting a deal with the CPR to run a transcon train on that route but do not hold your breath for that one. CPR Stations en route have been converted into Casino's, such as in Regina, so the problems mount.
VIA Rail has nothing but politics and no money so forget that. There would be 200 groups from farmers to climate change folks, every social advocacy group and everything in between not to mention the provincial governments, all howling and demanding equal monies, their mouths wide open like chicks in a nest.
As for VIA asking the CPR permission to use the maroon and grey scheme I would think that CP would harshly turn that one down. They would not want to be so besmirched, and they use it for their corporate executive train.
Of course CP could do this themselves...ha ha.ha,ha,ha.
Trinity River Bottoms BoomerBy the way, who is Pete?
Probably a fellow who formerly went by the name of Simon bar-Jona; an associate of that known radical Oily Josh...
Canadians can almost have their cake in the dining car and eat it too since Canadian National tested two PA1s which were painted in the attractive green and gold scheme. Rebuilt to PA2s, they were sold to Miss Katy.
The worse sin committed since Adam and Eve were evicted from the Garden of Eden was taking The Canadian off CP and putting it onto CN rails. VIA should return it to the CPR and create a new train for the CNR route. Paint power for The Canadian in maroon and gray for Pete's* sake while you're at it!
*By the way, who is Pete?
The only "real" connection between the B&M and the Soo was the brief operation of a through car from Boston to Minneapolis/St. Paul via Montreal and Sault Ste. Marie in the 1890s. That route may have predated CP's control of the Soo. Not sure if it was a CP sleeper or Pullman, but odds are it was CP.
CP passenger cars regularly crossed the border. There weren't any particular inspection requirements other than normal suitability for interchange. Amtrak has borrowed equipment from VIA in recent years, as well as running its own equipment to Canada on three routes. Locomotives, on the other hand, were watched by the customs authorities, I guess to make sure they weren't being smuggled across illegally. CP had its own cross-border operations, as did CN, GN, and Michigan Central. Soo Line, B&M and Maine Central units regularly operated into Canada on jointly operated trains.
A more interesting divide was sleeper operation. Soo Line hosted CP cars, ran its own, and participated in at least one Pullman "Line" with the Milwaukee Road. CP operated Pullman sleepers with B&M/MEC and CN (Gull) and New York Central (various Chicago-Toronto-Montreal trains) and probably others.
NDGI know not the connections Btwn the Soo and the B&M and CPR.
My opinion 'all along' is that there is no connection between the Soo and the B&M except, circumstantially, through CPR 'joint operations'.
A question for someone like rcdrye is whether cars owned in Canada that operate 'through' into the United States on a regular basis need special features or inspections. That might account for the use of the 1907 cars in later over-the-border service.
Meanwhile, I have seen a picture of Fernie in service, I think during the WWI years, in strictly CPR service (which matches my general understanding of the 'donut hole' for these cars between the cessation of the fancy Soo-Spokane train and the start of the Alouette/Red Wing in 1926). It might be interesting to know what trains got these and the "V" Pullmans in those intervening years. (I will try to find that picture -- it is in one of those 'anthology' books like The Lore Of The Train, I think...
If you still have the pictures, I'd like to see some of the details of how those cars were framed.
The Red Wing, CPR and B&M's joint Montreal-Boston train (via Wells River VT and Plymouth NH) carried a CPR sleeper - unusual in joint CP trains that ran in the US, with the exception of Soo Line trains. Fernie was a relatively modern steel underframe car that B&M would have had no trouble using. By 1933 traffic on both CP and B&M would have dropped enough that steel cars would be available for all assignments. The Red Wing sleeper was rerouted via White River Jct around 1933 (on the combined Red Wing and B&M/CV/CN New Englander) and may have become a Pullman, since the B&M/MEC/CP/CN Gull (Boston-Halifax) lost its Boston-St. John NB CP-owned sleeper about that time. All of B&M's Boston-Montreal overnight services lost their sleepers early, the Mount Royal around 1930, the Red Wing around 1946 and the New Englander around 1950.
Long ago.Thank You.
NDG- "The latter train passing by the end of the street where I am now."
Revelstoke?
I thought "Fernie" was one of the four elegant observation cars built for the 1907 Soo-Spokane service (#752). Here is a page with some information.
Fernie shows as retired in 1933, and perhaps gone by 1939; if there is a "B&M connection" it might be the Alouette/Red Wing (as mentioned by rcdrye) after 1926, but I'm not sure a 1907 Barney & Smith car would run in those trains. I don't show any indication B&M bought "Fernie" after retirement from CPR, but I'll continue looking.
Thank You.
NDGThey had to get Es for the Boston trains as B&M already had E7s and it would look uncool to hand off the Limiteds to lowly old STEAM off 'Short Line' B&M back in the day.
The E's were bought as part of a pool agreement with B&M, used on the Allouette and Red Wing, with units running through from Boston to Montreal. The same thing had been done in steam days, with CP 4-6-0s and 4-6-2s running to Boston. The pool was dropped around the time the Allouette was rerouted via White River Jct from its traditional route via Plymouth. It was later re-equipped with RDCs, which were also pooled.
MiningmanThe Mulroney government restored service '85 until discontinuance again in '94.
The Mulroney Government made even more drastic cuts to VIA in January 1990 than Trudeau had in ’81 and the Atlantic just barely survived….now as a tri-weekly train.
VIA undertook a program to HEP the former CP fleet in the late ‘80s and the Atlantic was fully converted in January 1993. It was now a Stainless Steel train resembling the Canadian complete with a Skyline Dome and Park Car. The consists were interchangeable with the Ocean…. alternating one day via Saint John and Campbellton the next.
The Atlantic lasted until December 15, 1994 when CP abandoned their line across Maine. That track survives today as a shortline operation but can you imagine the logistic today if the Atlantic was still running with 2 border crossings each way when you consider the delays the Adirondack and Maple Leaf encounter with 1 crossing.
RED BARNS
Known officially as a model SD40-2F, this locomotive was built by General Motors of Canada (known as GMD or GMDD, closed in 2012) at their plant in London Ontario and was one of twenty five of that series constructed in 1988/89. They were numbered 9000-9024. Now languishing in the dead lines at Ogden shops in Calgary, this unit was only recently retried, in mid December to be exact. Other members of the class have or will see a similar fate, while the best of the bunch will continue to soldier on for the time being.
What makes it stand out is that it was built with a full cowl body. For a time this arrangement was quite popular in Canada with other carriers, but only sampled once by the CPR. When compared with a typical hood unit, the cowl style handles snowy conditions better. For a time, starting in the early 1980s all the way to the early 1990s all the Canadian National Railways new locomotives, those built by the Montreal Locomotive Works (aka Bombardier, the originator of the design), and those from GMD and GE, were all built in this form. Other smaller Canadian carriers, BC Rail for one, also rostered cowl units, but in this case from General Electric.
CPR however seemed quite content with the standard hood units except for this one order. In the end, there were some severe limitations to the design and it eventually it fell out of favour. The tapered side was hard to see out when backing the unit up, it made maintenance more challenging and the initial cost to purchase was higher.
This style of locomotive was never sold to a US railway, although CPR’s could be seen travelling in there.
NDG- You have several friends here on the forum as well ...So don't forget about that or us! Private email me anytime you want. I'm sure RME would be glad to hear from you as well.
Re: Cut and Paste the image of the PA.
If you are using an Apple iPad or anything with a touchscreen all you have to do is press your finger on the image. A window will pop up asking either "save" or "copy". Press copy with your finger. Then you can go to wherever you want to paste the image. Hold your finger on the screen and a window will pop up ...press paste and bingo there is the image.
If there is text you want to save hold your finger anywhere in the text. It will turn blue with 2 little bars that you can expand with your fingers by scolling with the little ball image that is on top of the bar. When you have outlined what you would like to copy then hold down the outlined blue area with your finger and press "copy" when it appears. Then again go to where you want to paste it. Hold your finger on the screen and press on the word "paste". This one takes a little bit of patience at first, but an acquired skill comes fairly quickly.
I will punt the ball to a Windows user for use on that system because it has a bit more to explain, although it is not too hard at all.
Life goes on, btwn Funerals.
How about a dozen or so of these^ ...nice in grey and maroon...actually have an A-B-A in N Scale, 2nd A in script.
Oh well, didn't happen.
Glad to see you are up and about NDG..how's the tooth. Tried sending a private email through the personal settings but do not know if you received it.
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