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Truman and Eisenhower

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, June 6, 2017 7:55 PM

I did not know about the 720th Operating Battalion being C&NW and the 757th Railway Shop Battalion being CMSt.P&P.

So not only performing Herculean service at home, these entities, and others obviously, contributed in a very significant way directly to defeating the axis powers. These guys were true heroes. I'm sure little of the glory and recognition were given these fellas.

Fast forward 10 scant years and the writing is on the wall. Serious decline, deferred maintence, massive layoffs, even mockery is evident. 

10 more and the railroads are approaching unrecognizable from their importance and role 20 years earlier. 

Well I honour those men, the C&NW and The Milwaukee Road in making D-Day secure in its success. 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, June 6, 2017 6:27 PM

Ike looks like a tough commander speaking to those paratroopers, but if I remember correctly his first words to them were "Any of you guys from Kansas?"

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, June 6, 2017 1:21 PM

Excerpt from Railroaders in Olive Drab: The Military Railway Service in WWII

https://armyhistory.org/railroaders-in-olive-drab-the-military-railway-service-in-wwii/

…Eleven days after the Allies landed on 6 June 1944, a small detachment of MRS troops arrived to assess the railroad facilities in the beachhead, estimate damage to rails and yards, and locate available locomotives.  Using a Jeep equipped with flanged wheels, the detachment surveyed the lines from the landing area to the port of Cherbourg.  On 2 July, the 729th Railway Operating Battalion arrived in Normandy and took over operations at the Cherbourg terminals.  Assisted by French engine crews and volunteers, the American railroaders repaired roundhouses, shop buildings, engines, and rolling stock while Army engineers cleared the rail line from Cherbourg to Carentan.  Nine days after arriving in France, the 729th operated the first passenger train between the two cities.

The 720th Railway Operating Battalion (Chicago and North Western Railway) arrived in France on 15 July and began to rehabilitate and operate approximately sixty-two miles of track between Bayeux and Lisieux.  Three days later, the 757th Railway Shop Battalion (Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific Railroad) went to work at Cherbourg.  In August, another three operating battalions and two more shop battalions arrived.  By the end of the month, the MRS was operating 1,006 miles of track and had carried 29,450 passengers on 251 trains and moved 136,169 tons of military freight on 991 trains.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, December 31, 2016 4:36 PM

Peter, those black GG1's were pretty appropriate to the train, although they showed a certain lack of imagination on the Penn Central's part otherwise as far as locomotive color schemes are concerned.

Then again, as a writer for "Trains" once put it:  "The Penn Central merger was a marriage made in Hell, and the bride wore black!"

The rest of the consist was still in Pennsylvania RR "Tuscan Red," and the cars still had "Pennsylvania" lettered on the sides. 

Wayne

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Posted by M636C on Saturday, December 31, 2016 4:22 PM

Firelock76

Bobby K's funeral train, how sad it was.

It wasn't all bad of course, but 1968 had to be one of the most dismal years of the 20th Century. A dismal year in a dismal decade.  We were all glad when it was over.

Thanks, Wanswheel! 

It will be fifty years next year...

The Robert Kennedy funeral train was I think, the first live news broadcast from overseas in Australia. I guess they had the satellites by then and this was the first item regarded as important enough to broadcast. I was at home (I was a university student then) and watched the coverage. I tried to note the locomotive and vehicle numbers, and since TV was only black and white in Australia until 1975, tried to work out what colour things were. The Black PC GG1s were pretty obvious....

Peter

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, December 31, 2016 11:09 AM

Bobby K's funeral train, how sad it was.

It wasn't all bad of course, but 1968 had to be one of the most dismal years of the 20th Century. A dismal year in a dismal decade.  We were all glad when it was over.

Thanks, Wanswheel!

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Posted by wanswheel on Friday, December 30, 2016 11:49 AM
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Posted by wjstix on Friday, December 30, 2016 9:10 AM

Firelock76

Someone mentioned Bobby Kennedy earlier...

Despite his win in the California primary, and assuming he lived, Bobby wasn't going to be the Democratic candidate for president in 1968, no way, no how, the fix was in for Hubert Humphrey, who was a decent man in all respects and had earned his shot at the presidency having been a good Democratic soldier for all his political life.  Not to say there wouldn't have been some squabbling and floor fights between delegates and partisans of Humphrey and Kennedy, but it was going to be Humphrey at the end.

Back in those days all the primarys were used for was to give prospective candidates a bit of experience out on the campaign trail and had no other purpose, not like today.  Party leaders back then knew primary elections only attracted the party faithful and what we'd call nowadays the "political junkies" and wouldn't necessarily reflect what the turnout of the general public would be.  Final selection of the candidates was done at the conventions by votes of the convention delegates, not like today where the conventions are essentially "coronation" ceremonys.  The best Bobby might have gotten was the vice-presidental candidacy. 

As it was, Humphrey got close to beating Nixon in the election but just couldn't distance himself enough from LBJ and the Vietnam fiasco to get the win.

I just thought of this.  If you want to see a great illustration of how conventions used to work there's a fine movie biography of Woodrow Wilson that was made in 1944 (in Technicolor as well!) called appropriately enough, "Wilson."  Alexander Knox plays Wilson, and quite well, and the whole convention process, the nominations, the wheeling-and-dealing for delegate votes, the demonstrations are all there.  And that's just the way it was.  A great film to watch if you get the chance.

 

 
Robert Kennedy in 1968 was a little bit like Bernie Sanders in 2016 - an insider (sitting US Senator) running as a fiery liberal 'outsider'. I think if he had lived, he would have had an effect on the general election, particularly (as was talked about at the time) if he had been Humphrey's running mate. We now know that, although he publicly toed the line, that HHH had been against the war at least since 1966. I think RFK could have persuaded Humphrey to come out sooner against the war. Once HHH came out against the Vietnam War (in the "Las Vegas Speech") his poll numbers began gaining and continued to gain over the last weeks of the campaign.
 
BTW I haven't seen "Wilson" for a while, but remember seeing it several times back when it was a staple of the "afternoon movie" (or whatever it was called) on local TV 40+ years ago. I always remember it as being a very good movie.
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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, December 24, 2016 3:34 PM

Looks like Ike is having more fun with those trains than the kids are!

Then again, his father was a railroad man.

Harry's smiling so much I'm wondering what he's got in those packages?  Doesn't look like a train set.  Maybe an assortment of fine bourbons?  Harry was a drinkin' man, after all.

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, December 24, 2016 3:03 PM

Absolutely fabulous Wanswheel. Absolutely fabulous. 

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Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, December 24, 2016 2:55 PM

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, December 23, 2016 10:29 PM

Once the D&RG acquired the RGW (the western connection for both the CM and D&RG) the CM became a dead man walking.  Nothing the USRA did or didn't do would have changed the inevitable outcome.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, December 23, 2016 9:17 PM

Regarding the CM, I just read an article that mentions them.  The article was actually about the RI in Colorado which connected with the CM in Colorado Springs.  The author said the USRA tried routing too much traffic over the CM because it was the shortest route at the time.  Once the CM bogged down, they routed all the traffic away from it.  One extreme to the other, thus eventually killing the CM. 

Jeff  

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 23, 2016 12:29 PM

No sooner than A.E. Carlton had made purchase of the CM he started a major rebuilding project to bring the road up to current engineering standards of the time just as WWI broke out.  True, the road was in poor operating condition but a certain amount of high priority war traffic could have still be routed over the CM. 

The Braindead USRA officials were too damn stupid to realise this of course.  On the other hand, the sheer fact that D&RG wanted to see the CM disappear completely out of the Official Guide might have had something to do with the complete shutdown of the road when it occured as well.

Like JFK, we will never know the entire truth of what went on behind closed doors.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, December 23, 2016 10:06 AM

Trinity River Bottoms Boomer

It was a total lack of sanity when the USRA shut down the Colorado Midland, which was the shortest route over the Rocky Mountains at the time and was in the prime position to move priority war material from the west to the east for transport to the European war zone.  Looking at DC today, not much has changed in 100 years!

CM had that traffic routed over it when the USRA assumed operations.  Unfortunately, the road was an operating nightmare, poorly maintained, and couldn't handle the traffic. 

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, December 23, 2016 12:59 AM

Wjs does require a reply.  If regulations had been applied fairly and subsidization of highway transportation less blatent and disproportional, you would be correct.  Because of the tilt toward highway transportation, the USA delayed the economic benefits of intermodal freight, and weakened the ability of railroads to modernize.  

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 22, 2016 1:08 PM

It was a total lack of sanity when the USRA shut down the Colorado Midland, which was the shortest route over the Rocky Mountains at the time and was in the prime position to move priority war material from the west to the east for transport to the European war zone.  Looking at DC today, not much has changed in 100 years!

 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, December 22, 2016 8:43 AM

Someone mentioned Bobby Kennedy earlier...

Despite his win in the California primary, and assuming he lived, Bobby wasn't going to be the Democratic candidate for president in 1968, no way, no how, the fix was in for Hubert Humphrey, who was a decent man in all respects and had earned his shot at the presidency having been a good Democratic soldier for all his political life.  Not to say there wouldn't have been some squabbling and floor fights between delegates and partisans of Humphrey and Kennedy, but it was going to be Humphrey at the end.

Back in those days all the primarys were used for was to give prospective candidates a bit of experience out on the campaign trail and had no other purpose, not like today.  Party leaders back then knew primary elections only attracted the party faithful and what we'd call nowadays the "political junkies" and wouldn't necessarily reflect what the turnout of the general public would be.  Final selection of the candidates was done at the conventions by votes of the convention delegates, not like today where the conventions are essentially "coronation" ceremonys.  The best Bobby might have gotten was the vice-presidental candidacy. 

As it was, Humphrey got close to beating Nixon in the election but just couldn't distance himself enough from LBJ and the Vietnam fiasco to get the win.

I just thought of this.  If you want to see a great illustration of how conventions used to work there's a fine movie biography of Woodrow Wilson that was made in 1944 (in Technicolor as well!) called appropriately enough, "Wilson."  Alexander Knox plays Wilson, and quite well, and the whole convention process, the nominations, the wheeling-and-dealing for delegate votes, the demonstrations are all there.  And that's just the way it was.  A great film to watch if you get the chance.

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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, December 21, 2016 9:01 PM

https://www.jfklibrary.org/About-Us/About-the-JFK-Library/History/1985-Tribute-by-President-Reagan.aspx

Excerpt from JFK Library legislative summary
Senate Joint Resolution — 102 Public Law 88-108, approved August 28,1963 
With only two dissenting votes the Senate approved a resolution providing for the settlement of the labor dispute between certain carriers by railroad and certain of their employees. The resolution established an independent board to arbitrate the 4-year dispute over rail companies' proposals to eventually eliminate the jobs of about 37,000 firemen and additional thousands of other train crew members. Briefly the resolution would

Establish a seven-member arbitration board, composed of two members appointed by the carriers and two by the unions. These four members would name the three public members. If they are unable to agree, the President will appoint the public members.

Limit arbitration to the two primary issues: Firemen and crew size.

(a) Firemen: Railroads contend firemen are no longer needed on diesel locomotives in freight and yard service. Railroads propose that all firemen jobs ultimately be eliminated. The unions contend firemen are essential for safe and efficient operation, and that firemen are training for engineer positions.

(b) Crew size: Current railroad practice generally calls for a train complement of one conductor and two brakemen riding outside the cab. Railroads seek to eliminate this practice. They want a national rule that would give them the unrestricted right to determine appropriate crew sizes. The union want a national rule establishing one conductor and two brakemen as the minimum crew for all trains.

Require the arbitration board to take up the two key issues, hold hearings, and announce its decisions within 90 days after enactment of the legislation. However, the board's decision cannot go into effect for another 60 days while the parties continue negotiations on secondary issues in light of the advantages and disadvantages each receives from the arbitrated ruling.

Require the lapse of 30 days after the key issues become effective before parties can strike over any secondary issue. Secondary issues are:

(a) Under current rules a long-haul train has to stop at each division boundary line to take on a new crew. Railroads seek the right to set up interdivisional runs as they please, changing crews only when necessary for safety and efficiency.

(b) Over the years a jurisdictional distinction has developed with regard to the work to which road service and yard service crews are entitled. Carriers seek to eliminate this distinction; the unions want to prohibit further combination of jobs.

(c) Wages paid an on-train worker are currently determined by the number of miles traveled, hours worked, length of train, or weight of locomotive. Carriers propose a series of adjustments that would have the effect of reducing on-train wages. Unions propose wage changes having the effect of a pay raise.

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, December 21, 2016 2:12 PM

The USRA was created because the private railroads failed. Eastern ports were jammed with freight cars, ships headed to Europe were delayed because of it, and the railroads argued amongst themsevles who would clean it all up. The government for the good of the war effort stepped in temporarily and got things rolling again. BTW unlike most countries, the US has maintained a private rail system. Many European countries had government-run railroads by 1950, some before 1900. I don't consider regulation to be the same as operating...or 'improperly intervening'. Yes, Staggers was one of the best things Jimmy Carter did, but the idea that the railroads would be SO much better if it wasn't for that nasty government getting in their way just doesn't hold up.

I agree that Amtrak should be better funded, and expanded.

Stix
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 21, 2016 1:04 PM

Will Classic Trains please inform Model Railroader to delete the Free 24 Hour Trial accesss to the MR magazine archives.  This offer has expired and retaining it on Kalmbach websites is false advertising!

MERRY CHRISTMAS

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 21, 2016 12:48 PM

I find it interesting as well as amusing that the USA who proudly calls itself a Free Enterprise nation has a government who has grossly improperly intervened in railroad affairs starting in WWI with the USRA and continues to this day! 

The government stopped the Colorado Midland dead in it's tracks during WWI when CM should have been given the task of handling only the priority goods essential to the war effort; the government should have supported electrification of the CM&StP's Pacific Extention; should have approved the John W. Barriger III plan to consolidate the railroads during the Great Depression when Mr. B was serving on the RFC and they should have been required to read the 1956 book Barriger authored, Super Railroads for a Dynamic American Economy (Simmons-Boardman) to educate themselves in the railroad business. 

Additionally, Washington DC has never properly funded Amtrak so it could expand much less introduce long distant high speed trains to the most advanced nation this planet has ever witnessed!  Instead, the Stooges in DC have kept their heads stuck up a potbelly stove for over 100 years, still believe the land grant myth, and aren't even aware that cabooses no longer bring up the rear end of freight trains! 

Compared to many countries, including third world and banana republics who support the future of their railroads, the braindead politicians in the US are content with a Wooden Axle Railroad concept for the 21st Century, support super trucks on an interstate highway system that is fast falling apart at an alarming rate, and want to construct a pipeline across land that is sacred to Native Americans.

MERRY CHRISTMAS?  Gads, what a thought.... 

 

 

     

 

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, December 21, 2016 10:05 AM

Miningman

So then the obvious question is had NYC/C&O. Pennsy/N&W happened would Staggers have occurred? It's sort of like, so sadly and pathetically, stoplights are not put in until there are fatalities. 

I would think that the merger alignments suggested would have delayed the collapse in the Northeast but not prevented it.  There was enough red ink coming out of PRR and NYC that it would have absorbed a fair chunk, if not all, of the coal profits of the Pocahontas railroads.  Dereg would have come at about the same time based on the political climate (Commercial aviation was de-regulated at about the same time).

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, December 21, 2016 8:56 AM

Dave K.- You think the Pennsy executive and employees would allow "Norfolk" top billing...not a chance. How about "Union Atlantic" as in Union Pacific. Ah, probably not.

New York, Chesapeake, and Ohio Central works ok. Very railroady. Not quite as clumsy as Burlington Northern Santa Fe is. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, December 21, 2016 4:37 AM

Instead of Norfolk Southern, Norfolk Pennsylvania?

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 9:57 PM

So then the obvious question is had NYC/C&O. Pennsy/N&W happened would Staggers have occurred? It's sort of like, so sadly and pathetically, stoplights are not put in until there are fatalities. 

That was the way to go and should have but what were the repercussions? It would be nice to have grey, black and yellow diesels. Have no idea what Pennsy/N&W would have called themselves. 

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Posted by K4sPRR on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 9:00 PM

MidlandMike

Conrail was a sucsessor to PC, which should never have been formed in the first place.  Before the PC merger, NYC and C&O tried to merge but were stopped by ICC.  PRR already owned NW.  They would have been better fits.  The Conrail split to CSX and NS fixed the PC mistake.

 

 

Good point Mike, everyone except the government seemed to understand that.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 8:44 PM

Conrail was a sucsessor to PC, which should never have been formed in the first place.  Before the PC merger, NYC and C&O tried to merge but were stopped by ICC.  PRR already owned NW.  They would have been better fits.  The Conrail split to CSX and NS fixed the PC mistake.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 4:25 PM

daveklepper

Thanks for the correction.  So it was really CSX’s desire to buy all of Conrail that precipitated the division.  If CSX had gotten the whole railroad, it would have had a huge competitive advantage over NS.  So the compromise we have was worked out.

CSX & NS became involved in a bidding war over all of ConRail, after bid and counter bid through a number of iterations the companies ended up with the compromise 42/58 split between CSX & NS that is what is in place today, along with the creation of the jointly owned Shared Assets operations in New Jersey and the Greater Detroit area.  At the time the deal was finally concluded, the financial experts felt that the finally settled price for ConRail two to three times what the real value of the property was.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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