If you were modelling a Honeywell plant, you'd want to have a few protesters outside. That started in the 1960's due to their making electronics for the US Defense Dept., like triggers for bombs and such, as part of the anti-Vietnam war movement. It continued into the 1980's or even later during the "no nukes" era, as they made parts used for atomic bombs and related items.
An interesting twist is Honeywell in the 1960's was one of the first companies to hire women for manufacturing jobs and pay them equal wages as men.
The mention of Honeywell reminds me of the interesting names that would be given to new companies formed from one or more older companies. One such name would be given to a merger of Minneapolis-Honeywell and Fairchild: Fairwell Honeychild. This name surfaced again when Fairchild Semiconductor (for which I worked) came into existence several years ago.
Johnny
MidlandMike b60bp ... The Twin Cities were the home town of GN, NP, Soo Line, CGW (which started there), M&StL , Omaha Road and several short lines, not to mention 3M, Pillsbury, General Mills, IBM (I think)... You are probably thinking of Honeywell or CDC, both of which were computer companies. IBM has always been in the New York area.
b60bp ... The Twin Cities were the home town of GN, NP, Soo Line, CGW (which started there), M&StL , Omaha Road and several short lines, not to mention 3M, Pillsbury, General Mills, IBM (I think)...
... The Twin Cities were the home town of GN, NP, Soo Line, CGW (which started there), M&StL , Omaha Road and several short lines, not to mention 3M, Pillsbury, General Mills, IBM (I think)...
You are probably thinking of Honeywell or CDC, both of which were computer companies. IBM has always been in the New York area.
If by "started there" you mean were founded in the Twin Cities, GN, Soo Line and M-St.L would be included too.
CDC is Control Data Corporation, I worked there in the 1980's. Although I don't think their HQ was here, Sperry-Univac had a plant here also.
Interesting to recall that one year in the sixties Minnesota lead the US in production of butter, wheat...and computers.
MP173 Benny Peters:You are absolutely correct regarding the West Liberty transfer per Oct, 1964 Official Guide: Lv Mpls 330pm on Train 19 Ar. West Liberty at 1116pm Lv West Liberty at 1128 on Train 6 (coach only) Ar. Chicago 430am This is an improvement on my earlier listing of leaving Mpls at 1115am and arriving at 430am. Via Waterloo: Lv Mpls 330pm on Train 19 Ar. Waterloo 857pm Lv Waterloo 1115pm on IC Train 12 (Hawkeye) Ar. Chicago 615am The OG does not have Rock Island fares, but for IC it was $8.35 from Waterloo to Chicago. Pullman Roomette rate was $8.10. Was the $8.10 in addition to the $8.35 coach fare? Obviously the transfer at West Liberty was tight, so perhaps the Waterloo connect would have been superior, in that one could grab a bite to eat, and then sleep in a Roomette with arrival in Chicago at 615am ready to see the Windy City. Lots of mail and express moving between Chicago and Twin Cities and beyond. Ed
Benny Peters:You are absolutely correct regarding the West Liberty transfer per Oct, 1964 Official Guide:
Lv Mpls 330pm on Train 19
Ar. West Liberty at 1116pm
Lv West Liberty at 1128 on Train 6 (coach only)
Ar. Chicago 430am
This is an improvement on my earlier listing of leaving Mpls at 1115am and arriving at 430am.
Via Waterloo:
Ar. Waterloo 857pm
Lv Waterloo 1115pm on IC Train 12 (Hawkeye)
Ar. Chicago 615am
The OG does not have Rock Island fares, but for IC it was $8.35 from Waterloo to Chicago. Pullman Roomette rate was $8.10. Was the $8.10 in addition to the $8.35 coach fare?
Obviously the transfer at West Liberty was tight, so perhaps the Waterloo connect would have been superior, in that one could grab a bite to eat, and then sleep in a Roomette with arrival in Chicago at 615am ready to see the Windy City.
Lots of mail and express moving between Chicago and Twin Cities and beyond.
Ed
You could take the Zephyr-Rocket a bit further south to Columbus Jct, IA and connect with No. 40 on the Golden State Route. Without looking (I looked a while back, but didn't post) I think the layover from the ZR's arrival and No.40's was something like 2 to 2 1/2 hours. Probably not much to do at Columbus Jct in the early morning hours though.
Jeff
yes, but which?
daveklepper AR: And between Chicago and Great Lakes?
AR: And between Chicago and Great Lakes?
Had to be either the CNW or North Shore.
Mark
Ed, the Pullman fare for the roomette definitely was in addition to the rail fare--which probably was more than the $8.35 (or was this quoted as being the first class railfare?). By 1964, some roads, such as the KCS, were charging no more rail fare for first class travel than for coach travel, but most still had two tariff structures, one for coach and one for first class.
Always wondered if Amtrak or the Milwaukee Road ran a Twin Cities to Chicago train, via Milwaukee, on May 1 and/or 2, 1971. The last railroad-operated Morning Hiawatha should have run on April 30. The first Amtrak Empire Builder, which left Seattle on the 1st, did not reach & depart Minneapolis until the 3rd. The last eastbound BN-operated versions of the Builder & the North Coast Limited ran combined on the 1st & 2nd, but obviously not via Milwaukee. Anybody know? Thanks!
Boot Camp & 1yr. at Great Lakes. Used to take the train from Nora Springs, IA to Chicago. Both ways, Wk. end Liberty. Had to hitchhike one time as missed connection in Waterloo...Bummer. But made it by 0800hrs.
Lived in Mason City, IA late 50's early 60's
A.R. Sibert
Good Forum...
It was possible to take the Zephyr Rocket from Minneapolis to Waterloo Iowa and connect to the IC's Hawkeye to Chicago in the early 1960's. Unless you were a railfan why would you? Both the Blackhawk and Pioneer Limited offered excellent service overnight to Chicago. Also, the population of Minneapolis was 521,000 and St Paul was 314,000, in 1950. The area was the thirteenth largest metro area in the United States; not exactly podunk.
Benny:
The Zephyr Rocket out of Mpls was one route I did not think about. I remember seeing "ZR" equipment on track one at the MILW depot in Minneapolis. That train had two sets of equipment, one RI and the other one CBQ. It seems like both railroads used their oldest diesels on those runs.
As information, the train tracks area of the former depot are an ice skating rink.
Ed Burns
Folks & gentry,
One Rock Island routing that hasn't been mentioned, and good until the later 1960's, would have been using the Zephyr Rocket Minneapolis to West Liberty, IA, then transfer to RI headend train #2. This connection was sometimes shown in public timetables.
Another interesting tidbit is the fact that C&NW/ Omaha Road ran Twin Cities-Chicago via two different routes: via Milwaukee and via Madison. Even in the mid 1950's there were two trains on each route and after a while connecting service between the original 400 and the Dakota 400 that provided Twin Cities-Madison-Chicago streamliner service with a change at Wyeville.
I believe there's some misunderstanding about the size and importance of the Twin Cities back in the day. In the 1930's Minneapolis had well over 400,000 people and St. Paul over 300,000, not counting suburbs. That made it larger than most metro areas, including St. Louis, Cinncy, Pittsburgh,Buffalo, KC, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, etc that later mushroomed in size. The Twin Cities were the home town of GN, NP, Soo Line, CGW (which started there), M&StL , Omaha Road and several short lines, not to mention 3M, Pillsbury, General Mills, IBM (I think), Minneapolis Moline, etc, etc .It was, and largely still is, the banking, marketing and logistics center for much of the midwest and is the last big city until you reach the west coast, 1800 miles away. Large concetrations of educational and medical providers reside there as well. Lots of reasons to run trains there.
Regards,
Benny Peters
TikiOwl This topic is one which has puzzled me for some time. Why were there so many trains (and "named" trains) between the Twin Cities and Chicago in the 30's through the early 60's? At the time the population of the Twin Cities wasn't but around 500,00 until after WWII. I can understand the Chicago-Seattle trains that passed through the Twin Cities but what accounted for the business that the railroads had beyond that. I would be surprised if it was just the mill business.
This topic is one which has puzzled me for some time. Why were there so many trains (and "named" trains) between the Twin Cities and Chicago in the 30's through the early 60's? At the time the population of the Twin Cities wasn't but around 500,00 until after WWII. I can understand the Chicago-Seattle trains that passed through the Twin Cities but what accounted for the business that the railroads had beyond that. I would be surprised if it was just the mill business.
Having put my collection of Guides in order, I checked the Rock Island representation in the August, 1968, issue. There was no connection in Des Moines for service Chicago/Twin Cities. It was possible to leave Chicago at 9:10 am, arrive in Des Moines at 4:00 pm and change for Kansas City, arriving in Kansas City at 8:45 pm. Also, you could leave Minneapolis at 10:45 am. arrive in Des Moines at 4:15 pm, change, and arrive in Omaha at 8:00 pm. I was mistaken in my previous post.
The reverse connections gave these schedules; leave Kansas City at 8:45 am, arrive in Des Moines at 1:05 pm, change for Chicago, arriving at 8:40 pm, leave Omaha at 10:30 am, arrive in Des Moines at 1:10 pm, change, and arrive in Minneapolis at 7:30 pm.
The North Western was out of the Twin Cities-Omaha traffic by then, but it was still possible to use the Rock.
TikiOwl I can understand the Chicago-Seattle trains that passed through the Twin Cities but what accounted for the business that the railroads had beyond that. I would be surprised if it was just the mill business.
I have always been curious about that myself.
It seems that MLPS/StP was a major chokepoint for RR routes back then. Not only did Chi-Stl trans pass thru but also Chicago-Winnipeg, MB trains as well. Before the '70's, Winnipeg was the business capitol of western Canada, from Lake Superior out to the Continental Divide. Not counting all stops locals, there were almost as many trains from Winnipeg down to Chicago as out to Vancouver, BC. These trains were patronized by business travelers as well as upper crust Winnipegers looking for a quick visit to the big city of Chicago.
Winnipeg and Chicago had similar business activities; Grain Exchanges, Financial institutions, Retail and Manufactured Goods distribution centres, and major railway operations.
What was the going concern in the Twin Cities?
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
TikiOwl There were more Chicago-TC trains than between other prominent cities such as Houston-Dallas, LA-SF, and even Chicago-St Louis all which were close to the same distances between each.
There were more Chicago-TC trains than between other prominent cities such as Houston-Dallas, LA-SF, and even Chicago-St Louis all which were close to the same distances between each.
Chicago-Twin cities also had a lot of intermediate traffic. Houston-Dallas had 4-6 trains a day (SP and Burlington-Rock Island), LA-SF had around 10 depending on how you count (3-4 SP coast, 2-3 SP valley, 3 ATSF valley along with assorted mail trains) and Chicago-St. Louis had about a dozen ( 4 Alton, 3 IC, 3 Wabash, 2 C&EI)
My 1964 OG doesnt indicates that CRIP didnt make it easy to travel from Twin Cities to Chicago. It could be done:
Lv Mpls on Twin Star Rocket at 1115am
Ar DesMoines 432pm
Lv Des Moines Train 6 805pm
Ar Chicago 430 am
Train 6 had coaches only and obviously was a mail train.
Why so many trains between Chicago/Twin Cities? If you wanted to go to the Pacific Northwest during the 40s or 50s you pretty much had to go by train and thru the Twin Cities. So, not only did you have the regional trains, but also the long distance trains passing thru.
True, but NY and Washington were a lot larger and had more major businesses (not to mention the government offices in DC) than the Chicago-TC.There were more Chicago-TC trains than between other prominent cities such as Houston-Dallas, LA-SF, and even Chicago-St Louis all which were close to the same distances between each.
Yes, a lot of trains. But not if you compare with NY - Washington during the same period. Hourly service 6am-8pm on the PRR, plus eight B&O trains, plus the through trains to Florda and other southern points.
Yes, Ed. I do not have my schedules handy, but I recall seeing the eb train at the station in Des Moines when I rode from KC to Minneapolis in September of 1968.
ALL:
Thanks to all for the many responses.
After 1963 (the end of the CNW passenger service and to 1969 there was still two ways to ride from Minneapolis to Chicago.
Of course, the CBQ and MILW were the easiest,.
Can anyone tell me if the "Plainsman" (RI) from Minneapolis to Des Moines still made a connection with a Chicago bound Rock Island train?
jrbernier ... The Rock Island had no 'thru' service, changing trans at Davenport(Zephyr Rocket) or Des Moines(Twin Star Rocket) were required. ....
... The Rock Island had no 'thru' service, changing trans at Davenport(Zephyr Rocket) or Des Moines(Twin Star Rocket) were required. ....
The Rock Island did have Chicago-Minneapolis through service - 2 trains - until WW1.
As mentioned, the CB&Q/C&NW/MILW routes were the most famous(and the fastest - 6-7 hours). The Soo Line ran a rather leisurely route and could take up to 12 hours. The Rock Island had no 'thru' service, changing trans at Davenport(Zephyr Rocket) or Des Moines(Twin Star Rocket) were required. The CGW dropped the Twin Cities Ltd and the Legionnaire back in the depression days. Connecting service at Oelwein(Mill Cites Ltd) was possible until the Chicago train was dropped in the 50's. The M&StL had connection service, but the passenger trains were long gone by the 50's. Just a few GE or RDC runs in rural areas. If there was a joint MSL/IC passenger train between the Twin Cities and Chicago, it was long gone.
Like many others, I rode the Zephyr and Hiawatha in the late 50's and early 60's. I also 'sampled' the GN/NP trains using the special excursion fare of 32 cents for a one way ticket between Mpls & St Paul.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Keep in mind each of these routes would probably have several different trains running. In the thirties there probably were 30-40 different passenger trains you could take between the Twin Cities and Chicago. Even in the sixties there would be quite a few, some daytime trains and some overnight.
I've ridden both the old Burlington and Milwaukee mainlines along opposite banks of the Mississippi on Friends of 261 excursions and it would hard to pick which one was most scenic, they're both great.
FlyingCrow Rich...that would be CGW. No "&" sign in Chicago Great Western.
Rich...that would be CGW. No "&" sign in Chicago Great Western.
LOL
My bad, but the real culprit is Midland Mike, I just copied and pasted.
Rich
Alton Junction
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter