Hello everyone!
Please forgive this somewhat lengthy post, but I'll try to be as concise as possible.
I have a question that has been bafffling me all my life, and I haven't been able to find an answer on my own, so I thought I would post it here in the hopes that the power of all the combined expertise on these Forums would help me out.
Back in the mid-1950's, as a small child, I remember being on a passenger train with my father. I'm pretty sure that it was in the Northeast Corridor (most likely between Philadelphia-to-Boston or the other way around) but I'm not absolutely certain. At some point during the trip, my father took me by the hand and we walked to the rear of the train, going through several passenger cars along the way. I remember going through what I now know to be "vestibules" between each passenger car. It was a bit frightening to me to hear the loud rush of air and the clattering of the wheels on the rails as we made our way through each vestibule to the last passenger car.
Once there, we walked to the very last door and stood there looking out at the gleaming rails behind our train as it sped along. After a few moments, another train appeared on the track behind us and it slowly got closer and closer to the train we were on. My father seemed to know what was going to happen, but I certainly didn't. A locomotive seemingly as huge as a house slowly got closer and closer to our speeding train as we watched. I remember being VERY frightened as I watched it approach, and I remember holding on very tightly to my father's hand as it (what I now believe to been an "F-7" diesel locomotive) slowly inched closer and closer to our train. I recall it was a sort of tan color. It then coupled to the back of our train with a loud BANG . . . and I remember the engineer in the cab smiling and waving to us as we watched through the door. My father and I then walked forward through several passenger cars back to our original seats. He seemed to enjoy the experience, but all I recall was being very frightened!!
Can anyone shed any light on this maneuver? . . . . I had some thoughts about it as follows:
1) perhaps being in the NE corridor, and possibly being a diesel loco, it had to connect to our train (presumably electric) and be towed along behind us while it shut down its engine? ( I am uncertain whether it was just a loco or an entire train behind it, now that I think about it).
2) perhaps it was a "section" of the same train simply hooking up with the first half? If so, why would it do that? Why not follow along at a distance?
3) perhaps it was a "helper"? . . . Very unlikely because the terrain in the NE is flat.
4) perhaps it was an electric locomotive that just looked like an "F" unit?
I have never seen, or heard, or read, of a maneuver like that in the past 20-25 years that I have been seriously interested in trains. I would love to ask my father about it, but (*sigh*) he's been deceased since 1972. . . . and most certainly I would love to experience something like that today.
Any thoughts or ideas on this from the Forum members would be really greatly appreciated!
Thank you so much for your consideration.
All best,
Joe
Neon ManCan anyone shed any light on this maneuver?
Well . . . as a child, I can't recall how fast we were actually going . . . but I know I wasn't in the Twilight Zone. I remember our train was moving, and another one coupled up behind us. This is why I have always wondered about what exactly happened. Perhaps a conductor mentioned this maneuver to my father who jumped at the chance to see it. Otherwise how did he know to take me back to the rear of the train to watch it?
If, as you say, no railroad's rules would permit this, then let me assume that I was mistaken and that our train wasn't moving.
In that case, would two trains coupling together, and then moving off be considered a "routine" maneuver? I can't see how.
I appreciate your reply, timz, and hope to finally get an answer to this vexing question.
Thanks, benburch!
We were somewhere along between either (NY and Boston) or (Philadelphia and Boston), so it could have been as you suggested.
As a relative newbie, whenever I think of "helper" locomotives, I tend to think of them pushing trains up through hilly or mountainous terrain.
OK, so if it was indeed a helper, do you mean that after our train got up to speed, it uncoupled from our train? I always thought that uncoupling cars was done manually when a train was stopped. Or maybe it didn't actually couple, but just pushed aginst our train?
Sorry for all the questions *lol* . . . I guess I have a lot to learn!
Anyway, thanks for your idea! . . . That is probably exactly what happened.
I know that on NP ore trains, a helper would be added for empty trains headed west to the Cuyuna Range, and would be cut off at track speed while in motion after the hilly country around Duluth - Superior had been conquered. I don't know why a passenger train helper couldn't have similarly been removed while in motion.
Most, if not all the B&O cabooses I've seen were equipped with extensions on the anglecock handles and chains running down to the cutting levers to allow a man standing on the platform to safely cut off on the fly. Don't remember ever seeing them stop to cut off a rear-end helper. They would just stand on the platform, shut the anglecock, pull the pin, and give a wave to the engineer on the pusher, who would let off on the throttle. As the pusher slowed the train would continue on and the hoses would part, bringing the pusher to a stop. When I've seen this done they weren't moving more than 20 MPH or so.
Don't recall ever hearing of anybody cutting rear-end helpers off a passenger train on the fly, but maybe somebody else has. Sounds kind of dangerous...
DSO17 Don't recall ever hearing of anybody cutting rear-end helpers off a passenger train on the fly, but maybe somebody else has. Sounds kind of dangerous...
I can't think of a situation where that was done either, but I guess it's plausible. I know in the UK they used to do a maneuver where a coach would be cut off from the end of a train rolling along and it would go thru a switch on momentum onto a branchline that was generally downhill, and it would be stopped by the brakeman at the station sometimes several miles away...so I guess a lot of things are possible.
However, I'm much less convinced of a helper being added to a moving train, especially a passenger train. Cutting a helper off the rear of a moving freight is common enough I wouldn't be surprised if it was sometime / somewhere done on a passenger train, but even on freights helpers were usually / always added at a station or other stopping point before proceeding up the hill or whatever AFAIK.
IIRC when adding a pusher to a train the air had to be cut in and a brake test made. Can't do that on the move.
One thing I have seen years ago was a yard engine get behind a moving cut of cars being pulled by other yard crews to give it a shove, but only at slow speed (4 or 5 MPH) and not anywhere near the mainline. This was with iron ore-not passengers.
OK, guys . . . first of all, please accept my sincere thanks for all your replies to a question that has been bugging me for many years . . .
Secondly, after a lot of careful thought and after reading through your posts, everyone on these Forums has me convinced that a train trying to catch up with, and couple to, another train travelling at speed is just against the normal course of events.
Finally, after a couple of PM's with Henry6, I have to reconsider my original perceptions as a 3-year-old child. Henry gave me some good suggestions, and they seem to be the most logical answers to my question.
What probably happened was that they were changing locomotives on my train, most likely at Penn Station, from a GG-1 to a New Haven loco. It could have been that I walked with my father to the front of the train (and not the rear) and witnessed this. Additionally, although our train was moving, it may have been pushed towards the waiting NH locomotive by a switcher. (They could also have been re-arranging our train, perhaps adding a diner car, etc.)
All this, coupled by the views of other trains on adjacent tracks moving away, gave me the perception of a faster rate of motion on our train than what actually occurred.
So it turns out that timz was right after all: I was in the "Twilight Zone" of a 3-year-old boy . . .
Thanks again for everyone's help, and I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.
Well Joe I am glad we all could help you. I know sometimes our memories are a lil off to what happened. But it does make sense you were getting an engine change.
Yes when adding helpers you are SUPPOSED to cut it all in and do a brake test.However I have read in a lot of trains readers recall stories where they never did ( I also know a guy cough cough who has done it both ways) But with a passenger train I have never heard of it.
BTW welcome to the forums and glad your a part of our community.
Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train
Not sure about this, but I remember reading somewhere that Denmark and Israel put together DMU trains on the fly.
Rgds IGN
Denmark and Israel. The IC-3 Danish diesel mu's, which sport those huge black rubber diaphragms at the front of each three bodies four trucks articulated unit, and where the whole control console console swings to the side to open the door through the diaphragms to the next unit, and which were used in experimental Chicago - Milwaukee service before the Hiawatha program, are designed to couple and uncouple on the fly. I assume this feature is used in Denmark. It has not been used in Israel for some time, becuase most schedules in Israel are now flexible, where one day a double-deck locomotive push-pull can be used and another day Danish IC-3.
Northeast Corridor. It may just be possible that you were southbound from Boston comming into New Haven, and a train from Springfield coupled on behind you before you had come to a complete stop in the New Haven Station, and that for soome reason they wanted the combined train to run through Penn Station. FL-9's did occasionally run into Penn Station, and when new their third rail shoes would pick up power from the LIRR-PRR third rail as well as the underruning NYC third rail.
daveklepper Northeast Corridor. It may just be possible that you were southbound from Boston comming into New Haven, and a train from Springfield coupled on behind you before you had come to a complete stop in the New Haven Station, and that for soome reason they wanted the combined train to run through Penn Station. FL-9's did occasionally run into Penn Station, and when new their third rail shoes would pick up power from the LIRR-PRR third rail as well as the underruning NYC third rail.
Wow! . . . Thanks Dave! . . . your suggestion also fits! Again, it was back in ~1954, and perhaps my recollections are a little rusty as others here have gently pointed out.
OK, so then, it IS possible that what I remembered could have been correct after all . . *whew* . . . I thought I was losing my mind for a while there . . .
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