Public Service of New Jersey

[Goodtiming]

Dave, your post of April 29 @ 4:10pm.... I am 99% sure that this photo is on Palisade Avenue looking north. Note the Public Service sign (partially hidden) on the building on the left. The car on the elevated is heading to Hoboken and east. The street on the immediate left is Ravine Ave while the one just past the PS building will be ferry street.

[daveklepper]

I agree it is on Palesades Avenue.  But it is an Oakland car, and I thought all Oakland sueface tracks were east (or "south") of the Elevated.  And it appears to be turning right to go up the ramp to the Elevated, which would mean that tracks leading to Hoboken go to the right.  So the Jackson car on the Elevated seems to me to berunning from Hoboken, not to Hoboken.

Or do you have a better explanaition.  74 years 

[daveklepper]

This photo, also posted earlier, will probably be used in the forthcoming calender of the South Penn Model Traction Club.  They  and I would like to know dates for:

End of jersey City - Newark streetcar  sevice.

Start of S. Kearney and Federal Service

End of S. Kearney line and Federal line  sevices.

Thanks.

 

[Flintlock76]

daveklepper

End of jersey City - Newark streetcar  sevice. Start of S. Kearney and Federal Service End of S. Kearney line and Federal line  sevices.

I think I can help you David.  I hit the Public Service book I've got and came up with the following dates:

End of Jersey City to Newark service was May 1st 1938 when All Service Vehicles (trolley coaches) were substituted for streetcars.

The start of South Kearney service was May 25th 1942.  South Kearney service ended May 15 1948.

The start of Federal service was July 1st 1943.  Service ended August 31st 1945.

Hope that helps!  Let me know if you need other information!

[daveklepper]

Helps a lot!   Thanks!!

[Flintlock76]

You're welcome!  Glad I was of service to you!

[Overmod]

Flintlock76

Glad I was of service to you!

Public service, that is 

[Flintlock76]

Overmod

Public service, that is 

You know, about ten years ago I bought a Public Service baseball cap at a train show in Chantilly VA.  The seller gave me a funny look and said:

"You're not from around here, are you?"

I got a good laugh out of that!  I explained I was from northern New Jersey and my favorite uncle worked for PSE&G for thirty years as an electric lineman. 

[daveklepper]

1.   What is the name of the PSNJ book, its author, its publisher?

2.   The track to Newark may have remained operational foeeks, months, years, after TT sevice took over.  When were S. Kearny - Newark tracks lifted?  Jackson - Exchange Place (or paved ocver)?

3.  Additional info from Henry Raubembush:

 

 

1. Looking at the map below, I would guess that the westbound picture of 3258 was taken at the crossing of Hackensack Ave and USI 1-9, which was not then overpassed.  
    
   On  the picture of 3258 and an All-Service bus side by side?  My conclusion is that this in on US 1, between the CNJ connection and the Hackensack River Bridge, looking east.  My guess is that it is probably only a short way east of the connection from the CNJ.   You also showed a picture of the 3258 an 3259 (looks like it was a 2-car trip) in front of the Western Electric plant.  
2. An unrelated but interesting note (in 1964 for sure as I rode it then) :  That Western Electric plant had its own CNJ commuter train long after this period.  It bridged west from Kearny to the Ironbound section of Newark, and south across the diamond crossing to the N platform of Elizabethport station (to connect to N Jersey Coast trains).  In then backed across the  CNJ main line again, stopped and turned westtoward Plainfield.  It carried a commuter club car named “WEKearny”.
3.   The Camden trolleys were wide gauge, but did not use the Philadelphia wide gauge.  

 

[daveklepper]

Also from Henry:

Here’s a map of the area.  Note the RR track – CNJ then (probably CSA now) the bridges over US 1-9 jut east of Central Avenue.  The South Kearny line must have turned off of of US 1 and run southward parallel to Central Ave.  The Western Elctric plant was west of Central, at the marker of River Terminal – which is the former WE Bldg. 

 

US 1-9 BYP has had many names.  Communipaw Ave in Jersey City (East of the Hackensack), US 1 truck route, US 9 truck route, etc, and Raymond Blvd west of the Passaic in Newark..

Here’s  a street view of the approximate area today.  No visible landmark, but the general appearance is similar.

 

[Flintlock76]

OK David, taking your questions in turn.

The book I got my information from is:

"The Public Service Trolley Lines in New Jersey" by Edward Hamm Jr.  Copyright 1991, and published by Transportation Trails, 9698 W. Judson Road, Polo Illinois, 61064.  (No e-mail address)

Mine's a third printing from 1997.  The book's VERY complete, they're all in there, including the names of the predecessor trolley companies absorbed into the Public Service system.  And it does have route maps as well plus photographs, however the photos complement the text, they're not the main feature. 

When were the South Kearney to Newark lines lifted?  Well, those lines had to be re-laid in 1942 having been previously abandoned in 1938!  They were only re-laid due to transportation needs for the war emergency.  The book doesn't say when they were pulled up after final abandonment in 1948 but it's a safe bet they didn't stay there long, Public Service didn't waste time pulling up tracks when no longer needed, at least where practicable, say on private rights-of-way.  Tracks imbedded in the streets stayed there until they were (typically) paved over.  Occasionally some surface today during heavy road work! 

The book mentions the Jackson Line but Exchange Place isn't on the Jackson Line map. Jackson Line trolley service ended August 7 1949 when it became a Public Service bus line.  Exchange Place is listed on the Jersey City car line which ran from Exchange Place (JC) to Newark (Through Kearney and Harrison).  Jersey City line trolleys stopped running in 1938 when All Service Vehicles replaced the trolleys.

Hope this is of service!  (Public Service?  A nod to Overmod!  ) 

PS:  The book's available from several sources, but as is typical with out of print narrow-interest publications the prices are all over the place.  These are two of the more reasonable ones:

https://www.abebooks.com/9780933449299/Public-Service-Trolley-Lines-New-0933449291/plp

https://www.biblio.com/book/public-service-trolley-lines-new-jersey/d/615057755

 

[daveklepper]

 

thanks again.

[Flintlock76]

You're welcome!

[daveklepper]

 Some more photos, recently scanned:  Earlier was shown the north end of the Hoboken Elevated, next to the DL&W Terminal.  Here is the south end, in Jersey City, just south of the JC - Hoboken Line.  Then two pictures I think are in Union City, and the another typical Elevated picture.

 

 

 

 

[daveklepper]

One more:

[Joseph Frank]

Hello Dave

Great photos of yours in the series here on the Hoboken EL -- BUT -- see your same photo copy below and note the RED ARROW indicator at its left I placed there on that copy pointing to something  -- what happened there !!??  --  An editing slip & oversight !!??   Anyway see if you can find the image  and repair and edit out wherever that item came from !   Joe F

[daveklepper]

[Joseph Frank]

Hello Dave

You fixed it, thanks -- and MUCH BETTER now !  -- and worth saving which I did.  Great Photo of the Hoboken NJ Trolley EL at track level - Regards - Joe F

[daveklepper]

Constructuve criticism is always welcome.   Thank you.

[Joseph Frank]

Hello Dave

NOT a "criticism" at all -- but solely a friendly constructive heads up to you to an error or mistake as such - to alert you to make a quick correcting action !

Regards - Joe F

[daveklepper]

And much appreciated.  And we're working on that bug, so we can communicate  directly safely agaihn.

[daveklepper]

I was emailed privately with the question:  "What are those surface  tracks to the left of the ramp for?"

1.  I never  saw them in use.

2.  I'm certain at leat one use was to located sbow sweepers in winter to clear the on-street surface tracks south of the ramp.  Sweepers would not be needed on the elevated structure, where snow  would fall between the ties.

[daveklepper]

Having an internet connection problem that prevents my use Imgur.  While I hope it will be resolved soon, I do have about eight more images to post on this thread if a reader wishes to volunteer to post them.  I can the send them as jpg attachments,

[daveklepper]

Leaving yhe Hudson Place Terminal, ni\ote DL&W catenary at right, then the corner where theHobokem Elevated turns from Westward along Ferryv Street to south towaed Jersey City.

 

 

 

[daveklepper]

Derailer on the descent to Weehawken.  Anyone kbow the grade?

 

[daveklepper]

 

 

 

 

[daveklepper]

[daveklepper]

At the entrance to the Hudson Place Uernimal:

 

[Flintlock76]

Jeez David, I got a chill just looking at those Public Service in the winter pictures!  

I've got to make some hot chocolate, even though it's August!