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Frankford Junction catastrophe

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Posted by alphas on Monday, April 18, 2022 10:28 PM

[quote user="blue streak 1"]

 

 

The WWII Frankford crash was much worse than the latest, due to the crowded conditions on the train.  However, I believe it was due to an equipment failure (axel) rather than speed.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, April 18, 2022 10:09 PM

timz

 daveklepper

I believe the old PRR cab-signal and ATS system would have enforced that particular speed restriction

No PRR did not have that signal reduction approaching Frankford.  PRR had an overspeed there during WW-2.

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Posted by timz on Monday, April 18, 2022 7:44 PM

daveklepper
I believe the old PRR cab-signal and ATS system would have enforced that particular speed restriction

I'm guessing PRR didn't usually (ever?) do that. The system could be set to display Approach Limited so all trains had to reduce to 45 mph, but I doubt PRR set it that way. Amtrak set that, approaching Elizabeth, after someone went thru that curve too fast.

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, March 6, 2022 8:48 PM

243129
 
Electroliner 1935

Safety systems work but when systems are being transitioned (upgraded, modified, changed) for whatever reason extra caution and wariness needs to occur. I think most of us remember when the Kansas Zephyr crashed into a detouring Rock Island at Montgomery IL back in 1994, and more recently when Amtrak crashed in 2018 at Cayce N.C. Both occurred while signal systems were undergoing revisions.   

When safety systems are shut down for upgrades or revisions a properly trained and supervised engineer would have no problem adjusting to the situation.

Caycee was the fault of the CSX Conductor - not either Engineer.  Conductor released his track authority before the switch had been lined for the Main Track.  A human brain fart in the same vein as Engineer Bostain's forgetting his train's actual location. 

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by 243129 on Sunday, March 6, 2022 8:31 PM

Electroliner 1935

Safety systems work but when systems are being transitioned (upgraded, modified, changed) for whatever reason extra caution and wariness needs to occur. I think most of us remember when the Kansas Zephyr crashed into a detouring Rock Island at Montgomery IL back in 1994, and more recently when Amtrak crashed in 2018 at Cayce N.C. Both occurred while signal systems were undergoing revisions.  

 

When safety systems are shut down for upgrades or revisions a properly trained and supervised engineer would have no problem adjusting to the situation.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Sunday, March 6, 2022 7:55 PM

Safety systems work but when systems are being transitioned (upgraded, modified, changed) for whatever reason extra caution and wariness needs to occur. I think most of us remember when the Kansas Zephyr crashed into a detouring Rock Island at Montgomery IL back in 1994, and more recently when Amtrak crashed in 2018 at Cayce N.C. Both occurred while signal systems were undergoing revisions.  

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Posted by 243129 on Sunday, March 6, 2022 8:20 AM

daveklepper

again. i believe the old PRR cab-signal and ATS system woul have enforced that particular speed rdstriction, but had been removed to make installation of Amtal's own PTC less complex.

 

Yes, it would have but when the system fails and one becomes 'lost' that is where poor training and poor supervision are culpable for providing the RX for disaster.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 6, 2022 3:44 AM

again. i believe the old PRR cab-signal and ATS system woul have enforced that particular speed rdstriction, but had been removed to make installation of Amtal's own PTC less complex.

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Frankford Junction catastrophe
Posted by 243129 on Saturday, March 5, 2022 5:27 PM

Former Amtrak Engineer Brandon Bostian Found Not Guilty On All Counts In Deadly 2015 Train Derailment – CBS Philly (cbslocal.com)

I agree that Bostian did not commit a crime. If any criminal charges were to be levied it is Amtrak who should be charged. Their hiring, training and supervisory procedures caused this tragedy. Bostian is also a victim.

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