Trains.com

Amtrak talking locally about a future that will never be....

1914 views
8 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Amtrak talking locally about a future that will never be....
Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, January 29, 2022 9:16 AM

I think this is primarily because Amtrak draws it's folks from marketing and there is nothing wrong with that but since my career is in IT, marketing people have always tended to really tick me off.   As their mouths tend to write checks that the client can never cash because they do not have the funds or the Vision layed out for them is well beyond their budget or the project teams labor pool.     At any rate I have been watching and listening to Amtrak locally here as they communicate with the media about the stimulus plan just passed.     Now most of the readers here are not stupid and can do the math in their heads about the Billions Amtrak has access too and how much just one HSR project costs or how much it costs just to ramp up a new intercity train on a new route (hundreds of millions).    So far thus is what I have heard and read in the Dallas area out of Amtraks mouth in regards to the stimulus of what Amtrak wants to see in Texas.

1. If you guessed they want to reincarnate the old Texas Triangle project then you guessed right!!!!      No less than three conventional Dallas to Houston trains,   Two between Houston and San Antonio......using the Sunset Limited as the third (see as stated many times before, Amtrak loves to use existing LD trains as a foundation for new corridors......for those of you that want to see them go).   Two between Dallas and San Antonio (using the Texas Eagle as the third).  

All of these new trains are going to be conventional with a top speed of no more than 79 mph if they can achieve that.    Amtrak isn't stopping there either.   They want two more frequencies daily with the Fort Worth to OKC, Heartland Flyer, with only one frequency extended to Newton, KS to connect with the Southwest Chief.....Amtrak says they want that extension badly because to them it means at least another 100k+ annually on the Southwest Chief route.......honestly wish they would state the expected revenue along with the ridership so we can have a clue what it does to the trains operating stats but they don't.      Last they want to accept the CP's generous offer to use their newly acquired Dallas to Meridian, Miss tracks for a new passenger train to connect with the Southern Crescent and open up cities on the East Coast to Dallas and Fort Worth riders.

Now having said all that, whip out your calculators and run a tally on all that.   Then figure Amtrak is talking up what they are going to do in other markets about at the same level of wishful thinking.    Add in the gateway project costs, what the NEC will inevitably siphon off, what it will take to finish the Midwest HSR projects underway.    Don't forget the new trainsets that Amtrak placed on order and their cost.    Not to mention they also have to replace all the LD equipment soon.    You should come to the same conclusion as me that there is NO WAY they are going to come close to meeting all these dreams they are laying out to everyone and will fall far short on capital requirements.

Understood that part of this is marketing and thats fine.    What I would really like to see Amtrak do is a joint venture with Brightline as an experiment in conservation of capital and blending the best practices of each in the joint venture.    It is rather hopeful that I read Brightline West will be on the Amtrak reservation system as a travel option.    That was also the plan with the "whoops we really do not have the money" Texas Central high speed rail system between Dallas and Houston.    So someone at Amtrak or the private entities is thinking about interlining tickets at least.    Hopeful sign for the future.     I think a joint venture would be an even more hopeful sign.

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • 2,671 posts
Posted by Lithonia Operator on Sunday, January 30, 2022 8:35 AM

I would agree that Amtrak seems to be talking much bigger plans than they are getting enough funding for. Much. Just the NEC and Hudson tunnel work will take a huge chunk of the cash. Amtrak expansion and improvement will be significant, but hardly transformational. A lot of what will happen will be largely unseen by the general public.

Still in training.


  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Sunday, January 30, 2022 1:18 PM

It seems to me getting an expanded and improved passenger rail system starts with Amtrak expansion, including much larger budgets and proposals for services. That's what  marketing is about as opposed to people in accounting and other support systems. To get anything to happen, Amtrak needs to get the public's attention to sell it. Unless that happens, plans are moot.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Monday, January 31, 2022 12:39 PM

It seems to me that before Amtrak does thing one to 'expand', it needs to fix all its imperfect execution and waste, and publicize how it knows to do things better, safer, more attractively and less wastefully and annoyingly.

Otherwise they'll be trying to make up on volume the money they lose on margin... with poor customer service and deceptive marketing practices... and we know where that usually goes.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, February 3, 2022 5:56 PM

Overmod
It seems to me that before Amtrak does thing one to 'expand', it needs to fix all its imperfect execution and waste, and publicize how it knows to do things better, safer, more attractively and less wastefully and annoyingly.

Otherwise they'll be trying to make up on volume the money they lose on margin... with poor customer service and deceptive marketing practices... and we know where that usually goes.

No organization EVER has had all their issues solved before they attempted to grow, Amtrak isn't any different.

If you are always constrained to be inside the box you will NEVER escape the box.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    October 2014
  • 1,139 posts
Posted by Gramp on Thursday, February 3, 2022 10:50 PM

So now the western LD trains are cut back to 5 days a week. Not easy to run a railroad. 

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: Central Texas
  • 365 posts
Posted by MJ4562 on Friday, February 4, 2022 11:49 AM

The Texas Triangle project goes back 40 years. I remember this being pitched by the state of Texas in the mid-80s.  It was supposed to run on its own ROW like the TGV.  Maybe a joint State-Federal-Private effort might finally get this going.  

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: Central Texas
  • 365 posts
Posted by MJ4562 on Sunday, February 6, 2022 9:56 AM

Now that the cobwebs are coming off and gears beginning to turn (in my memory cells), I recall that Southwest Airlines played a significant role in shooting down the original Texas TGV project.  Among other things, they wanted to use the SAT airport as a connection terminal and SWA threatened to pull out which would put SAT in an untenable position as SWA was and is the overwhelmingly biggest player there.  They probably raised similar objections at Love Field (Dallas) and Hobby (Houston).

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy