GN Fan: You were partly right, moreso than I. I stand corrected. I checked with an old friend who was chief dispatcher and once worked third trick on the IC tower in Champaign.
"The IC goes over the streets in Champaign except for Bradley Avenue which is a grade crossing. In Paxton, the IC is in a cut. Many others are crossed at grade. In the Chicago area, the last grade crossing is at Stuenkel, the rest of the way north is elevated above the streets. Mattoon is in a cut. As to the high speeds north of Champaign, officially passenger trains were limited to 79 MPH. Between Champaign and Branch Jct. (just north of Centralia), Passenger trains were allowed 100 MPH. Yes, some engineers did exceed the speed limit. There were two main tracks between Gilman and Otto where a third main track opened up to Indian Oaks north of Kankakee. In earlier times, there were three main tracks between Indian Oaks and Stuenkel. At Stuenkel, on north were four main tracks (not counting the electric suburban service)."
GN_Fan I was riding AMTK's CZ across Nebraska once on ribbon smooth track, untill we got to a switch. Every switch was laterally out of line a bit. I just happenen to be sitting in the lower lounge when a BNSF track maintenance supervisor sat down across from me. He was surprised I noticed it....but there are windows, and I look out and notice the lateral sway.
I was riding AMTK's CZ across Nebraska once on ribbon smooth track, untill we got to a switch. Every switch was laterally out of line a bit. I just happenen to be sitting in the lower lounge when a BNSF track maintenance supervisor sat down across from me. He was surprised I noticed it....but there are windows, and I look out and notice the lateral sway.
Umm, sorry, but I do not have a poor memory as I have photos also. IIRC, IC triple track ended at Gilman, and I can CLEARLY remember going NB on both the CNO and the Seminole hitting the crossover from the NB track to the center track so fast that the front of the car actually rose up and ripped off to the left when we crossed over. As for 112 MPH, I believe sitting in the rear seat of the CNO obs doing a mile every 32 seconds is pretty close to the mark. Actually, it's 112.5 MPH. Sorry, but I just had a Seth Thomas wrist watch and not a stopwatch, but 20+ miles like that is pretty unmistakabe. If my memory serves me, we had to slow for a 90 MPH curve north of Kankakee. As for the bridges being low, there was a noticable "dip" as we crossed the bridges as the track on either end was a bit higher than the bridge itself. I notice these things. I was riding AMTK's CZ across Nebraska once on ribbon smooth track, untill we got to a switch. Every switch was laterally out of line a bit. I just happenen to be sitting in the lower lounge when a BNSF track maintenance supervisor sat down across from me. He was surprised I noticed it....but there are windows, and I look out and notice the lateral sway. He was saying that the track was surfaced that summer, but the machinery could not surface switches, then winter shut it all down. He said next summer would be better.
We chose the Cardinal for the scenery. It did not disappoint. One bumpy section didn't ruin our trip. It just surprised me, that's all. As for the time it took: that wasn't the point. I was sad when it was over.
We thoroughly enjoyed the Cardinal despite some bumpy track and a mostly rude crew. I looked out the window, listened to the scanner, and was happy as a clam.
Would I like to try the Capitol? By all means!
Still in training.
Cardinal has always been a milk run. Understood the scenery might be a tad better but to me it is not worth the price paid in time it sucks up Chicago to D.C. I will always ride the Capitol Limited over the Cardinal.
BALT: Let him answer if he can. That line north of Champaign, went under roads, especially in towns like Paxton, Gilman, Onarga. And not triple tracked but double with passing tracks until it was sadly single-tracked. And not 112 mph. He has a poor memory.
Overmod BaltACD I think he is referring to the track line on bridges was slightly lower than it was on the approaches to the bridges There are two possibilities, both related to how ongoing track maintenance works. As the track is repeatedly lined and surfaced and additional ballast is added, the actual height of the track tends to increase along with the ballast prism. Certain fixed track areas, like 'buried' paved crossings or non-ballasted-deck bridges, don't share in this and there is essentially a vertical S-curve at each end of what is now a 'lower' section. Meanwhile if you have overhead bridges with initially tight clearance, you cannot raise the track under the bridge to the same extent as to either side. Again there would be a transition, and at high speed I'd exoect to feel it.
BaltACD I think he is referring to the track line on bridges was slightly lower than it was on the approaches to the bridges
There are two possibilities, both related to how ongoing track maintenance works.
As the track is repeatedly lined and surfaced and additional ballast is added, the actual height of the track tends to increase along with the ballast prism. Certain fixed track areas, like 'buried' paved crossings or non-ballasted-deck bridges, don't share in this and there is essentially a vertical S-curve at each end of what is now a 'lower' section.
Meanwhile if you have overhead bridges with initially tight clearance, you cannot raise the track under the bridge to the same extent as to either side. Again there would be a transition, and at high speed I'd exoect to feel it.
In the late 70's Chessie System had a Tie and Surfacing Gang working on what is now CSX's Philadelphia Sub. One day the Philadelphia Trailer Jet arrived Philadelphia with a number of trailers with their roof pealed back - the T&S gang had raised the track structure under a bridge just a little too high.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Has the state of VA announced when it is going to buy the BBr RR ?
BaltACDI think he is referring to the track line on bridges was slightly lower than it was on the approaches to the bridges
charlie hebdo GN_Fan IC's track between CHI and Champagne was pretty good at 112 MPH (the bridges tended to be a bit low tho)....and yah, it was a mile in 32 seconds for 25 miles or so, had to slow to 90 for a curve just north of Kankakee. Just ripping along at 112 on the City of New Orleans,24 cars strong on triple track in 1963......it doesn't get any better than that. I rode the IC to and from Champaign. Yes fast track, speed limit in places 100. When you mention those low overpasses (in towns like Paxton) , how would they be low for you inside a car? Riding on a roof? Freights were not going anywhere near 100 mph. Just asking for clarification. It sure was smooth and double-tracked back then!
GN_Fan IC's track between CHI and Champagne was pretty good at 112 MPH (the bridges tended to be a bit low tho)....and yah, it was a mile in 32 seconds for 25 miles or so, had to slow to 90 for a curve just north of Kankakee. Just ripping along at 112 on the City of New Orleans,24 cars strong on triple track in 1963......it doesn't get any better than that.
I rode the IC to and from Champaign. Yes fast track, speed limit in places 100. When you mention those low overpasses (in towns like Paxton) , how would they be low for you inside a car? Riding on a roof? Freights were not going anywhere near 100 mph. Just asking for clarification. It sure was smooth and double-tracked back then!
I think he is referring to the track line on bridges was slightly lower than it was on the approaches to the bridges. Similar to the fact that when driving the Interstates, the bridges creates some kind of a bump where they connect to the roadway. Either being high or low in comparison to the adjoining roadway.
Got to ride the all Pullman Panama Limted Chicago to New Orleans in 1959 or 1960 - recall the 100 MPH running through 'non-Chicago' Illinois.
When I was working the Operator's position at Salem, IL in 1966 & 67, I would sometimes go over to Odin, IL to watch the Panama pass - it sure went from horizon to horizon quickly.
GN_FanIC's track between CHI and Champagne was pretty good at 112 MPH (the bridges tended to be a bit low tho)....and yah, it was a mile in 32 seconds for 25 miles or so, had to slow to 90 for a curve just north of Kankakee. Just ripping along at 112 on the City of New Orleans,24 cars strong on triple track in 1963......it doesn't get any better than that.
MidlandMike This is why Amtrak objects when a Class I tries to spin-off, to a short line, a segment the passenger carrier operates on.
This is why Amtrak objects when a Class I tries to spin-off, to a short line, a segment the passenger carrier operates on.
I find this laughable. I rode Acela from Boston to NYP and found the track to be as rough as any as I've been on --- NS, CSX, UP, BNSF, but I haven't been on Buckingham Branch. I've ridden NYP-SEA, BOS-SEA, BOS-SFO, and SEA-LAX, LAX-CHI and none were very smooth, most were rough as a cob to almost unable to walk without support. I was even approached by a sleeping car attendant that asked me if I was bleeding. He found a big blood streak on one of the car walls right after I passed him, and yah, my skin was peeled back when i bounced off the wall. He patched me up with his First Aid Kit post haste. Great. No more blood on the walls. Rough track? Yah, it's ALL rough track. It reminds of my freight riding days....and yah, I rode freights all over the PNW. I don't remember rough track like that that when I road NP 25 and 26 some 5 times between Chicago and Missoula, MT back in the 60's. GN's EB was even smoother than that. IC's track between CHI and Champagne was pretty good at 112 MPH (the bridges tended to be a bit low tho)....and yah, it was a mile in 32 seconds for 25 miles or so, had to slow to 90 for a curve just north of Kankakee. Just ripping along at 112 on the City of New Orleans,24 cars strong on triple track in 1963......it doesn't get any better than that. Now it's all single track and 79 MPH with event recorders...and hardly any passenger trains on rough track. Has it gone down hill that much? It seems so.
We are on the Cardinal, on the Buckingham Branch RR part, from Clifton Forge to Charlottesville.
The track is terrible! Really bad. Getting tossed all around.
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