Trains.com

new Crescent schedule

6618 views
33 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2012
  • 85 posts
new Crescent schedule
Posted by GeoffS on Monday, June 7, 2021 3:00 PM

Just got a suprise! I am riding the Crescent northbound in two weeks New Orleans to Philadelphia. Just thought I would check how late it is to Phila. today to see how it might be in two weeks.  What a shock to see it was in DC when it should have been in Phila., and not only that it was ahead of schedule!  Guess what, the schedule changed yesterday. According to Amtrak "In cooperation with Norfolk Southern, the primary host railroad carrier for the Crescent, a new schedule has been developed to improve customer satisfaction and on-time performance." WOW!  Northbound the Crescent leaves NO at 9:15 instead of 7 AM., 2 hours and 15 minutes later. But, it arrives in Phila. at 4:37PM, 4 plus hours later than before. Sounds like a lot of padding to me.  Oh well, I can hardly wait to arrive into Phila. during rush hour. We'll have to see how this new schedule pans out in the long run. (Southbound it appears there is only about a half hour added).

GS

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, June 7, 2021 3:34 PM

GeoffS
Just got a suprise! I am riding the Crescent northbound in two weeks New Orleans to Philadelphia. Just thought I would check how late it is to Phila. today to see how it might be in two weeks.  What a shock to see it was in DC when it should have been in Phila., and not only that it was ahead of schedule!  Guess what, the schedule changed yesterday. According to Amtrak "In cooperation with Norfolk Southern, the primary host railroad carrier for the Crescent, a new schedule has been developed to improve customer satisfaction and on-time performance." WOW!  Northbound the Crescent leaves NO at 9:15 instead of 7 AM., 2 hours and 15 minutes later. But, it arrives in Phila. at 4:37PM, 4 plus hours later than before. Sounds like a lot of padding to me.  Oh well, I can hardly wait to arrive into Phila. during rush hour. We'll have to see how this new schedule pans out in the long run. (Southbound it appears there is only about a half hour added).

GS

Even in the 'Glory Days' of private passenger service - there were no 'run time' schedules.  When schedules are made to be published to the public there have to be some allowances for unforseen, but relatively normal happenings.

When operating on single track railroads - allowances have to be built in for expected train meets - the busier the railroad the more meets have to be accounted for.

I believe a significant part of NS's route from New Orleans to Arlington, VA is single track.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • 85 posts
Posted by GeoffS on Wednesday, June 9, 2021 10:18 AM

See Bob Johnston's TRAINS analysis "Lengthened Crescent schedule diminishes it's usefulness." In my first post I was so used to getting into NO around 8:30 that I forgot to notice 9:05 pm is a hour and a half later not a half an hour from the old schedule.

GS

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, June 9, 2021 5:47 PM

Single track?  No way to run a railroad!!

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, June 9, 2021 7:32 PM

charlie hebdo
Single track?  No way to run a railroad!!

If you build the 2nd track they will come!

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2018
  • 865 posts
Posted by JPS1 on Wednesday, June 9, 2021 8:47 PM

charlie hebdo

Single track?  No way to run a railroad!! 

Increasing the capacity of a rail line to accommodate a once-a-day train that lost $45.5 million or an average of $270.67 per passenger before depreciation, interest, and miscellaneous charges in FY20 would not be a good business decision. 
  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, June 10, 2021 1:29 AM

Even so the frieght railroads have declined significantly since the days of the private passenger train and can't even run their own freight trains on time to schedule, even if the freight train is a "hotshot" they bust the schedules frequently because of lack of investment in their own track infrastructure and the general attitude that profits matter over speed and reliablity.

I remember a while back when Santa Fe was attempting to run the "Super Chief" from Chicago to LA as a hotshot intermodal train.    My goodness, all Santa Fe track for 98% of the route and they could not reliably adhere to the "hot shot" schedule over any length of time.    Their attempts to charge a premium for traffic carried by the train ultimately failed because it would not stick to the timetable there was always somewhere on the line things would get gummed up and the train would lose it's schedule.

Look at the Milwaukee's  Thunderhawk and XL Special, geesh, we are talking empty track and empty schedule of competing trains from the Twin Cities to Seattle for the most part and still it ran late in the 1960's and 1970's.

The crisp frieght railroad management of the 1950's and before in the time keeping department is long gone and I don't think we will ever see it again as long as railroad management doesn't see any money to be made in speed or reliability of schedule.    I don't think you will even see it under PSR.   Railroad management just does not care anymore and the customers can go pound dirt if they don't like how things have slipped.

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, June 10, 2021 1:36 AM

charlie hebdo
Single track?  No way to run a railroad!! Add Q

Agree, and I hold up CP's outstanding record of hauling Amtrak trains on it's Chicago to Twin Cities mainline to compare with any other Class 1 in the country.    Is CP mismanaged?  Or is it just the former Milwaukee Road employees that care?   Hate to paraphrase Al Pacino in the movie "The Irishman", it says something to shippers when your late with a passenger train and they are on the passenger train.

I still remember my long ago experience on the Rocky Mountaineer (RM) on the great circle route over the Canadian Rockies.    CN vs CP.   Guess which host railroad blew it substantially by at least half a day and blamed track capacity and we all know the RM average speed and schedule.....should not have been that big of problem to handle the RM and CP did not have even a small fraction of the issues CN did with time keeping.   Of course the RM ride was just a single data point in time so who knows what the annual record is.   Then there is the record of the VIA Rail Canadian......guess whose track?

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, June 17, 2021 8:37 PM

The present Crescent schedule seems to be working.  I hope it continues.  The later departure from New Orleans IMO needs changing.  Either return to the old 0700 time or even better 0600. 0600 allows an ATL departure of 2015, CLT - 0215 make Carolinian conection almost always, Charlottesville - 0730, arrive WASH - 1030  can do business for day, NYP 1500 before rush. 

Leave the southbound schedule the same.  That will require Amtrak to adjust the crewing of the  train.  The Meridian - NOL turns to the next morning's departure of 19.  So even now if 19 is very late then the departure of 20 will be delayed even with the present schedule.  That is #20's departure is still dependent on 19 not being too late. 1381 miles to cause a nex day's departure of #20.

Since Amtrak is already planning on making ATL a mini hub it may be time to use NOL and ATL as crew locations for Crescent to enable this  more reasonable schedule. 

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, June 18, 2021 11:26 AM

blue streak 1
Since Amtrak is already planning on making ATL a mini hub

More opinion:   Bad idea unless they plan to spend $100 million fixing the station and the track arrangements.    Or just move the Atlanta station to a better area that serves the public better.    The current Atlanta station is crap and can barely handle one train a day efficiently from what I read.    The station itself is not worthy a city the size of Atlanta.

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 5,557 posts
Posted by York1 on Friday, June 18, 2021 11:37 AM

CMStPnP
More opinion:   Bad idea unless they plan to spend $100 million fixing the station and the track arrangements.    Or just move the Atlanta station to a better area that serves the public better.    The current Atlanta station is crap and can barely handle one train a day efficiently from what I read.    The station itself is not worthy a city the size of Atlanta.

 

I agree completely.  I used the Atlanta station years ago, and even then it was more like an old stop on a transit line than a major city station.  Of course, with the Amtrak service, that's probably all it needed to be.  But if Amtrak wants to provide more and better service, it may need to get Atlanta to chip in to expand the station or build a better one in a better place.

York1 John       

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 5,557 posts
Posted by York1 on Friday, June 18, 2021 11:39 AM

CMStPnP
More opinion:   Bad idea unless they plan to spend $100 million fixing the station and the track arrangements.    Or just move the Atlanta station to a better area that serves the public better.    The current Atlanta station is crap and can barely handle one train a day efficiently from what I read.    The station itself is not worthy a city the size of Atlanta.

 

I agree completely.  I used the Atlanta station years ago, and even then it was more like an old stop on a transit line (which it was) than a major city station.  Of course, with the Amtrak service, that's probably all it needed to be.  But if Amtrak wants to provide more and better service, it may need to get Atlanta to chip in to expand the station or build a better one in a better place.

York1 John       

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Friday, June 18, 2021 2:58 PM

York1

 

 
CMStPnP
More opinion:   Bad idea unless they plan to spend $100 million fixing the station and the track arrangements.    Or just move the Atlanta station to a better area that serves the public better.    The current Atlanta station is crap and can barely handle one train a day efficiently from what I read.    The station itself is not worthy a city the size of Atlanta.

 

 

I agree completely.  I used the Atlanta station years ago, and even then it was more like an old stop on a transit line (which it was) than a major city station.  Of course, with the Amtrak service, that's probably all it needed to be.  But if Amtrak wants to provide more and better service, it may need to get Atlanta to chip in to expand the station or build a better one in a better place.

 

Maybe start where the light rail (MARTA) and Amtrak can share a station.

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, June 18, 2021 4:32 PM

York1

 

 
CMStPnP
More opinion:   Bad idea unless they plan to spend $100 million fixing the station and the track arrangements.    Or just move the Atlanta station to a better area that serves the public better.    The current Atlanta station is crap and can barely handle one train a day efficiently from what I read.    The station itself is not worthy a city the size of Atlanta.

 

 

I agree completely.  I used the Atlanta station years ago, and even then it was more like an old stop on a transit line than a major city station.  Of course, with the Amtrak service, that's probably all it needed to be.  But if Amtrak wants to provide more and better service, it may need to get Atlanta to chip in to expand the station or build a better one in a better place.

 

It was a Southern Railway suburban stop.  Most locals called it Brookwood Station,  though officially it is Peach tree.  To call it crap is ignorant.  It's too small and needing a better location, but it is a very attractive Italian Renaissance architectural style with palladian windows! 

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 5,557 posts
Posted by York1 on Friday, June 18, 2021 4:52 PM

charlie hebdo
It was a Southern Railway suburban stop.  Most locals called it Brookwood Station,  though officially it is Peach tree.  To call it crap is ignorant.  It's too small and needing a better location, but it is a very attractive Italian Renaissance architectural style with palladian windows! 

 

If you've ever been there, ignorant or not, you won't notice the windows or the architectural style.

You will notice the stairs, the tiny parking lot, the stairs, the tiny building, the couple of vending machines, the stairs, the poor seating, the stairs, etc.

It does have neat-looking windows, though.

York1 John       

  • Member since
    December 2018
  • 865 posts
Posted by JPS1 on Friday, June 18, 2021 6:40 PM

charlie hebdo
 It was a Southern Railway suburban stop.  Most locals called it Brookwood Station,  though officially it is Peach tree.  To call it crap is ignorant.  It's too small and needing a better location, but it is a very attractive Italian Renaissance architectural style with palladian windows! 

Spot on!  I have been there several times and found the architectural style to be very appealing.  I confess to not knowning much about architecture, but appealing is appealing even for the uninformed.  

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, June 19, 2021 10:24 AM

York1
If you've ever been there, ignorant or not, you won't notice the windows or the architectural style.

He has not been there I'll bet....lol.  Big Smile

I look at the whole package when it comes to terminals not just the gift wrap.   I think Joilet Union Station isn't exactly a model station either but they sure spent a lot of money preserving it for another use.......whatever that use is.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Saturday, June 19, 2021 10:37 AM

CMStPnP
He has not been there I'll bet....lol.

He wouldn't need to be; you can see all you need to know about it here:

https://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/atlanta/pea.htm

I note, pointedly, that they don't go into detail about the stairs.

As a kind of neoclassical Amshack, Brookwood ought to be an inspiration for architects looking to build more postage-stamp excuses shoehorned into unlikely plots to 'serve' major metropolitan areas unwilling or unable to afford more convenient or commodious facilities.

 I had never realized the pun on 'tolist' before and I thank you (I think) for bringing it to my attention. Wink

 

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, June 19, 2021 10:53 AM

Overmod
He wouldn't need to be; you can see all you need to know about it here:

Slide it down the tracks a little ways to behind Atlantic Station, commercial and retail development.   Use the vacant land there or buy out a small company for tear down.    Room for 4 or more tracks, a decent sized building, parking structure nearby and room to build another.    So back to the original point.    They could do better on location, track space, etc before they attempt to make that tiny station a hub and create more issues.

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 5,557 posts
Posted by York1 on Saturday, June 19, 2021 3:05 PM

York1 John       

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, June 19, 2021 3:08 PM

York1

 

 
charlie hebdo
It was a Southern Railway suburban stop.  Most locals called it Brookwood Station,  though officially it is Peach tree.  To call it crap is ignorant.  It's too small and needing a better location, but it is a very attractive Italian Renaissance architectural style with palladian windows! 

 

 

If you've ever been there, ignorant or not, you won't notice the windows or the architectural style.

You will notice the stairs, the tiny parking lot, the stairs, the tiny building, the couple of vending machines, the stairs, the poor seating, the stairs, etc.

It does have neat-looking windows, though.

 

I lived in Atlanta seven years.  It's too small and not suited to be a major station in the future,  if rail service expands.  But it was fine for one train each way daily or three times per week.  

And yes, the windows are noteworthy. 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Saturday, June 19, 2021 7:12 PM

Every time I see Brookwood now it reminds me of the part of the Virginia Lee Burton story about the Little House where the city grows up all around it.  It is hard to appreciate the architectural features when there's almost no safe way to see them.

For major traffic Amtrak would have to establish some kind of satellite parking with van shuttle... and there would still be those stairs.  What do they use for ADA compliance now?

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, June 19, 2021 10:19 PM

Overmod

For major traffic Amtrak would have to establish some kind of satellite parking with van shuttle... and there would still be those stairs.  What do they use for ADA compliance now?

Normally it is the out of service freight elevator.  Amtrak still expecting it to be back in service July 1  but ????   No one has reported as to how ADA is being handled and I have not had time to check it out. ( 3  hours at least RT )  

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, June 20, 2021 5:37 AM

York, so move a little bit west down the tracks from your current view, next to and behind the Atlantic Station commercial  development.   It looks like there is both the vacant land and room for more tracks for a better facility.

I cannot believe Atlanta tore down two large rail passenger stations downtown, leaving nothing today.    Just unbelieveable.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, June 20, 2021 9:44 AM

CMStPnP
It looks like there is both the vacant land and room for more tracks for a better facility.

I know at least two house-moving firms that could move the Brookwood building out of its disastrous site and locate it at Atlantic Station as the 'nucleus' of a new facility there...

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, June 20, 2021 11:22 AM

Overmod
I know at least two house-moving firms that could move the Brookwood building out of its disastrous site and locate it at Atlantic Station as the 'nucleus' of a new facility there...

I think that would be a good idea and probably cheaper than a new build.   Though I think at the new location, stairs would no longer be necessary as it looks like the Atlantic Station development is at track level.    Though if necessary they could perhaps relo it on a berm to access the tracks from the top or relo at track level and tunnel under the tracks to access from below.

The additional advantage of course is you could both surround the station with retail and possibly bring retail into the station and make it self-sufficient vs a money pit.

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 11,971 posts
Posted by oltmannd on Monday, June 21, 2021 2:55 PM

Trains should stop where the people are. 

The people are largely to the north of the Brookwood Station, along I-85, I-75 and GA 400.  If you want to serve this population, you need a suburban stop in Gwinnett County (population 970,000.  Poplulation when the Southern was running this train. 165,000).   Somewhere between Norcross and Buford would work.  Perhaps right at the Southeastern Railroad Musuem in Duluth.

Even a stop at Doraville to allow easy transfer to MARTA would be a help.

Completly agree with others about Brookwood stop edging south to Atlantic Station.  Much better integration with the booming Midtown part of the city.

 

 

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, June 23, 2021 7:17 PM

The new schedule from Atlanta is really going to be a bummer for Atlanta north ppassengers.

 

 
 
Amtrak Alerts
 
@AmtrakAlerts
·
1h
 
SERVICE ADVISORY: Due to a freight train derailment, Crescent Train 19 which departed New York (NYP) on 6/23 will have a bus bridge between Charlotte (CLT) and Atlanta (ATL).
 
 
 
3
 
7
 
 
 
 
Amtrak Alerts
 
@AmtrakAlerts
·
1h
 
SERVICE ADVISORY: Due to a freight train derailment, Crescent Train 20 which departed New Orleans (NOL) on 6/23 will have a bus bridge between Atlanta (ATL) and Charlotte (CLT).
 
Now if Amtrak had more service for Atlanta it could use CSX Athens - Grenwood - Chestr - NS -CLT
 
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, June 23, 2021 7:24 PM
  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 5,557 posts
Posted by York1 on Wednesday, June 23, 2021 8:15 PM

BlueStreak,

For some reason my computer isn't displaying your post about the Atlanta Amtrak schedule.  All I get is jumbled mess.

Is it possible you could direct me to where that info is?

York1 John       

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy