It appears Amtrak has omitted the Transition Sleeper from most, if not all LD trains during this virus cut-back period. Probably a smart move due to reduced staff and reduced consists. However, I had to chuckle when I realized they have positioned the highest-paying customers right behind the locomotives. That roar and horn blowing should keep them up all night! Looking at the current positioning of the consists with the baggage car at the rear behind the coaches, how difficult would it be to flip it? At least there would be a baggage car between the coaches and the locomotives and the Sleeper passengers might actually be able to sleep being at the rear of the train. Nah. It makes too much sense to accommodate the customer paying a premium. How foolish of me.
RailSpike It appears Amtrak has omitted the Transition Sleeper from most, if not all LD trains during this virus cut-back period.
I saw No. 21, the Texas Eagle, yesterday in central Texas. It had the transition sleeper, regular sleeper, dining car, lounge car, and two coaches.
Based on what I could see of the people in the dining and lounge cars, it did not have many passengers.
I am surprise that Amtrak has not reduce the long-distance trains to three times a week in each direction.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
RailSpikehow difficult would it be to flip it?
Isn't slack action cumulative?
RailSpikeIt appears Amtrak has omitted the Transition Sleeper from most, if not all LD trains during this virus cut-back period. Probably a smart move due to reduced staff and reduced consists. However, I had to chuckle when I realized they have positioned the highest-paying customers right behind the locomotives. That roar and horn blowing should keep them up all night! Looking at the current positioning of the consists with the baggage car at the rear behind the coaches, how difficult would it be to flip it? At least there would be a baggage car between the coaches and the locomotives and the Sleeper passengers might actually be able to sleep being at the rear of the train. Nah. It makes too much sense to accommodate the customer paying a premium. How foolish of me.
Amtrak is just creating the rail fan sleeper!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
It used to be that when I rode between Sal Lake City and Chicago, the full-length sleepers were at the rear, and the transition sleeper (which has roomettes for passengers) was, of course, at the front so the baggage car could be accessed from the passenger cars. I did have a roomette in the transition sleeper once.The last two years, all of the sleepers were together; I never had trouble going to sleep.
Johnny
I did a follow up check this evening - April 15th - on Number 21, the southbound Texas Eagle at Temple, TX.
The transition sleep was gone. The train had one regular sleeper, a dining car, a lounge car, two coaches, and a baggage car at the rear. I saw one person in the the lounge car and no one in the second coach.
I am a bit of a traditionalist. I don't like seeing baggage cars at the back of a train. No class!
RailSpike It appears Amtrak has omitted the Transition Sleeper from most, if not all LD trains during this virus cut-back period. Probably a smart move due to reduced staff and reduced consists. However, I had to chuckle when I realized they have positioned the highest-paying customers right behind the locomotives. That roar and horn blowing should keep them up all night! Looking at the current positioning of the consists with the baggage car at the rear behind the coaches, how difficult would it be to flip it? At least there would be a baggage car between the coaches and the locomotives and the Sleeper passengers might actually be able to sleep being at the rear of the train. Nah. It makes too much sense to accommodate the customer paying a premium. How foolish of me.
The sleeping cars being behind the motive power on Amtrak LD trains is nothing new, it's actually been that way for quite some time and there's a couple of reasons. One is the slack action and another is the walking distance for first class passengers, making coach passengers walk further to their cars than sleeping. As for the roar and horn blowing, you don't hear them and I know, I've been on the sleeping car behind the engine before, though usually there's a baggage car and transition sleeper in front, depending on the train.
Mail, express, and baggage cars at the end of a train were extremely rare until the steam locomotives were gone. As the years passed, they began to appear sometimes at the rear to avoid switching moves which were only necessary to put add-ons at the head--the diesels weren't changed at division points like steam engines usually were.
alphasMail, express, and baggage cars at the end of a train were extremely rare until the steam locomotives were gone. As the years passed, they began to appear sometimes at the rear to avoid switching moves which were only necessary to put add-ons at the head--the diesels weren't changed at division points like steam engines usually were.
In the pre-Amtrak world of passenger trains in many of the larger terminal locations it was customary for the trains to back into the stations. In backing in, the sleeping cars on the rear were the nearest to the station.
GERALD L MCFARLANE JRAs for the roar and horn blowing, you don't hear them and I know, I've been on the sleeping car behind the engine
You're certainly entitled to your own opinion based on your experience.
But in my experience, the night the wife and I spent in a similarly situated bedroom aboard a constantly horn-honking Three Rivers from Akron to Chicago was the worst night. Ever. And it came with a very expensive "first class" (lol) ticket!
Nope. Sleepers go on the rear of the train.
Quoting Mr. McFarlane "One is the slack action and another is the walking distance for first class passengers, making coach passengers walk further to their cars than sleeping."
This does not always hold--when #6 comes into Salt Lake City, the rear of the train is closer to the access to the tracks from the station than the front is. Also, when a train backs into a station such as Denver or New Orleans, the coaches are closer (the last two times I went east, #6 backed into Chicago).
BaltACD In the pre-Amtrak world of passenger trains in many of the larger terminal locations it was customary for the trains to back into the stations. In backing in, the sleeping cars on the rear were the nearest to the station.
I remember backing into St. Louis on the Spirit of St. Louis in 1960 or thereabouts. What other major terminals required backing prior to Amtrak?
On the three different occasions that I rode Amtrak's CZ, if I remember correctly, it backed into Denver. I don't know if trains had to back into Denver before the arrival of Amtrak.
I don't recall any back-ins of arrivals at any of the stations in Chicago. Except for the wye south of Chicago Union Station, the track arrangements didn't allow for it.
PJS1 BaltACD In the pre-Amtrak world of passenger trains in many of the larger terminal locations it was customary for the trains to back into the stations. In backing in, the sleeping cars on the rear were the nearest to the station. I remember backing into St. Louis on the Spirit of St. Louis in 1960 or thereabouts. What other major terminals required backing prior to Amtrak? On the three different occasions that I rode Amtrak's CZ, if I remember correctly, it backed into Denver. I don't know if trains had to back into Denver before the arrival of Amtrak.
I do not know how the California Zephyr was handled in Denver pre-Amtrak; perhaps in the same way that it is now handled? Though when there were through cars to/from Colorado Springs, it headed in westbound?
As to the operation in Chicago, I have no idea as to why the CZ should be backed in.
When I have ridden Chicago-New Orleans the train has backed out and backed in because of the current arrangement to reach the station from the former IC.
Deggesty PJS1 BaltACD In the pre-Amtrak world of passenger trains in many of the larger terminal locations it was customary for the trains to back into the stations. In backing in, the sleeping cars on the rear were the nearest to the station. I remember backing into St. Louis on the Spirit of St. Louis in 1960 or thereabouts. What other major terminals required backing prior to Amtrak? On the three different occasions that I rode Amtrak's CZ, if I remember correctly, it backed into Denver. I don't know if trains had to back into Denver before the arrival of Amtrak. The union terminal in New Orleans has always required turning on the wye before backing in. I know of only two instances in which a train headed in: in the mid-sixties, when the IC was struck, non-union employees took the Panama from McComb (the union employees had finished their run), and headed in, to make sure they did not overshoot the bumper. In 1989, the train from Chicago was running late and headed in, I do not know why, but I was glad because it gave my wife and me a little more time to call for our rental car. I do not know how the California Zephyr was handled in Denver pre-Amtrak; perhaps in the same way that it is now handled? Though when there were through cars to/from Colorado Springs, it headed in westbound? As to the operation in Chicago, I have no idea as to why the CZ should be backed in. When I have ridden Chicago-New Orleans the train has backed out and backed in because of the current arrangement to reach the station from the former IC.
The union terminal in New Orleans has always required turning on the wye before backing in. I know of only two instances in which a train headed in: in the mid-sixties, when the IC was struck, non-union employees took the Panama from McComb (the union employees had finished their run), and headed in, to make sure they did not overshoot the bumper. In 1989, the train from Chicago was running late and headed in, I do not know why, but I was glad because it gave my wife and me a little more time to call for our rental car.
The B&O backed into Washington Union Station, the PRR with their electric GG-1's pulled their trains in. As I recall the ACL and SAL backed into the stations at Savannah and Jacksonville. When the all B&O route through Pittsburgh was utilized for through trains, they backed into Grant Street Station from Glenwood Jct. When using the P&LE route all moves were pull through as the P&LE station was not stub ended.
Yes, the downtown stations in Savannah were stub stations. When the "West Savannah" station of the SAL became THE station for trains to/from Florida, the trains ran through.
I had forgotten about Jacksonville. There, the ACL-FEC trains could run through, but others backed in. (I really do not remember if the train backed in when I rode what was left of the Dixie Flyer from Atlanta in 1966; we did come in on one of the stubs).
Even when backing in, the long trains used one of the through tracks at the station; that made splitting/splicing the West Coast Champion easier.
Deggesty Quoting Mr. McFarlane "One is the slack action and another is the walking distance for first class passengers, making coach passengers walk further to their cars than sleeping." This does not always hold--when #6 comes into Salt Lake City, the rear of the train is closer to the access to the tracks from the station than the front is. Also, when a train backs into a station such as Denver or New Orleans, the coaches are closer (the last two times I went east, #6 backed into Chicago).
When I traveled east two years ago, we headed into Chicago; my trip a year and a half ago was the first one on which we backed in. Except when coming fromNew Orleans, all the other trains I have ridden into Chicago headed in.
DeggestyWhen I traveled east two years ago, we headed into Chicago; my trip a year and a half ago was the first one on which we backed in. Except when coming fromNew Orleans, all the other trains I have ridden into Chicago headed in.
I recall reading somewhere that ORIGINALLY in Chicago, where one of the eastern trunks shared depot space with one of the western roads....the arrangement was causing one of the roads to have to back in.....no I can't cite the source, I looked briefly and can't find it.
But what I recall was the explanation that this stated inconveniance was one of the things the road was gladly getting away from years later when moving into one of the consolidated depots that came along.
Back to the Texas Eagle for a moment. Tonight, April 6th, No. 21 had five cars, which is two or three fewer from its pre-COVID-19 consist.
How much less in percentage would the fuel burn be pulling five cars as opposed to seven?
Convicted One Deggesty When I traveled east two years ago, we headed into Chicago; my trip a year and a half ago was the first one on which we backed in. Except when coming fromNew Orleans, all the other trains I have ridden into Chicago headed in. I recall reading somewhere that ORIGINALLY in Chicago, where one of the eastern trunks shared depot space with one of the western roads....the arrangement was causing one of the roads to have to back in.....no I can't cite the source, I looked briefly and can't find it. But what I recall was the explanation that this stated inconveniance was one of the things the road was gladly getting away from years later when moving into one of the consolidated depots that came along.
Deggesty When I traveled east two years ago, we headed into Chicago; my trip a year and a half ago was the first one on which we backed in. Except when coming fromNew Orleans, all the other trains I have ridden into Chicago headed in.
DeggestyHmm, I wonder which station that was--Dearborn St., LaSalle St., Grand Central, Central? I don't think that Union Station would have given such a problem, but I may be wrong.
I don't believe that it was any of the stations in their most recent configuration. Some of them were built and rebuilt on the same dirt multiple times I believe. Others were abandoned completely in the name of consolidation. My gut tells me we are talking pre 1900 original build date. Obviously since I cant find my source, I can give no meaningful specifics. I wish that I could.
The Denver station was built as a thru station. Sometime in the Amtrak era the south connections were severed, but there were still ladder tracks at both ends. About 10 years ago, the south ladder tracks were removed when the station was rebuilt as a stub ended terminal. Wether CZ pulls-in or backs-in, one way or another it must back thru a leg of the wye formed by the different lines coming into the station from the north, in order to continue the journey.
PJS1On the three different occasions that I rode Amtrak's CZ, if I remember correctly, it backed into Denver. I don't know if trains had to back into Denver before the arrival of Amtrak.
In 1968, the CZ backed into Denver by going around a wye before the B.U. move. The power was changed. This I believe was the normal routine.
The South ladder tracks were used by trains to and from Colorado Sprrings and Pueblo, the Royal Gorge route, the conncection to the AT&SF main. CS-FW&DC to Texas, La Veta Pass to Alamosa, and the MP to Kansas City and St. Louis.
Everything else used the north ladder track, CB&Q east to Chicago, UP-CR&P to Limon and then to KC (UP) and Chicago (CR&P). UP north to Cheyenne, CB&Q north to Billings and East to Chicago, and the D&RGW Moffat Tunnel line. So the CZ always had a back-up move, and the Exposition Flyer before it.
Not sure, but I think I remember reading the South Park, later Co. Sou., narrow gauge also came in from the north.
In Jacksonville, the ACL-FEC trains could run through the station. All other through trains had to have a backup move, since only the FEC accesses the station from the south.
Back again to No. 21, the Texas Eagle. I saw it tonight in Temple, TX. There were no passengers in the dining car, only one in the lounge car, and no one boarded or deboarded the train. Well, that's not exactly true. Two smokers got off the train for a puff. And afterwards got back on.
Makes me wonder. Amtrak dropped the transition sleeper and one coach, presumably due to low ridership. Would it make sense to drop the dining car and up grade the menu in the lounge car?
If the Texas Eagle had four cars as opposed to seven, would there be a significant savings in fuel consumed?
It would be interesting to know how many people are actually riding trains. If it's like the airlines, the ridership would be down 80-90%.
Cannot speak to the services offered on the Texas Eagle; but we rode the SW Chief in Feb of this year. Had a good evening dinner in the Dining Car, but used the Snack Bar located on the lower level of the Sightseer Lounge Car...It was well stocked,,but no cooked items were offered, only commercially available packaged and bagged snacks, and bottled drinks. Trip was roughly 12 or so hours on train. Only stops made for short time lengths were for boarding passengers and to allow smokers,off and back on.
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