BackshopAtlas is one of those last minute, low cost cargo carriers, just like Kalitta. They hire low-time pilots who want to fly big planes but normally can't get hired by the majors.
Atlas is the world's largest operator of Boeing 747 cargo freighters. They are contracted with Boeing to fly parts to the assembly plants.
Atlas, in conjunction with the U.S. Air Force, provides training for the pilots of Air Force One.
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
York1 Backshop Atlas is one of those last minute, low cost cargo carriers, just like Kalitta. They hire low-time pilots who want to fly big planes but normally can't get hired by the majors. Atlas is the world's largest operator of Boeing 747 cargo freighters. They are contracted with Boeing to fly parts to the assembly plants. Atlas, in conjunction with the U.S. Air Force, provides training for the pilots of Air Force One.
Backshop Atlas is one of those last minute, low cost cargo carriers, just like Kalitta. They hire low-time pilots who want to fly big planes but normally can't get hired by the majors.
Well John, there seems to be a wide difference of opinion about Flynn. It is noteworthy that the normally voluble Balt is silent on Flynn, even though he should have a lot of knowledge about him.
Charlie, of all the posters on this forum, I probably have the least knowledge of the subject.
For over 40 years, Amtrak, outside of the NEC, tried to run a modern railroad using 1950s thinking. At least Anderson, and now Flynn, seem willing to make changes that could possibly bring Amtrak into the modern world.
747-8Fs started service in 2011 and had received so far 108 orders. You should understand that 747s have evolved over the years and later models are actually very different aircraft from the originals 50 years ago.
BaltACDPeople with the resources to own and operate private railroad cars normally have very deep political ties and influence.
I agree, especially the non-AAPRCO owners especially like Charter Steel and Quad Graphics (whom I think sold their trainset). Anyhow, both those companies have political influence due to their size and number of employees.
charlie hebdo 747-8Fs started service in 2011 and had received so far 108 orders. You should understand that 747s have evolved over the years and later models are actually very different aircraft from the originals 50 years ago.
Your point was that Flynn's Atlas has a) non-union, b) poorly-trained pilots flying c) antiquated aircraft. From that we are supposed to infer that d) Flynn is bad news?
I will assume your statement a) that Atlas is non-union is true. You offer no evidence for b) and c) is obviously not true. So d) is simply not supported.
charlie hebdo Your point was that Flynn's Atlas has a) non-union, b) poorly-trained pilots flying c) antiquated aircraft. From that we are supposed to infer that d) Flynn is bad news? I will assume your statement a) that Atlas is non-union is true. You offer no evidence for b) and c) is obviously not true. So d) is simply not supported.
1. I never mentioned the union.
2. I never said poorly trained. I did say low-hour. There is an acceptable level of training and then there is quite a bit of training above that. That's why some foreign airlines had more problems with the 737 Max than major western airlines.
3. I never said the 747 was antiquated. It's more like obsolescent. There are hardly any in passenger service; none with US airlines. What I said was that having the largest 747 freighter fleet wasn't that prestigious.
4. My only point about Flynn was that he was also from the airline industry but, unlike Anderson, it wasn't even a passenger carrier.
1. My error. The poster just before you mentioned unions.
2. Saying Atlas'pilots couldn't get jobs on the major airlines certainly is a snarky way of suggesting poorly trained or not very competent., along with mentioning a crash.
3. You said it was "yesterday's aircraft." Antiquated (meaning out of date) or obsolescent (meaning in the process of becoming obsolete) are synonyms. Given the recency of orders of newer models, your statement is false.
4. Flynn is also from the rail industry (CSX).
charlie hebdo 3. You said it was "yesterday's aircraft." Antiquated (meaning out of date) or obsolescent (meaning in the process of becoming obsolete) are synonyms. Given the recency of orders of newer models, your statement is false. 4. Flynn is also from the rail industry (CSX).
You are the compulsive nitpicker, sir. First you disputed York in a manner that seems trivial. Frankly, you are wrong on points 2-4. Try making accurate posts or run the risk that others will correct you. I admitted to an error in attribution. You might try the same.
Well, there are B-52's out there being flown by the grandsons of the original pilots. And it's not because the Air Force is parsimonious, it's because the planes are that good.
How old an aircraft is isn't as important as how well it's maintained. Theoretically B-52's will still be flying when they hit the 75 year old mark, there's no reason a 747 can't do the same.
And I'll bet you there will be DC-3's flying when they hit the 100 year old mark, which isn't that far off, for some of them.
Getting back to railroadin', remember what Don Colangelo, the "Alco Doctor" says...
"Anthing's a piece of junk if you don't take care of it."
charlie hebdo York1 Backshop Atlas is one of those last minute, low cost cargo carriers, just like Kalitta. They hire low-time pilots who want to fly big planes but normally can't get hired by the majors. Atlas is the world's largest operator of Boeing 747 cargo freighters. They are contracted with Boeing to fly parts to the assembly plants. Atlas, in conjunction with the U.S. Air Force, provides training for the pilots of Air Force One. Well John, there seems to be a wide difference of opinion about Flynn. It is noteworthy that the normally voluble Balt is silent on Flynn, even though he should have a lot of knowledge about him.
If he was VP of Stategy or whatever in his 2000-2002 stint with CSX - he was about as far away from working midnights in the Dufford Dispatch Center as possible. His stint was before Michael Ward got the top job and dug the company out of the mess that John Snow had created before he became Treasurer of the USA under Bush 43.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Thanks. What was the scuttlebutt about him? A creative guy or brownnoser?
Flintlock76 Well, there are B-52's out there being flown by the grandsons of the original pilots. And it's not because the Air Force is parsimonious, it's because the planes are that good. How old an aircraft is isn't as important as how well it's maintained. Theoretically B-52's will still be flying when they hit the 75 year old mark, there's no reason a 747 can't do the same. And I'll bet you there will be DC-3's flying when they hit the 100 year old mark, which isn't that far off, for some of them. Getting back to railroadin', remember what Don Colangelo, the "Alco Doctor" says... "Anthing's a piece of junk if you don't take care of it."
My sentiments exactly. There are lots of old restored military aircraft that fly very well, a few from WWI.
charlie hebdoThanks. What was the scuttlebutt about him? A creative guy or brownnoser?
At the operations level, I never heard of him or any scuttlebutt about him, never knew he existed. At the time the Official Guide to Railway Executives listed almost 200 individuals that had the title of Assistant Vice President or higher. Nobody but the President and direct reports in the operations chain of command would even be noticed.
charlie hebdo Flintlock76 Well, there are B-52's out there being flown by the grandsons of the original pilots. And it's not because the Air Force is parsimonious, it's because the planes are that good. How old an aircraft is isn't as important as how well it's maintained. Theoretically B-52's will still be flying when they hit the 75 year old mark, there's no reason a 747 can't do the same. And I'll bet you there will be DC-3's flying when they hit the 100 year old mark, which isn't that far off, for some of them. Getting back to railroadin', remember what Don Colangelo, the "Alco Doctor" says... "Anthing's a piece of junk if you don't take care of it." My sentiments exactly. There are lots of old restored military aircraft that fly very well, a few from WWI.
PS Aircraft are aged by pressurization cycles, not years.
Backshop charlie hebdo Flintlock76 Well, there are B-52's out there being flown by the grandsons of the original pilots. And it's not because the Air Force is parsimonious, it's because the planes are that good. How old an aircraft is isn't as important as how well it's maintained. Theoretically B-52's will still be flying when they hit the 75 year old mark, there's no reason a 747 can't do the same. And I'll bet you there will be DC-3's flying when they hit the 100 year old mark, which isn't that far off, for some of them. Getting back to railroadin', remember what Don Colangelo, the "Alco Doctor" says... "Anthing's a piece of junk if you don't take care of it." My sentiments exactly. There are lots of old restored military aircraft that fly very well, a few from WWI. Restored historic aircraft and commercially viable ones are two entirely different subjects. Come back to me and let me know how many 747s are still flying in regular service. Also, the military flies their planes much less than an airline. Most commercial airline aircraft are in the air a minimum of 10-12 hours a day. Pilots get 800-1000 hours a year vs military ones who are lucky to get a couple hundred. PS Aircraft are aged by pressurization cycles, not years.
Restored historic aircraft and commercially viable ones are two entirely different subjects. Come back to me and let me know how many 747s are still flying in regular service. Also, the military flies their planes much less than an airline. Most commercial airline aircraft are in the air a minimum of 10-12 hours a day. Pilots get 800-1000 hours a year vs military ones who are lucky to get a couple hundred.
The commercial carriers are parking the 747's mostly account fuel efficiency. New series of aircraft fly more people on less fuel. Pure economics.
I have not heard of anyone fitting the most modern of jet engines to 747's, thus they work their way down the food chain toward being scrap aluminum in time.
My understanding is the before the US Commercial Passenger carriers will let someone on the flight deck of their aircraft - the individuals need to have 1500 hours of flight logged. Foreign carriers in many cases have far less stringent requirements. Atlas and other similar operations also accept personnel on the flight deck with less than 1500 hours - pilots go to such operations so they can gain the necessary hours to go to the big airlines.
Balt--all correct. The only reason the 748 was introduced was as a competitor in a ****-measuring contest with Airbus because of their A380. Other than Emirates, the 380 didn't sell much and the line has been closed down. The 748i passenger version was also a flop. The last two built on spec models were sold to the USG for replacements for AF1. The 748F is hanging on by threads. Most cargo operators don't fly their aircraft enough to capitalize new-builds.
The 747s for AF1 are entirely different than ones in commercial operation. The biggest item is their 4 GE engines which are much more efficient than original P&W engines. These engines compare favorabley to the 2 engine 777 and 787 and A330s The 4 engines allow for much further operations from suitable airports than 2 engine aircraft. Think one engine failure.
747 = AF1s have 2 APUs, inflight refueling, and a host of other items not to be mentioned.
Remember AF1 is a designation of any airplane carrying the president and only when. Marine 1 is the helicopter carrying the president. If my cessna 182 was carring the president it would be AF1.
Now when the president goes on a secret trip to somewhere it will not be called AF1!.
The two 748s bought by the USAF were originally built for a Russian airline that went bankrupt and were never delivered. They have been stored in the desert. It will have to undergo quite a few modification to equipment but it started out as a standard airframe.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27179/exclusive-photos-future-air-force-one-747-has-left-california-to-begin-modification-in-texas
The engines are similar in thrust to the 787/A330 but much less than the 777.
I used the colloquial "AF1" because very few here would know what a VC25B was.
Here's a link to the background of the Atlas FO in the Texas crash. He had left one regional, was hired by two others, but let go both times. I read a quote in another article that he would make major mistakes but not be able to understand that it was a mistake. Their background checks must not be very thorough.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-19/pilot-in-fatal-atlas-air-crash-had-repeated-flight-test-failures
Backshop Here's a link to the background of the Atlas FO in the Texas crash. He had left one regional, was hired by two others, but let go both times. I read a quote in another article that he would make major mistakes but not be able to understand that it was a mistake. Their background checks must not be very thorough. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-19/pilot-in-fatal-atlas-air-crash-had-repeated-flight-test-failures
This from the Bloomberg article: "raised issues with pilot hiring practices and the availability of previous records of failures."
I guess poor hiring, vetting and training procedures are not exclusive to Amtrak.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
PJS1If Amtrak were a first class, competitive company, it would be looking for someone in his or her late 40s to early 50s to lead the company for the long haul. But it is not! It is in many respects it is a government agency masking itself as a viable business.
You're exactly correct. If it were a business, it would have been gone 40 years ago. This is the problem with government-run "businesses".
If we decide that Amtrak is necessary for our country, but it is not viable as a "business", then I have no problem with the government providing the service.
Regardless of whether Flynn comes from a second-class airline business, or that Anderson didn't have a railroad background, I support Amtrak hiring people like them who bring new ideas from business backgrounds.
Maybe leaders like this can bring Amtrak into the 21st Century
PJS1I cannot think of a dynamic, forward looking Fortune 500 Corporation, as an example, that would look to a 66-year-old former CEO for long-term leadership. Although there are exceptions, most of us have had our best years by the time we reach our mid-60s. Officers in my Fortune 225 employer were required to retire at 65. Most of them were worn out by then. If Amtrak were a first class, competitive company, it would be looking for someone in his or her late 40s to early 50s to lead the company for the long haul. But it is not! In many respects it is a government agency masking itself as a viable business.
And yet to lead the USA all we have are a group of septuagenarians.
PJS1Although there are exceptions, most of us have had our best years by the time we reach our mid-60s.
Speak for yourself; don't speak for me.
Ageism is a pervasive problem, and I don't like to see it encouraged.
Officers in my Fortune 225 employer were required to retire at 65. Most of them were worn out by then.
Simply by adding that 'most' you destroy the validity of the overall 'requirement'. If the decision to retire were based on some objective criteria (including 'burnout' for abusive or high-intensity corporate expectations) then it would make sense, even if the requirement (as for 'driving tests') is reassessed more often beyond a certain age. But simply to pretend that it's out with the old to bring in new blood is just the kind of discrimination that our society needs to lose ... especially as a tacit SOP.
Overmod PJS1 Although there are exceptions, most of us have had our best years by the time we reach our mid-60s. Speak for yourself; don't speak for me. Ageism is a pervasive problem, and I don't like to see it encouraged. Officers in my Fortune 225 employer were required to retire at 65. Most of them were worn out by then. Simply by adding that 'most' you destroy the validity of the overall 'requirement'. If the decision to retire were based on some objective criteria (including 'burnout' for abusive or high-intensity corporate expectations) then it would make sense, even if the requirement (as for 'driving tests') is reassessed more often beyond a certain age. But simply to pretend that it's out with the old to bring in new blood is just the kind of discrimination that our society needs to lose ... especially as a tacit SOP.
PJS1 Although there are exceptions, most of us have had our best years by the time we reach our mid-60s.
Those that detest their jobs flamed into effective incompetence long before they ever reached any retirement age, mandatory or authorized. The can't comprehend how anyone can enjoy their employment because they don't enjoy theirs.
BaltACD Overmod PJS1 Although there are exceptions, most of us have had our best years by the time we reach our mid-60s. Speak for yourself; don't speak for me. Ageism is a pervasive problem, and I don't like to see it encouraged. Officers in my Fortune 225 employer were required to retire at 65. Most of them were worn out by then. Simply by adding that 'most' you destroy the validity of the overall 'requirement'. If the decision to retire were based on some objective criteria (including 'burnout' for abusive or high-intensity corporate expectations) then it would make sense, even if the requirement (as for 'driving tests') is reassessed more often beyond a certain age. But simply to pretend that it's out with the old to bring in new blood is just the kind of discrimination that our society needs to lose ... especially as a tacit SOP. Those that detest their jobs flamed into effective incompetence long before they ever reached any retirement age, mandatory or authorized. The can't comprehend how anyone can enjoy their employment because they don't enjoy theirs.
And some got kicked upstairs into a lower stress job or got a golden parachute. Mandatory retirement at 65 was abolished long ago in many sectors. As OM said, it should not be arbitrary and should require an evaluation of relevant aspects of the person, cognitive, physical or emotional.
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