Trouble in paradise with the Talgo

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Trouble in paradise with the Talgo
Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, December 9, 2019 2:25 PM

Oh gee, it seems that Washington DOT is having issues with the Talgo contract.   Who could have guessed that might happen?......

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2019/12/08-orphan-talgo-equipment-returns-to-milwaukee-factory

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, December 9, 2019 5:28 PM

I think only you could pick a peripheral half-sentence out of a story about Washington getting more Talgo trains and try to churn it into more FUD about how bad Talgo is.

The Amtrak sets have been sitting up a half-decade so I'm not surprised they need a little attention at the factory, or that a little tinkering with the proprietary HEP turned out to be needed to move them.

Now if you can find an actual story about Washington DOT's maintenance contract issues, you can present it as a more legitimate anti-Talgo troll.

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Posted by Dmac844 on Thursday, December 12, 2019 4:55 PM

The whole Talgo saga since the DuPont, WA wreck has been fascinating to watch. I will state up front that I live in the Seattle area and am no fan of the Talgo's from a passenger point of view, I think they are about the worse train passenger experience overall that I have had.

But that being said, I do believe that Talgo has a legitimate complaint against the NTSB. My first thought when viewing the video of the accident was that the Talgo's held up pretty well considering the force of the wreck. And the NTSB condemnation boiled down to a wheel-set breaking away, again during a very violent accident. It will be interesting to see if Talgo can get the findings reversed.

But even if Talgo does prevail the public perception will be very hard to change. The NIMBY crowd that didn't want the Point Defiance bypass to go into service in the first place has latched onto this issue to push back on any attempt to start using the bypass again until all of the Talgo sets in question are replaced. So as I said, a fascinating story that continues to play out.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, December 12, 2019 8:40 PM

The Talgos with their single axle suspension system are an outlier, which seems to make it easier to dismiss them.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, December 13, 2019 5:27 AM

Overmod
Now if you can find an actual story about Washington DOT's maintenance contract issues, you can present it as a more legitimate anti-Talgo troll.

When I visit Wisconsin I sometimes get the unfortunate opportunity to see the North American Talgo spokesperson (from Spain.....couldn't hire an American for that position) on the local news.   He always comes across to me as a total sleezebag as well as his never ending and whiney: "We are the victims of Wisconsin"  propaganda while he stands in a taxpayer paid for and subsidized manufacturing plant (I am sure it makes the liberals sympathetic but it really pizzes me off).   Whenever he runs his mouth on TV you just want to hit the channel change button.

I guess I am mad because my tax money was used and is used to subsidize a substandard foriegn company to compete directly against American rail companies for American rail company business that could do a better job all because of an earlier quid pro quo with the state Democratic Party.    They still are using the state subsidized facility to low-bid rail contracts in the United States.    It should pizz all of you off as it does me.   The liberals of course see this as adding jobs to the state.   I see it as robbing Peter to pay Paul for political purposes.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, December 13, 2019 8:45 AM

"Pizz"? Is that a new drink,  sort of a grape fizz? 

So basically you have an emotional bias against Talgo because of your resentment of the screw-up in Wisconsin,  not based on any factual,  rational arguments about their well-liked performance in Washington State for years. 

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Friday, December 13, 2019 5:05 PM

Don't argue with him. He might leave in a huff, and then we'd no longer have an expert on what liberals think.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, December 14, 2019 2:17 AM

charlie hebdo
"Pizz"? Is that a new drink,  sort of a grape fizz?  So basically you have an emotional bias against Talgo because of your resentment of the screw-up in Wisconsin,  not based on any factual,  rational arguments about their well-liked performance in Washington State for years. 

Wisconsin did the right thing by cancelling their contract, it should have thrown them out of the state paid for facility as well but unfortunately they had to compromise with local politicians.   Now we have a firm from Spain competing with an unfair financial advantage against other American companies using taxpayer funding.......underwriting their cost advantage.

All the result of a Democratic Governor that wanted to run around and tell everyone what a jobs creator he was (of course with substantial taxpayer funds and subsidies).

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, December 14, 2019 6:41 AM

CMStPnP
 
charlie hebdo
"Pizz"? Is that a new drink,  sort of a grape fizz?  So basically you have an emotional bias against Talgo because of your resentment of the screw-up in Wisconsin,  not based on any factual,  rational arguments about their well-liked performance in Washington State for years. 

 

Wisconsin did the right thing by cancelling their contract, it should have thrown them out of the state paid for facility as well but unfortunately they had to compromise with local politicians.   Now we have a firm from Spain competing with an unfair financial advantage against other American companies using taxpayer funding.......underwriting their cost advantage.

All the result of a Democratic Governor that wanted to run around and tell everyone what a jobs creator he was (of course with substantial taxpayer funds and subsidies).

 
And just what is your opinion of Foxconn??
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Saturday, December 14, 2019 10:22 AM

I rode a Talgo train from Seattle to Portland. I think of them as homely and kind of not "real" trains. I was predisposed to not like it.

But I was pleasantly surprised by the passenger experience. It was smooth, fast, comfortable and there was a sense of spaciousness I did not expect.

I tend to think there is no problem with the WA Talgos. But they are now a political football. The problem is that the train was going way too fast, as all of you already know.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, December 14, 2019 10:53 AM

I think most folks that ride between Portland or Eugene and Seattle like the Talgo. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, December 14, 2019 11:12 AM

Lithonia Operator
I rode a Talgo train from Seattle to Portland. I think of them as homely and kind of not "real" trains. I was predisposed to not like it.

But I was pleasantly surprised by the passenger experience. It was smooth, fast, comfortable and there was a sense of spaciousness I did not expect.

I tend to think there is no problem with the WA Talgos. But they are now a political football. The problem is that the train was going way too fast, as all of you already know.

And in going too fast - it was not the train's fault.  It was the operators fault as he was the topmost element in a tree of failure that was planted and nurtured by Washington DOT with the assistance of Amtrak.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, December 14, 2019 11:35 AM

CSSHegewisch: Scoots Walker, in the service of the highway contractor lobby and beholden to Foxconn, a huge ripoff to the taxpayers. And it's not like they weren't known for those tactics already. 

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Saturday, December 14, 2019 4:43 PM

BaltACD

 

 
Lithonia Operator
I rode a Talgo train from Seattle to Portland. I think of them as homely and kind of not "real" trains. I was predisposed to not like it.

But I was pleasantly surprised by the passenger experience. It was smooth, fast, comfortable and there was a sense of spaciousness I did not expect.

I tend to think there is no problem with the WA Talgos. But they are now a political football. The problem is that the train was going way too fast, as all of you already know.

 

And in going too fast - it was not the train's fault.  It was the operators fault as he was the topmost element in a tree of failure that was planted and nurtured by Washington DOT with the assistance of Amtrak.

 

Do you mean "operator" as in the engineer? Or the agency which governed the train?

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, December 14, 2019 9:41 PM

Lithonia Operator
 
BaltACD 
Lithonia Operator
I rode a Talgo train from Seattle to Portland. I think of them as homely and kind of not "real" trains. I was predisposed to not like it.

But I was pleasantly surprised by the passenger experience. It was smooth, fast, comfortable and there was a sense of spaciousness I did not expect.

I tend to think there is no problem with the WA Talgos. But they are now a political football. The problem is that the train was going way too fast, as all of you already know. 

And in going too fast - it was not the train's fault.  It was the operators fault as he was the topmost element in a tree of failure that was planted and nurtured by Washington DOT with the assistance of Amtrak. 

Do you mean "operator" as in the engineer? Or the agency which governed the train?

Really both - Engineer was at the throttle was qualified on the route in name only as the accelerated and abbreviated route qualification training curriculum was being performed in accordance with Washington DOT's start of service date.

The engineer had no idea where he was in the operation of his train because of inadequate route qualification, there was no other truly qualified person in the cab with the engineer.

Earlier today I watched a video about another rail incident that happened because of personnel that were not adequately qualified on their duties and on the equipment they were operationg.  Much higher death toll.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLhAEq-3VQ0

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, December 15, 2019 7:07 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
And just what is your opinion of Foxconn??

Same thing, I'm consistent in the position no matter who does it.   I think it is borderline criminal to use taxpayer money as a incentive for a business to build when in most cases they would have built anyway.    It's not creating jobs it is wasting taxpayer money at the same time hurting companies without the incentive that build via normal means.   

Though FOXCONN is not bidding against other American Companies for business.  It had the business already before it arrived onshore.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, December 16, 2019 7:32 AM

CMStPnP
 
CSSHEGEWISCH
And just what is your opinion of Foxconn?? 

Same thing, I'm consistent in the position no matter who does it.   I think it is borderline criminal to use taxpayer money as a incentive for a business to build when in most cases they would have built anyway.    It's not creating jobs it is wasting taxpayer money at the same time hurting companies without the incentive that build via normal means.   

Though FOXCONN is not bidding against other American Companies for business.  It had the business already before it arrived onshore.

There is no question that expanding businesses will build facilities when necessary.

Where State and/or local governments get involved with tax dollars is trying to entice exactly where that facility will be built.  The State and/or local governments want the jobs that those facilities generate to be in the taxing area defined by the government making the play for the expansion.

The governments are trying to increase their tax base with such plays.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, December 16, 2019 9:51 AM

BaltACD

 

 
CMStPnP
 
CSSHEGEWISCH
And just what is your opinion of Foxconn?? 

Same thing, I'm consistent in the position no matter who does it.   I think it is borderline criminal to use taxpayer money as a incentive for a business to build when in most cases they would have built anyway.    It's not creating jobs it is wasting taxpayer money at the same time hurting companies without the incentive that build via normal means.   

Though FOXCONN is not bidding against other American Companies for business.  It had the business already before it arrived onshore.

 

There is no question that expanding businesses will build facilities when necessary.

Where State and/or local governments get involved with tax dollars is trying to entice exactly where that facility will be built.  The State and/or local governments want the jobs that those facilities generate to be in the taxing area defined by the government making the play for the expansion.

The governments are trying to increase their tax base with such plays.

 

Likely pols and Walker were looking to line their own pockets from the Foxconn eal,since it had a prior record of reneging on jobs for incentives to relocate to other locations. Pay to play with WI taxpayer dollars, biggly.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Tuesday, December 17, 2019 9:51 PM

charlie hebdo
Likely pols and Walker were looking to line their own pockets from the Foxconn eal,since it had a prior record of reneging on jobs for incentives to relocate to other locations. Pay to play with WI taxpayer dollars, biggly.

Walker is no longer Governor and his old geezer Democratic Party replacement is following the same script as Walker.    He denies it but where is the evidence he has withdrawn any taxpayer funds from the deal?    He says he is different but follows the exact same policy in regards to FOXCONN.

And for that matter his policy towards Amtrak is the exact same as Walker as well.   Incremental updates for Chicago to Milwaukee, Wisconsin will jump on board with a second Empire Builder frequency if Minnesota pays in (Chicago to St. Paul).......but nothing more.    Chicago - Milwaukee - Madison is once again dead in the water.    Milwaukee - Green Bay  still only a rough sketch.   Wisconsin could afford all four projects at once if it had the political will power.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, December 17, 2019 10:41 PM
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Posted by Gramp on Wednesday, December 18, 2019 11:39 AM

Walker's a promoter. Evers isn't. Corning wouldn't build a glass plant needed to produce the large sized screens. The only one in existence is in Asia. It's too bad if this ends up going south as America has little of the know how to make this kind of stuff. Could it be a question of not recognizing the Asian way of doing things?

Would rather have rail focus be on bringing Chi-Milw to higher standard of service. Extension to Waukesha County including seasonal stop at Miller Park/Fairgrounds. Clocker service. 

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, December 18, 2019 11:45 AM

Gramp
Walker's a promoter. Evers isn't. Corning wouldn't build a glass plant needed to produce the large sized screens. The only one in existence is in Asia. It's too bad if this ends up going south as America has little of the know how to make this kind of stuff. Could it be a question of not recognizing the Asian way of doing things?

I would not care if it headed South, that specific area of Wisconsin is developing just fine without FOXCONN.    Didn't need tax incentives to lure development there, only needed state attention to fix up the infrastructure more.

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