I believe that the CNJ ferries were discontinued with the implementation of the Aldene Plan in 1967 or 1968, which also closed the Jersey City terminal. EL's ferries were discontinued at about the same time.
Shooting my own theory that at least some buses used the tunnels even further in the foot: the CNJ ferries, largely patronized by the Jersey Central commuter trains, kept running years after the B&O took off all passenger service, and continued carrying vehicles during part if not all of the remaining years.
Here is some original-source proof:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6tRz9cDQG0
Note the vehicles visible on the deck - I'd love to get that convertible top down on the other side, go up to the West Side Highway southbound, and cruise around the tip of lower Manhattan at speed in the air ... it was, for a brief shining moment in my childhood, like flying.
MiningmanBus turntable in left background between trackage
I had seen the ads for the bus transfer showing the buses adjacent to the trains but I never knew they were on a narrow platform with a turntable to turn them around. Thanks to you, I learned something new. When did the ferries stop running? I thought the buses used the tunnels after the ferries stopped.
BaltACDOne important correction: The Baltimore and Ohio Tran-Connection buses did not use the Holland or Lincoln Tunnels. They used the Central of New Jersey Railroad ferryboats.
I keep learning this. And then I keep forgetting.
I do have to wonder, though, whether the ferry access -- if the boats could go as quick as the connection time of the Bullet indicated -- was substantially faster than going over to either of the tunnels, through it, and then back up to the 'circuit' and the Chanin Building ... especially at rush-hour traffic time.
I found a brief video of some bus action at the Jersey Central terminal, including the bus turntable. Here you go...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rj1VTVkfcw
Miningman Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 19, 2019 12:54 PM One important correction: The Baltimore and Ohio Tran-Connection buses did not use the Holland or Lincoln Tunnels. They used the Central of New Jersey Railroad ferryboats. Rode it in 1945. Both ways on a school trip to Washington, leaving from the Columbus Circle B&O station and returning there. https://books.google.com/books?id=WaDY5i7D-3gC&pg=PA57&dq=%22The+B%26O+buses+at+times%22&hl=en&ppis=_c&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjekY3WhKnlAhUimeAKHTSwAYUQ6AEwAHoECAAQAg#v=onepage&q=%22The%20B%26O%20buses%20at%20times%22&f=false
One important correction: The Baltimore and Ohio Tran-Connection buses did not use the Holland or Lincoln Tunnels. They used the Central of New Jersey Railroad ferryboats. Rode it in 1945. Both ways on a school trip to Washington, leaving from the Columbus Circle B&O station and returning there.
http://cs.trains.com/ctr/f/3/t/230410.aspx
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
One important correction: The Baltimore and Ohio Tran-Connection buses did not use the Holland or Lincoln Tunnels. They used the Central of New Jersey Railraod ferryboats. Rode it in 1945. Both ways on a school trip to Washington, leaving from the Columbus Circle B&O station and returning there.
The Susquahanna Railroad terminated its steam passenger trains and Patterson downtown diesel railcars, perdicessors of the RDCs built around 1939. at the Erie Jersey City (Pamona) Station. But they also had a bus connection station and did run connectng buses through (I believe) the Holland Tunnel. (May have beeen the Lincioln.)
charlie hebdoMaybe it's the Saturday morning fog, but I didn't grasp the riposte!
That's because it's not a riposte. I was just making sure the OP had the opportunity to say if he'd gotten the answer he wanted ... New York style!
(Oh, wait, did you mean the Dick Morris-flavored insult? That warn't serious.)
Overmod charlie hebdo A perusal of the pertinent posts answered Ulrich's question about access to Manhattan and corrected Dave's error about Chicago. Yes, but I can find no pertinent post where the OP acknowledges we answered what he asked, to his satisfaction.
charlie hebdo A perusal of the pertinent posts answered Ulrich's question about access to Manhattan and corrected Dave's error about Chicago.
Yes, but I can find no pertinent post where the OP acknowledges we answered what he asked, to his satisfaction.
Different folks have differing standards. It was self-evident so maybe he saw no reason.
Maybe it's the Saturday morning fog, but I didn't grasp the riposte!
charlie hebdoIn Chicago, we needn't look far or bother with Latin for insults to toss when you are flanked by Cheeseheads and Hoosiers.
That's good, but something like 'urbs in whore toe' comes pretty quickly to mind as a riposte...
(Well, you did say it would be Cheeseheads and Hoosiers who would be receiving the initial insulting...)
charlie hebdoA perusal of the pertinent posts answered Ulrich's question about access to Manhattan and corrected Dave's error about Chicago.
A perusal of the pertinent posts answered Ulrich's question about access to Manhattan and corrected Dave's error about Chicago.
daveklepperThe Phoebe Snow and the longer-lasting Lake Cities could have run in and out of Grand Central, Grand Central, Chicago, that is.
Did we ever hear back from the OP that this was what he meant? I clearly understood him to be saying the train ran between Hoboken and Buffalo, with the implication that terminating it so close to Manhattan but not actually in Manhattan was the question.
I do still find it surprising that the Erie, or the Lackawanna, did not provide the same kind of connecting dedicated bus service, perhaps with enhanced amenities a la Pickwick, to go through the Holland Tunnel (and later the Lincoln Tunnel) to make connections to both Penn and Grand Central and to service associated points in Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens. B&O did this with what I consider great effectiveness... but only as a last-mile connection, and of course not past relatively early termination of all long-distance passenger service by it.
It might also be added that connecting ferry service (with the luxury buses running under or accessing the West Side elevated highway as appropriate, or limo/cab service in reserved ranks at train time) could be provided with surprisingly little impact on overall trip time. We might remember in this regard the short-lived CNJ Bullet to northeastern Pennsylvania, which involved only something like 12 minutes (actual, in timetable as part of the overall 4'30" timing) for the entire ferry trip plus transfer to the train on the New Jersey side and presumably vice versa. How cost-effective it might be to run boats this way is another matter, but they could easily be combined with other ferry service scheduling.
As an additional issue: I am quite certain that both the Erie and the Lackawanna would have been interested in the various trans-Hudson joint bridge projects, one of which I believe was still 'active' as late as 1923. As I recall, these were to share some kind of union station, either in lower Manhattan (where the action still was, prior to the West Side development and surge uptown following development and construction of rapid transit) or somewhere in the Manhattan Valley area (ended as Harlem became essentially de-gentrified after being highly developed).
I still think a combination Trans-Manhattan Expressway and multiple-track joint HSR and freight project is attractive... except that an expensively-reconstructed Riverside Drive arch bridge, and the somewhat lower IRT bridge, squarely block its most likely envelope. Note that a Union Station for such a bridge, were it to be constructed 'back in the day', would have involved elevators or motorstairs 'up' from the 125th St. NYC station, and a relatively simple connection to the Hell Gate Bridge involving about the same curvature as on the approach to the great arch bridge itself. Note that this would involve a height perhaps greater even than Suicide Curve in the Cathedral Parkway area, which is only 15 short blocks south of the projected trans-Manhattan route... or perhaps given quicker impetus to removing some of the el trackage on the various intersecting avenues earlier than it actually was.
There is a similar curve (or curve and tunnel) requirement west of the Palisades (which do not 'dip' as the Manhattan Valley does at that point) to access many of the area railroads -- but other cities had equally heroic approach requirements, for far less traffic and prestige.
Interesting, too, is that it would have given New Haven direct connecting access to all three New York 'union stations', and opened up the potential for additional optimized connections or quick run-through trains than just the ones with the Pennsylvania. And it would have provided a simple alternative for any of the remediation problems, or extra construction impediments, associated with rebuilding the ex-PRR River Tunnels or something like the part of Access to the Region's Core rebuilding of the Penn Station/Moynihan Station layout...
In Chicago, we needn't look far or bother with Latin for insults to toss when you are flanked by Cheeseheads and Hoosiers.
From Mike:
As a 7-year old boy, I recall watching some trains at the station in my aunt's town, Hohokus. Would that have been the Erie?
Flintlock76I could bring up the English Channel Island called Jersey, but that's a bit far off.
Also far off ... but at the same time immediately present ... is the Latin name of which "Jersey" is a corruption: Nova Cæsarea. We find it on early coinage, current college diplomas, in a variant spelling on the original deed of gift to Carteret et al.
Pity it's not still in the official seal, the way the adjectival 'Novi Eboraci' still characterizes that certain other adjacent state containing a funny-sounding name.
DeggestyBack in antiquity, there was a song with state names scattered through it.
Better still, back in antiquity, there was a song with New Jersey place names scattered through it.
If Wayne doesn't know this ... and even if he does ... this ought to make him smile. Wait for the little sigh at the end as he gives up.
(Now I have to go back and finish my version for Pennsylvania, the state chock-full of inadvertently salacious place names...)
charlie hebdo Another Mike post from the archive. Gee, do you think it's possible we might have learned a little more about the Palisades in 100+ years?
Another Mike post from the archive. Gee, do you think it's possible we might have learned a little more about the Palisades in 100+ years?
We sure have!
https://www.njpalisades.org Click on the blue highlighted parts for the fun to begin, especially the "Cliff Notes."
PS: The rocks haven't changed, even if other things have, and mind you, the Erie, the Lackawanna, the Susquehanna, and the West Shore & Buffalo (Became the New York Central) had to punch through that rock to access the Hudson River. Quite a feat.
And good one, NKP Guy! Had us rollin' on the floor!
A joke from the 1970's:
Question: Why does New York have all the lawyers & bankers, while New Jersey has all the refineries, chemical plants, slaughterhouses (I'm looking at you, Elizabeth, NJ), and landfills?
Answer: New Jersey had first pick.
I still smile at that.
Mike weighs in:
To which I add... definitely a Diabase Sill but watch out for the Manhattan Schist ....Miningman
We could bring another state into the conversation. Back in antiquity, there was a song with state names scattered through it. However, I rememer only one pair=="Wjhat did Della wear, boys, what did Della wear? The answer should be obvious.
She wore her New Jersey, boys, she wore her New Jersey....
Johnny
BaltACD Flintlock76 Greatest T-shirt I ever owned said this on the chest... "Welcome to New Jersey! Now, GO HOME!" And don't get me (or Buddy the Cake Boss for that matter) started on "Jersey Shore!" THOSE people weren't even from New Jersey, they were New Yorkers! And besides Jersey Shore is a town in Pennsylvania!
Flintlock76 Greatest T-shirt I ever owned said this on the chest... "Welcome to New Jersey! Now, GO HOME!" And don't get me (or Buddy the Cake Boss for that matter) started on "Jersey Shore!" THOSE people weren't even from New Jersey, they were New Yorkers!
"Welcome to New Jersey! Now, GO HOME!"
And don't get me (or Buddy the Cake Boss for that matter) started on "Jersey Shore!"
THOSE people weren't even from New Jersey, they were New Yorkers!
And besides Jersey Shore is a town in Pennsylvania!
AND there's an unincorporated community in Prince George County VA called Jersey!
I could bring up the English Channel Island called Jersey, but that's a bit far off.
Flintlock76Greatest T-shirt I ever owned said this on the chest... "Welcome to New Jersey! Now, GO HOME!" And don't get me (or Buddy the Cake Boss for that matter) started on "Jersey Shore!" THOSE people weren't even from New Jersey, they were New Yorkers!
Greatest T-shirt I ever owned said this on the chest...
SD70DudeYou Jerseyfolk are reminding me of the South Park episode!
We had a long-standing conspiracy in the media to keep non-New Jerseyans unaware of the good parts of the state, and corral them to the NEC and Turnpike/GSP industrial belt so they would keep going through and not stray to spoil the goodness, or settle and run the real-estate prices up. It worked surprisingly well in the years I was there, and appears to still be working pretty well. The Jersey Shore contribution was particularly valuable.
SD70Dude You Jerseyfolk are reminding me of the South Park episode!
You Jerseyfolk are reminding me of the South Park episode!
Don't get us started, we'll hijack this thread like you wouldn't believe!
Oh, what the hell, here you go Charlie, any of these shots look familiar?
https://www.subwaynut.com/njt/hohokus/index.html
And just a little extra, here's the station in "The 'Wood".
https://www.subwaynut.com/njt/ridgewood/index.html
The whole website's a gas, he's gone everywhere!
https://www.subwaynut.com
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