Road mileage from Bakersfield to Merceed is [by Google] 164 mi.
In all the articles, and TV News Broadcasts concerning the Cal HSR Line; I do not remember seeing any totals as to 'line completed', or any justifications as to the money spent, and project 'finished'.
I did see a broadcast report last week that mentioned that there were apparently, some political andfinancial 'shenanigans'; in regards to the way, the HSR Line was being constructed; as well as hiring practices within the construction companies.
Singled out were those organizations that were at work on the HSR line. [excess workforce(?), slow progress on the construction(?), and apparently, money being siphoned off for other 'local projects' that were being worked on in conjunction with the HSR funds(?)]
Did anyone expect a government construction contract in CA with all the unions and politicans involved to actually be run like a private construction contract? That sounds like the definition of "wishful thinking".
54light15 Whappens to the bridges and what not that have already been built?
Whappens to the bridges and what not that have already been built?
MidlandMikeIllinois was bringing the CHI-STL line up to 110mph (I think, or was it 125mph?)
I believe that is the next step but initially it will be 110 mph, initially the Midwest High Speed Rail compact or whatever it is called choose 110 mph as a goal because politically it is easier to achieve than a direct jump to 125 mph and beyond. Additionally, it was the Max I believe the freight railroads would agree to on shared service lines. So they all chose 110 mph, just to get more competitive schedules and increased ridership.
However, I believe once they achieve 110 mph your going to see the next step which would be move the freight off most of the route and bump it up to 125 mph. WisDOT has already made some initial steps into looking at getting UP and CP on the same ex-C&NW line between Milwaukee and Chicago. I don't think either railroad is radically opposed to sharing the same line as long as they get WisDOT or another entity to improve it AND CP is already using UP from Glenview, IL to reach Bensenville yard (according to that protest group in Glenview). So moving CP to the UP would only require a connection track in Milwaukee.
However then there is the cost of buying the CP line, paying for improvements on the UP line, fixing the METRA part of the CP line to be faster. All that is a huge jump in capital costs for WisDOT. Probably could be done in installments over like 7-10 years or so but the State legislature is not going to expend more than $300 million a year on that corridor and even that much is a lot to swallow.
I don't know what the State of Illinois is willing to kick in over time to bump up Chicago to St. Louis speeds. I think Illinois has additional routes it wants to activate like Chicago to Quad Cities, plus other priorities it has of slowly rebuilding the track around Chicago to be more efficient, replacing METRA bridges (400 need replacement?). Not sure what it would take to get UP to move off the Chicago to St. Louis line but I also do not see Chicago to St. Louis as so congested they couldn't be moved to another line.
Chicago to Detroit is already devoid of most of it's frieght so it has the best chance to reach 125 mph first. Just headed South of Detroit there seemed to be a lot of active tracks to Toledo when I lived there in the 1990's not to mention the routes just West of Detroit that eventually junctioned with the Northern Ohio or Indiana former NYC route. I can see how they were able to easily shift frieght off the former MI Central route across the Southern part of Michigan. That line was surplus a long time ago.
So looks like 110 mph at least for 10 years or more unless the Feds cough up a lot more money. Except Michigan might have a shot sooner given it has little or no freight trains on it.
BTW, also on the WisDOT list is resurecting Milwaukee to Green Bay, WI rail service via the Fox River Valley (probably via CN now). That seems to be a back seat priority at the moment to Milwaukee to Chicago and the second train from Milwaukee to the Twin Cities. They did a feasibility study back in the 1990's when there was a lot more track options in place on Milwaukee to Green Bay, WI and the cost was approx $150-200 million just to get one train going on the route.
The last passenger trains run over that route was a few fan trips via Wisconsin Central to both Fond Du Lac and Oshkosh over the Wisconsin Central in the late 1980's. Last group to run one was 20th Century Railroad Club, they stopped running Chicago to Oshkosh EAA right after the CN takeover....because CN pulled up their holding track in Oshkosh as well as they were getting increasing amounts of pushback by CN over using the route for fan trips during their attempts to plan the next one.
J. BishopAnd what highspeed rail projects are Illinois and Michigan building?
Actually they are HrSR projects. The State of Michigan bought the line from Kalamazoo to Dearborn from NS using $150 million that Wisconsin and Ohio turned back to the Feds. Then they brought the line up to 79mph, and now they are bringing it up to 110mph with more fed $.
Illinois was bringing the CHI-STL line up to 110mph (I think, or was it 125mph?)
7j43k 54light15 Whappens to the bridges and what not that have already been built? California will, at its own expense, install trackage and complete the line from Merced to Bakersfield. Merced is home to the latest campus of the University of California. Bakersfield is home to the best country music on the west coast. And bars (maybe NOT the best on the west coast--must do some research on that). Thus California will reap big profits on transporting vast numbers of college students to listen to country music and drink. And back. At 200 mph, so as not to be late for class. And those profits can pay for finishing the links to San Francisco and Anaheim (will the station really be at the Disneyland gates?). Simple logic! Ed
California will, at its own expense, install trackage and complete the line from Merced to Bakersfield.
Merced is home to the latest campus of the University of California. Bakersfield is home to the best country music on the west coast. And bars (maybe NOT the best on the west coast--must do some research on that).
Thus California will reap big profits on transporting vast numbers of college students to listen to country music and drink. And back. At 200 mph, so as not to be late for class.
And those profits can pay for finishing the links to San Francisco and Anaheim (will the station really be at the Disneyland gates?).
Simple logic!
Ed
Progress never comes without complaints from the regressives.
All the same BS 'complaints' that were formulated in the 1830's to 1870's about railroads in general.
Progressives see the future in 20/20 vision, regressives see the future in 20/400 vision.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Fitness trail? LOL
J. BishopI should say "neglected rural," because neither party is really paying them much attention-- so they understandably detest Washington and government.
Well hey,...at least we still have our guns and our antipathy for those who are not like us.
charlie hebdoTimeline February 12: Gov Newsom announces dealys in CA HSR. February 15: Gov. Newsom announces CA will sue to block Trump's so-called national emergency executive order. February 19: FRA sends Notice of Intent to Terminate Cooperative Agreement to Gov. Newsom. Mere coincidence? You can be the judge.
Both politicians have their own agenda. However you can tell via Newsoms follow on comments he later read the terms of the grant and knew his previous comments threw the state into a breach of the agreement (and you can read it specifically highlighted in the FRA letter linked above). Of course Newsome is going to try and breach the agreement and keep the money.......thats what politicians do and that is what the discretionary grant process was designed to prevent. Thats precisely why it is a discretionary grant with performance measures, this has happened in the past repeatedly. Federal sponsored projects never get completed and the taxpayer never sees a real return on their spent money.
When Wisconsin breached the agreement for the money, it was cancelled and redistributed to other states. Same with Ohio. Same with Florida.
OK well I will let you Google that, not my role to continually recite history to those that don't want to look. All three states CA, MI and IL got these discretionary grants under Obamas DOT which was attempting economic stimulus via developing high speed rail.
It was a discretionary grant with performance measures regarding compliance with the grants terms. TIGER grants work the same way. The State of California wasn't just handed the money they had to show both the DOT and FRA how the project would benefit California economically and how it would meet specific performance criteria by specific dates. Now California tore all that up and is saying we get to keep the money we obtained under false pretenses. What about the other states that took the process seriously and also competed for the money?
California was chosen based on it's grant application among like 20 other states that were also bidding for the money. The program was run by both DOT and FRA, Ray LaHood who is Republican was Obama's appointee to help choose the projects and award the winners in the bid process.
At any rate a simple read of the FRA letter clearly shows the program requirements and the monitoring pre-Date the Trump administration and were part of the orginal agreement of California recieving the money in the first place.
BTW, CSX Gateway project falls under similar terms via the TIGER grant process, if CSX does not complete the Gateway project it has to pay back the TIGER grants. CSX competed against other railroads for the TIGER grant money for this project and was awarded the money because it's project return was the highest OR provided the most benefit to the country compared to the other applications.
Allegedly this is how the FRA is going to hand out money from now on.
Timeline
February 12: Gov Newsom announces dealys in CA HSR.
February 15: Gov. Newsom announces CA will sue to block Trump's so-called national emergency executive order.
February 19: FRA sends Notice of Intent to Terminate Cooperative Agreement to Gov. Newsom.
Mere coincidence? You can be the judge.
So you claim it is just a coincidence that Newsom screwed up and Trump pounced?
And what highspeed rail projects are Illinois and Michigan building?
If the Fed purpose was to get a highspeed line up and running outside the Northeast Corridor, they should have provided adequate support, both financial and engineering.
As far as "partisan" is concerned, it is consistently republicans who oppose passenger rail projects. Partly because as policy they favor highways, partly because republicans are mostly rural, where trains do little good. I should say "neglected rural," because neither party is really paying them much attention-- so they understandably detest Washington and government. At the moment, it is the republicans who are benifiting from that neglect.
J. Bishop He could have quietly refocused over time to stress the Central Valley completion.
Your thinking more like a partisan than an objective observer....
If you read the link to the letter overmod posted you would see that is not the case nor is it necessary to conflate this with another political figure like Trump.
FRA has been monitoring all three programs they gave money too (California, Illinois and Michigan). FRA would have issued a breach of agreement letter regardless of if California announced publicly or not based on the deadlines set. What forced the FRA to act sooner versus later was not Trump (and his loud verbal blusters) but concern over the projects in Illinois and Michigan if they let California waffle, which would drop the ball next. The total investment is a lot more than a few Billion invested in California and the whole purpose of this program was to get a HSR or near HSR system up and running outside the NE Corridor. If all three projects fail to reach implementation you can kiss goodbye to Congress ever sending money to an HSR project outside the NE Corridor ever again.
Newsom made a very bad mistake. He could have quietly refocused over time to stress the Central Valley completion. But no. He had to do something dramatic in his State of the State and predictably, Trump and his alies pounced.
Since Newsom says that the evironmental work on the links to SF and LA will continue and the state will continue to seek funding for those links, and bookend work will continue, it is not clear, at least to me, what has actually changed in terms of what the state will actually be doing. Pehaps no more soil samples where the links are planned?
I think Newsome wants to be able to say at the next election that he had completed, or almost, the Central Valley project that he promised at the beginning of his term. Idea itself was not politically dumb. But they way he did it was.
Actual URL to the content appears to be
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2019/02/20-fra-set-to-cancel-929-million-california-high-speed-rail-grant-wants-billions-repaid
The link to the actual FRA letter is included at the bottom. It is a direct link to a PDF download. Here is the link itself for convenience:
http://trn.trains.com/~/media/files/pdf/2019/fralettercahsrtermination21919.pdf
That was the small print in accepting the grant that Ray LaHood wrote in there. The grant would become a loan repayable to the Federal Government if the use of the funds did not produce a working HSR system as planned by the target dates. I believe Illinois is subject to payback as well but might currently be under a waiver due to PTC and the fact that Illinois completed all the infrastructure......not sure though.
It is not California's money any longer and the FRA is within it's rights to ask for the money back based on the condition of accepting the money that California agreed to in 2009. So if it goes to court, California will lose.
WASHINGTON – Federal Railroad Administration Administrator Ron Batory has sent a letter to the California High Speed Rail Authority announcing that the federal agency intends to terminate its existing grant agreement and “de-obligate"...
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2019/02/20-fra-cancels-929-million-california-high-speed-rail-grant-wants-billions-repaid
Brian Schmidt, Editor, Classic Trains magazine
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