CSSHEGEWISCH Prior to NICTD, South Shore, true to its interurban heritage, used to have lots of flagstops. Some stops, such as Calumet Harbor, were rarely used while others were used regularly. I do not recall seeing any specific devices for boarding passengers to signal the train to stop.
Prior to NICTD, South Shore, true to its interurban heritage, used to have lots of flagstops. Some stops, such as Calumet Harbor, were rarely used while others were used regularly. I do not recall seeing any specific devices for boarding passengers to signal the train to stop.
The Fox River Trolley Museum has a rope controlled semaphore from the Chicago, Aurora & Elgin Railway that came from one of its stations. Passengers wanting to board a train would pull the rope down and hook it to put the semaphore to the stop position. Conductor would then release it, after the passenger boarded. Though looking at the old timetables, I find no reference to flag stops.
In pre-SEPTA days, the 69th street- Norristown line had passenger-operated signals at flag-stops. Does it now?
CMStPnP timz Some of the Barriger pics show small semaphores at the end of the station platform that presumably were set horizontal by flag passengers planning to board. I'm not a railroad employee but I would have to guess that having paying passengers operate a signalling system on any Class I railroad would be a major infraction of company rules. Just a wild hunch I have. While I have no doubt those signaling semaphores were used......far more likely a railroad employee set and unset the signal..........than a passenger.
timz
Some of the Barriger pics show small semaphores at the end of the station platform that presumably were set horizontal by flag passengers planning to board.
I'm not a railroad employee but I would have to guess that having paying passengers operate a signalling system on any Class I railroad would be a major infraction of company rules. Just a wild hunch I have. While I have no doubt those signaling semaphores were used......far more likely a railroad employee set and unset the signal..........than a passenger.
I'e seen references to semaphore's used by passengers at a flag stop, suspect the main thing is that the semaphore's only function is to indicate a waiting passenger. One reference suggested that the semaphore be weighted to default at "no passenger" and requiring the passenger to hold the semaphore in stop position.
BaltACDon my carrier the semaphores were used to signify that Train Orders were to be delivered at that location
That could be their use on the Milwaukee as well. I was guessing they were used for flag stops based on how high they were and location of controls. They were dark when I was a kid and I never saw them lit.
At unstaffed locations I recall a recall a green and white flag on a short staff, perhaps a little bigger than the traditional "class" flags (Extra, or Section following). It would be inside a shelter, or on the outside of a convenient wall. A sheet was posted instructing the intending passenger how to use it, namely when the train came into sight, stand on the platform and wave it. A train approaching a flag stop would do so slowly enough to able to stop if needed. They can stop a lot better than freight trains. Mostly the sight distance was long enough that only minimal slowing was required if there was nobody to stop for.
I assume the conductor would ensure the flag was placed back in its holder, but probably most of the passengers would be sufficiently familiar with the procedure to have already done so as the train was coming to a stop. And of course the conductor would use the communicating cord or radio if he had a passenger for that stop.
Perhaps some roads did have small semaphores which could be set by passengers, but the only ones I saw were the large ones which were used to indicate that an approaching train had orders waiting for the crews.
Johnny
CMStPnP timz Some of the Barriger pics show small semaphores at the end of the station platform that presumably were set horizontal by flag passengers planning to board. I'm not a railroad employee but I would have to guess that having paying passengers operate a signalling system on any Class I railroad would be a major infraction of company rules. Just a wild hunch I have. While I have no doubt those signaling semaphores were used......far more likely a railroad employee set and unset the signal..........than a passenger. The controls for the Semaphore flag stop signals at the Brookfield Depot on the Milwaukee Road were inside the depot behind the ticket counter, well out of reach of any paying passenger. Remember, many depots were still manned in part if flagstops they were just not manned full time and not by someone from the passenger department. Could even be a caretaker arrangement like what Amtrak uses for unmanned depots.
timz Some of the Barriger pics show small semaphores at the end of the station platform that presumably were set horizontal by flag passengers planning to board.
The controls for the Semaphore flag stop signals at the Brookfield Depot on the Milwaukee Road were inside the depot behind the ticket counter, well out of reach of any paying passenger.
Remember, many depots were still manned in part if flagstops they were just not manned full time and not by someone from the passenger department. Could even be a caretaker arrangement like what Amtrak uses for unmanned depots.
The 'depot' locations that I worked did have semaphores, on my carrier the semaphores were used to signify that Train Orders were to be delivered at that location - I believe, they were integrated into the signal system such that the signals approaching the depot would display 'Approach' signal indication; at the depot itself a 'train order board' was displayed (yellow for orders that could be picked up on the fly and red for orders the train had to stop to recieve).
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
timzSome of the Barriger pics show small semaphores at the end of the station platform that presumably were set horizontal by flag passengers planning to board.
I know in the case of the Milwaukee Road some of the flag stops were manned fairly regularly by freight department folks who would just set a semaphore signal and the mast was twice as tall as a normal semaphore so it could be seen farther. The signal was reset by the conductor on the train that did the pickup (see Gil Reids painting of the Brookfield Depot with the Cannonball pausing there). Officially the Brookfield Depot was unmanned but it had a railroad employee there fairly regularly even after Amtrak to handle the local freight traffic and setouts / pickups......the clerical / paperwork part of the operation, I believe. Brookfield was also a base for section hands / maintenence and MoW equipment was stored in the depot as well as the section car shed nearby.
There was a flagstop semaphore there a long time ago when I was a kid at the Brookfield Depot, you could see the signal from least a half mile away in good weather when it was not lit because the signal mast was like 30-40 feet tall. Additionally they used telegraph to communicate up an down the line to the stations manned by passenger agents and could pass the word that way to the train crew approaching.
Telegraph is how the Milwaukee kept it's clocks at each depot in sync along the Chicago to Twin Cities mainline. The line had an active telegraph until approx 1985.
Anyways, know from my very early railfan days of the 1970's that the Brookfield depot had a fairly regular freight agent that would do clerical work there as it was a junction to Waukesha and I believe he handled or checked which cars would head down the branch and double checked the correct cars were setout but West and East bound freights. He also maintained the section cars and other tools stored there. He was there almost daily but not for the whole day in the 1970's just part time on Mon-Fri. I still remember the little black Chevy Nova with Milwaukee Road logo on the side. Prior to 1975 he spotted me train watching and let me in to see the Depot waiting room (it was still preserved back then like it was frozen in time)......and that was really cool. Prior to the Milwaukee bankruptcy the employees were very friendly to anyone in the immediate area, especially kids........they would walk up and start chatting. Oops off on a tangent I go.
Back in the 1970's the Waukesha branch could take 50-60 car setouts from the mainline freights and they sometimes kept an old GP9 or MP15AC parked there as well.
Deggesty Some flag stops were limited to passengers going to or from certain places (limted to passengers going at least so many miles?).
Some flag stops were limited to passengers going to or from certain places (limted to passengers going at least so many miles?).
Ah, Conditional Stops. For example; No. 3, the westbound Golden State in the October 1952 public timetable would stop at Columbus Jct, Eldon, and Centerville Iowa to receive pay passengers for El Paso and beyond. Eastbound No. 4 only stopped at those places to discharge pay passengers from El Paso or beyond.
Jeff
Some of the Barriger pics show small semaphores at the end of the station platform that presumably were set horizontal by flag passengers planning to board. But no such thing at 99+% of all flag stops, and lots of them must have depended on the engineer being alert.
Santa Fe -- Steel Rails Through California has a pic of a lady waving a white flag (supplied by SFe) at an approaching San Diegan.
If the station was not open at the time that a passenger wished to board at a flag stop, the passenger would stand where the engineer or fireman could see him or her, and wave a handkerchief when the engine came into view. If the station was open, a railroad employee would wave a flag which was, as I recall, green and white.
rjemery Yes, I refer to the pre-Amtrak era, and in particular to the 1950s or earlier if one must have a time reference. My question remains. What would the engineer be looking for in terms of a signal of a passenger waiting to board at a flag stop? What must the waiting passenger do to ensure the train will stop for him or her and just not pass by at speed?
Yes, I refer to the pre-Amtrak era, and in particular to the 1950s or earlier if one must have a time reference. My question remains. What would the engineer be looking for in terms of a signal of a passenger waiting to board at a flag stop? What must the waiting passenger do to ensure the train will stop for him or her and just not pass by at speed?
This was pre via.
RJ Emery near Santa Fe, NM
Tthe question seemed to concern Amtrak trains, not trains that are no longer operated.
When many trains were operated, with flag stops indicated in the public timetables, the employee timetables also showed the flag stops, and engineers may well have been prepared to make such stops.
Not so. On the AT&SF, both the Grand Canyon (originating in LA or Chicago) and the El Pasoan did not require advance reservations and both made frequent flag stops. I've ridden both.
On the railroad I worked for if there was an 'f' and a time next to the station in the timetable we would approach that station prepared to stop.
All travel on the long distance trains is by reservation; the conductors know when someone will be waiting for the train.
Many long distance passenger trains, especially in the West, made flag stops along their routes. How were these effected?
Assume a train was traveling about 60+ mph. The flag stop had to be visible sufficiently in the distance for the engineer to bring the train to a normal stop. I assume also there was no station or agent at the flag stop who could radio the approaching train, as some of these stops were very late at night or in the wee hours of the morning.
If a passenger was waiting at the flag stop, how did he or she safely signal the train to make the stop?
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