BaltACDIf it wasn't for different views of 'generally accepted accounting practices' we would not have billion dollar law suits between companies on various aspects of how they account for their business actions. By the same token if 'the law' was black and white there would be far fewer law suits as well as much shorter legal actions. You can't read any news paper or news web site (including Fox News) that doesn't have some referrence to a legal action over the accounting for money being a critical element in the suit. There are always two or more sides to the question. I will never argue the details of any accounting method (I'll leave that to my daughter who is a licensed CPA in MD & FL). What I will argue is that in any large undertaking there are more than one way to apply 'generally accepted accounting principles' and the different ways will result in different results, and each of those ways will be 'legal'.
By the same token if 'the law' was black and white there would be far fewer law suits as well as much shorter legal actions.
You can't read any news paper or news web site (including Fox News) that doesn't have some referrence to a legal action over the accounting for money being a critical element in the suit. There are always two or more sides to the question.
I will never argue the details of any accounting method (I'll leave that to my daughter who is a licensed CPA in MD & FL). What I will argue is that in any large undertaking there are more than one way to apply 'generally accepted accounting principles' and the different ways will result in different results, and each of those ways will be 'legal'.
The percentage of accounting transactions that find their way into a lawsuit is infinitesimal. But the few that do have a way of grabbing headlines.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
PJS1 BaltACD When it comes to such financial reports - I'll call your accountant and raise you with two of my own, so the bet now stands at 3 accountants. An exercise in liars poker. I respect your views on railroad dispatching for CSX or one of its predecessors. You should stick to what you know. Clearly, you are out of your depth when it comes to accounting and finance. I would never comment on the appropriateness of dispatching. I never worked at it; I don't know anything about it other than what I have read here or elsewhere.
BaltACD When it comes to such financial reports - I'll call your accountant and raise you with two of my own, so the bet now stands at 3 accountants. An exercise in liars poker.
An exercise in liars poker.
I respect your views on railroad dispatching for CSX or one of its predecessors.
You should stick to what you know. Clearly, you are out of your depth when it comes to accounting and finance.
If it wasn't for different views of 'generally accepted accounting practices' we would not have billion dollar law suits between companies on various aspects of how they account for their business actions.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Overmod For those who want to cut directly to the chase: https://www.railpassengers.org/site/assets/files/7353/amtraks_route_accounting_-_fatally_flawed.pdf Chilson has a Stanford MBA in marketing. It does occur to me that a review of this 'paper' -- by an actual trained accountant or consultant, ahem, ahem -- would be a logical first step here. (Rather than hashing over credentials or other arguments from authority, which is little better than what the RPA seems to be trying to do with its advocacy.) You might start with a recapitulation of what's important, and why Amtrak uses the accounting conventions it does.
For those who want to cut directly to the chase:
https://www.railpassengers.org/site/assets/files/7353/amtraks_route_accounting_-_fatally_flawed.pdf
Chilson has a Stanford MBA in marketing.
It does occur to me that a review of this 'paper' -- by an actual trained accountant or consultant, ahem, ahem -- would be a logical first step here. (Rather than hashing over credentials or other arguments from authority, which is little better than what the RPA seems to be trying to do with its advocacy.) You might start with a recapitulation of what's important, and why Amtrak uses the accounting conventions it does.
You missed a key point! Without access to Amtrak's books, an outsider does not know what accounting policies, procedures and practices Amtrak uses.
I am a Texas CPA. The Texas Society of Certified Public Accountants, which has the authority of law, would come down hard on me if I opined on the adequacy of a company's accounting policies, procedures, and practices without having access to its books and key accounting personnel.
I respect your views on railroad dispatching, which is where I assume you spent most of your career.
Overmod Chilson has a Stanford MBA in marketing.
Well, there is no doubt about it. A marketing guy is just the person to write a report on Amtrak's accounting policies, procedures, and practices.
What experience has he had directly with Amtrak's accounting policies, procedures, and practices? Even more basic, what hands-on experience has he had in accounting, finance, audit, IT or anything that would qualify him to opine on Amtrak's accounting practices?
The most critical question, however, is did he have access to Amtrak's books, or is he relying on secondary documents? No reputable auditor or consultant, i.e. the big four accounting firms, would rely on secondary documentation to opine on a company's accounting policies, procedures and practices. None!
The major flaw in the report is obvious. It was written by a person who is carrying the flag for the advocacy group that he represents. No one who has worked in a serious auditing or consulting organization would pay much attention to it.
Again, if the Rail Passenger Association wants an independent, objective assessment of Amtrak's accounting policies, procedures, and practices, which it probably doesn't, it should hire an independent auditor that does not have a dog in the hunt to perform the audit and/or assessment.
OvermodFor those who want to cut directly to the chase: https://www.railpassengers.org/site/assets/files/7353/amtraks_route_accounting_-_fatally_flawed.pdf Chilson has a Stanford MBA in marketing. It does occur to me that a review of this 'paper' -- by an actual trained accountant or consultant, ahem, ahem -- would be a logical first step here. (Rather than hashing over credentials or other arguments from authority, which is little better than what the RPA seems to be trying to do with its advocacy.) You might start with a recapitulation of what's important, and why Amtrak uses the accounting conventions it does.
When it comes to such financial reports - I'll call your accountant and raise you with two of my own, so the bet now stands at 3 accountants.
Railvt The Rail Passengers Association (NARP) posted this blistering critique of how Amtrak manipulates its accounting procedures to downgrade the performance of its National Network trains and over-state the performance of the Northeast Corridor. Most of the work on this was done by former RPA/NARP Chairman George Chilson, who earns a huge note of gratitude for such an in-depth piece.
The Rail Passengers Association (NARP) posted this blistering critique of how Amtrak manipulates its accounting procedures to downgrade the performance of its National Network trains and over-state the performance of the Northeast Corridor.
Most of the work on this was done by former RPA/NARP Chairman George Chilson, who earns a huge note of gratitude for such an in-depth piece.
Let's see! The Rail Passenger Association has put together an unbiased critique of Amtrak's accounting policies, procedures and practices! Which might be believable if it did not have a big dog in the hunt!
What are Chilson's qualifications? Is he an accountant? Does he have a CPA? How long did he work in accounting? And for whom, i.e. private industry, government, education, etc.? Has he worked as an auditor or managed independent auditors? Does he have a degree in finance, IT, etc.
More importantly, did Amtrak open its books to Chilson? If they didn't, then he had to rely on secondary documentation as opposed to primary documentation, which no professional auditor or consultant would do.
If the Rail Passenger Association, or anyone for that matter, wants an independent, objective assessment of Amtrak's accounting policies, procedures, and practices, they should engage a world class, independent accounting firm, e.g. PWC, KPMG, Deloitte, etc., or consulting firm, e.g. Mckinsey & Company, Booze Allen & Hamilton, etc. to perform it. They don't have a dog in the hunt; they are more likely to produce an independent, objective assessment.
The first step out of the box would be a request for Amtrak to open its books to the auditors or consultants and make the company's CFO, Chief Accountant, and President available for interviews. The auditors would also want to interview the Chair of the Board Audit Committee. If Amtrak refused to do so, a world class firm would refuse the assignment.
The Rail Passengers Association (NARP) posted this blistering critique of how Amtrak manipulates its accounting procedures to downgrade the performance of its National Network trains and over-state the performance of the Northeast Corridor. This is a major read and, truthfully, if you can spare the paper is probably best printed out before going into it, but this is very significant. Most of the work on this was done by former RPA/NARP Chairman George Chilson, who earns a huge note of gratitude for such an in-depth piece.
https://www.railpassengers.org/happening-now/news/releases/amtraks-route-accounting-fatally-flawed-misleading-wrong/
Carl Fowler
RPA Vice Chair
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