Why Start A Train In New York?

[Deggesty]

As much as some of the traveling public would rejoice in seeing twice-daily service in varous places, I agree with Balt.

I, for one, would like to see such service on the former SAL line between  Richmond and Savannah (it might make it easier on my public school friend who would prefer driving 28 miles to Camden instead of driving 50 miles to Charlotte  to pick me up--there is no bus service through my home town) but I see no possibility of such.

Also, I would not mind an evening eastbound departure instead of the existing 3:30 in the morning departure from where I live.

[BaltACD]

My personal feelings are that Amtrak should operate trains on both sides of the clock on the LD routes.  What would be middle of the night for one train would be middle of the day for the other.

I also understand reality.  Congress will never fund Amtrak to obtain the additional equipment necessary or hire and train the additional personnel required to operate and service the trains.

As long as Congress expects Amtrak to 'turn a profit'; something we know hasn't happened in the 47+ years of Amtrak's existance, Amtrak is not in a position to really try to provide service on their LD routes.  On top of all that, Amtrak would have to negotiate additional train slots on the Class 1 carriers who run the trains of Amtrak's LD network.

[scorliss93]

Thanks all, I really appreciate the responses. Generally speaking, when I travel long distance I'm going from PVD to Durham so the connecting train with the Carolinian is the overnight Northeast Regional, which is what got me thinking about this (I wish they had sleeper cars on that train, a la Twilight Shoreliner but oh well). 

Honestly, Washington Union Station, Penn Station and Boston South Station are both really quite amazing for handling as much traffic as they do with the amount of tracks.

[scorliss93]

Thank you all for the answers. I will say, when I ride long distance I tend to go from PVD to Durham taking the overnight Northeast Regional into Washington. I do wish they had sleepers on that train again, a la the Twilight Shoreliner.

I'm sure I will have more questions for future threads. 

[blue streak 1]

Due to the continual slide in riders to / from WASH until about 1990 PRR, PC, CR & Maybe Amtrak (?) closed and sold off some track storage facilities.  Now with both MARC and VRE services coming on line or expanding more mid day storage is needed.  Amtrak and MARC now are carryig more train cars into WASH than PRR did.

To solve some storage for VRE it is going to build its own storage yard along New York avenue for 10(?) car + loco train sets.

https://www.vre.org/development/maintenance-storage-facilities/midday-storage-facility/ 

Here is VRE notice of how tight parking is that they cannot park all train now in DC.

https://www.vre.org/development/maintenance-storage-facilities/lenfant-north-and-south-storage-track/ 

[BaltACD]

D.Carleton

Amtrak “claims” they do not have the service capacity in Washington for more long distance trains. That was the excuse we got when it was proposed to use Superliners on a Washington-Florida winter only train when western traffic lightened up.

Storage space is tight on WUT property - MARC Trains, VRE Trains, Amtrak Trains and don't forge DC Metro is using space that was formerly part of the coach yards for their purposes.  There has been an on going battle betwee VRE & Amtrak as VRE has wanted to add service for years but Amtrak won't let an additional train layover between the morning and afternoon periods.

[D.Carleton]

Amtrak “claims” they do not have the service capacity in Washington for more long distance trains. That was the excuse we got when it was proposed to use Superliners on a Washington-Florida winter only train when western traffic lightened up.

[Deggesty]

Also, historically, several trains to/from the South went through Washington at times when the passengers were asleep. Would you like to be waked at one or four in the morning and told to change trains then?

Granted, no through train is now scheduled through Washington at such a time (though the NB SIlver Meteor is shceduled to arrive at an early breakfast time--I came north on it once, and went on to Baltimore and then back to Washington so that I could eat a leisurely breakfast).

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

A change of motive power or other switching has been accomplished for years at various locations with minimal disturbance to passengers.  I've managed to sleep through the Spokane passenger stop while the "Empire Builder" was divided into Seattle and Portland sections.

[PJS1]

Enzoamps

Well greater New York City is an area of 20 million people, you customer base.  Greater Washington is more like 6 million.  

Also, between New York City and Washington the Silver Meteor, Silver Star, and Palmetto stop at Newark, Trenton, Philadelphia, Wilmington and Baltimore, all of which have sizeable populations.  The same goes for the Crescent and Cardinal, although the New York to Washington leg of the Cardinal has been temporarily suspended due to track work. 

I suspect it may also be for logistical reasons.  I believe the cleaning and servicing of these trains is done as Sunnyside Yard, where passenger equipment has been serviced for as long as I can remember.  

[Enzoamps]

Well greater New York City is an area of 20 million people, you customer base.  Greater Washington is more like 6 million.  SO NYC has three times the potential customers.

I board both single level NEC cars in Washington and bi-level cars heading across the midwest.  Both kinds load me right off the platform.  It doesn't affect my travel decisions.

If I want to go from NYC to Florida, and I have a sleeper, do I really want to use an NEC train to get to Washington adn THEN schlep mu bags onto the sleeping car?  I'd much prefer to get settled in at the begining of my rtip and spend time in the lounge car or dining car.  Or just lounging in my room.

NYC is a transportation hub of the largest order.   Trains coming in from all directions wind up there, allowing connections to your southern train.  Washington has far less of that.

[scorliss93]

So this is probably a silly question, but I am genuinely curious about this (among other topics). Why does Amtrak start their trains that go south of Washington DC in New York City (ie. Carolinian, Palmetto, Silver Star, etc)? Theoretically, wouldn't it make more sense to take the departure time of those trains and run them as Northeast Regionals? Further, starting southern routes in Washington DC would mean not having to change locomotives, something which is not a pleasent experience at nighttime when you have many people alighting in Washington. 

Also, by starting trains there you could run equipment that had lower level boarding (such as the Superliners). Granted, there probably isn't enough equipment to run Superliners on the east coast, but from what I understand the problem with those is more the NYC tunnels, not the DC tunnels. 

Granted, maybe some people would not want to switch trains in DC, so they would just not want to take Amtrak as a result if they were forced to. However, at that point why not start the Palmetto or the Silver Meteor in Boston to get all of those customers who don't want to switch trains?

I'm sure there is a logical reason for starting long distance trains in NYC, but it just doesn't make sense to me. 

 

PS. The same can be said for trains going up north of NYC (like the Vermonter).