DOUG D OHLEMEIERDon't kid yourself. Amtrak has no intention of adding Oklahoma service, or Front Range service. Deceptive Dick Anderson knows very well that, under the law, states (not Amtrak) are required to support corridor routes under 750 miles. Another bait and switch by Propeller Head.
Except that Amtrak is also working with KS & OK currently to bring that connection to Newton or eventually KC about. The idea was Boardmans not Anderson's. So far it is still being discussed.
Don't kid yourself. Amtrak has no intention of adding Oklahoma service, or Front Range service.Deceptive Dick Anderson knows very well that, under the law, states (not Amtrak) are required to support corridor routes under 750 miles.
Another bait and switch by Propeller Head.
CMStPnP DOUG D OHLEMEIER The route is successful. The overnight stops aren't "nonsense." I think he was referring to the OKC connection in Newton which brings me to potentially option #2. Cancel the SW Chief West of Newton and run it on the former Lone Star route, South of Newton to Fort Worth (via OKC). Terminate in Fort Worth. You could kill the Heartland Flyer as well if you timed the run correctly and pickup the state subsidies from TX and OK, it would improve the financials of the train and make OK happier to have a KC & Chicago connection at last. Plus you can still use the connection to the Sunset Limited via the Texas Eagle to go to LA via a transfer in Fort Worth in daylight.
DOUG D OHLEMEIER The route is successful. The overnight stops aren't "nonsense."
I think he was referring to the OKC connection in Newton which brings me to potentially option #2. Cancel the SW Chief West of Newton and run it on the former Lone Star route, South of Newton to Fort Worth (via OKC). Terminate in Fort Worth. You could kill the Heartland Flyer as well if you timed the run correctly and pickup the state subsidies from TX and OK, it would improve the financials of the train and make OK happier to have a KC & Chicago connection at last. Plus you can still use the connection to the Sunset Limited via the Texas Eagle to go to LA via a transfer in Fort Worth in daylight.
DOUG D OHLEMEIERThe route is successful. The overnight stops aren't "nonsense."
You could essentially kill the unprofitable part of the SW Chief and the Heartland Flyer with just one reroute, which only has a small portion without passenger service currently. I don't see the logic in three LD trains to California that span the sparsely populated West. I would prefer the Southwest Limited be cancelled over the Chief. Running two Chicago to LA trains over two seperate routes I think is a little wasteful.
PNWRMNMThat is becuase they have to pay the full cost of maintaining such line segments. In plain language, "If we cant get a free ride, we aint gona' run no stinking train."
Though I think one could make an argument that the line to Phoenix and the City of Phoenix stop was abandoned for a similar reason by a previous Amtrak management instead of preserving it. Also seemed to be some concern over safety of a line with only one passenger train running on it......in the Phoenix case.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
The route is successful. The overnight stops aren't "nonsense."
For an LD train, which travels across the country, some cities will have overnight service. The solution is to institute a 2nd frequency, approximately 12 hours apart from the main train.
May people ride the train, which is one of Amtrak's most successful long-distance or short-distance trains.
Some facts about the Southwest Chief:
* At 63 percent, the train's load factor (percent of seats filled) is higher than the Northeast Corridor's 57 percent and the state corridors' 40 percent;
* The train is 2nd in seat miles and passenger miles among all 15 Amtrak long-distance trains;
* It carries more passenger miles (length of trip) than any other Amtrak short-distance train outside of the Northeast Corridor and California's Pacific Surfliner trains; and
* The train is 7th in terms of ridership and 4th in ticket revenue (among the long-distance routes).
SFbrkmn I stopped in @ the Amtrak office in Newton and had a talk w/Michelle concerning possible service changes. Agency offices in Ft. Madison, Topeka, Garden City, La Junta and Lamy have already closed or will soon be closing. This leaves Newton as the only open agency between Kan City and Abluquerque. The only thing keeping Newton open is the bus connection to/from Oklcit. I am approaching this w/an open mind. As Train Wire reported, a possible reformat could find a daytime/evening Chief from either LaJunt or Dodge to Chicago. I would take that over the nonsense overnight dead of night train stops in Newton.
I stopped in @ the Amtrak office in Newton and had a talk w/Michelle concerning possible service changes. Agency offices in Ft. Madison, Topeka, Garden City, La Junta and Lamy have already closed or will soon be closing. This leaves Newton as the only open agency between Kan City and Abluquerque. The only thing keeping Newton open is the bus connection to/from Oklcit. I am approaching this w/an open mind. As Train Wire reported, a possible reformat could find a daytime/evening Chief from either LaJunt or Dodge to Chicago. I would take that over the nonsense overnight dead of night train stops in Newton.
MidlandMike The fact that BNSF was willing to contribute tells me that they were not willing to let Raton go yet, or maybe they just wanted to keep the SWC off the southern Transcon.
The fact that BNSF was willing to contribute tells me that they were not willing to let Raton go yet, or maybe they just wanted to keep the SWC off the southern Transcon.
Or they were willing to pay blackmail money to not be seen locally as the big bad railroad that killed the poor little passenger train.
For BNSF, a bit of both. I approve of this ammendment. I think it is just plain nuts to think a permanent bus bridge can replace the Raton Pass route, might as well just drop the train competely. I used the train(s?) six or seven times, (Super Chief, El Capitan, Southwestern Chief) before and after 1 May 1971, but would certainly have picked a different route if there had been a bus bridge in the middle. (Most frequent routing used the D&RGW one or anoher way each side, and the only "bus bridge"encountered was the occasional van or taxi or clients car to or from Ogden, when real rail service was not availablel Salt Lake - Ogden and the SP used west of Ogden.)
Amtrak would only have had to pay a small part of of it. Other federal grants, the states, and even BNSF were willing to pay its upkeep. The fact that BNSF was willing to contribute tells me that they were not willing to let Raton go yet, or maybe they just wanted to keep the SWC off the southern Transcon.
This makes little sense. The direct CHI-DEN route is popular. Going through KS & southern CO, which already has a train, isn't necessary and would eliminate service to IA and NE, which also, like other areas, deserve passenger service.
Never wise to cannibalize one successful service for another.
CMStPnP oltmannd Gee, we've never seen THAT before! Just gotta horse-trade at the state level... Trade Kansas in the middle of the night for a second KC - Chicago train and throw in Thruway bus connections across the gap meeting both trains. Everyone wins! Might need a barrel of cash for BNSF, too... Wouldn't also make sense since Amtrak and the states are paying for this isolated line with limited traffic to possibly reroute the California Zephyr to run Chicago to KC first then over the state maintained line............then up the joint line to Denver? How much additional time would that take vs the potential speed improvement? Colorado would get the Pueblo stop without rerouting the SW Chief. Maybe install ATS on the line after KC all the way to Colorado and increase speed again?
oltmannd Gee, we've never seen THAT before! Just gotta horse-trade at the state level... Trade Kansas in the middle of the night for a second KC - Chicago train and throw in Thruway bus connections across the gap meeting both trains. Everyone wins! Might need a barrel of cash for BNSF, too...
Wouldn't also make sense since Amtrak and the states are paying for this isolated line with limited traffic to possibly reroute the California Zephyr to run Chicago to KC first then over the state maintained line............then up the joint line to Denver? How much additional time would that take vs the potential speed improvement? Colorado would get the Pueblo stop without rerouting the SW Chief.
Maybe install ATS on the line after KC all the way to Colorado and increase speed again?
MidlandMike Amtrak's Anderson said that they did not intend to run trains on a "sole use segment" such as the Raton Rass to Albuquerque area. There might be a bus connection between LaJunta and Albuquerque, to join the truncated trains from CHI and LAX
Amtrak's Anderson said that they did not intend to run trains on a "sole use segment" such as the Raton Rass to Albuquerque area. There might be a bus connection between LaJunta and Albuquerque, to join the truncated trains from CHI and LAX
That is becuase they have to pay the full cost of maintaining such line segments. In plain language, "If we cant get a free ride, we aint gona' run no stinking train."
ATSFGuy So what's the latest on this topic?
So what's the latest on this topic?
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/06/22-amtraks-anderson-reveals-plan-to-truncate-southwest-chief
If you don't have access to NewsWire, Amtrak's Anderson said that they did not intend to run trains on a "sole use segment" such as the Raton Rass to Albuquerque area. There might be a bus connection between LaJunta and Albuquerque, to join the truncated trains from CHI and LAX
daveklepper There was evidence a while back. An observer noting stationary trains waiting for track space.
There was evidence a while back. An observer noting stationary trains waiting for track space.
A couple of people have posted to the congestion on the joint line. Buslist had a lot of information on it, unfortunately he is no longer with us.
An "expensive model collector"
For your information, the states of KS, CO & NM joined the BNSF and Amtrak to fund the needed track improvements.
But Airline Anderson, in his infinite "wisdom," decided to renege on Amtrak's pledge to financially support the route.
Now, this feckless leader is running around like a chicken without its head, acting like Amtrak isn't getting any funding and ordering the ending of this great (and successful) route.
The SW Chief is one of Amtrak's Top 5 long distance trains in revenue and ridership. There's no reason to discontinue it and turn it into a BUS ROUTE.
Time for Airline Anderson to go.
CMStPnP ROBERT WILLISON Isn't amazing that when you threaten some ones station agents, hot meals or passenger train, the politicans come out and finally supports thier service. Amtrak's new CEO will soon find out it was far easier to discontinue flights than it will to kill the Southwest Chief. The Amendment has to pass first. New Mexico and Kansas are two impoverished states that have problems balancing their state budgets. CEO of Amtrak is right to be concerned about the very shaky agreement Boardman setup because neither NM or KS has really a strong constituency for being able to afford or support passenger train service. In NM it's a miracle they got the RoadRunner built but even now there is talk of dismantling it as something they can not afford and if you talk to folks that live in NM, it is pointed to as a money pit. I think if they could bring in Colorado and Missouri to the agreement, it would help alleviate some of the Amtrak CEO's concerns about sustainability. Even then though the agreement is kind of shakey. Best would be a multi-state rail compact created legally between the states that established a more permanent funding and contracting vehicle. Like the Midwest has (which Amtrak is comfortable with).
ROBERT WILLISON Isn't amazing that when you threaten some ones station agents, hot meals or passenger train, the politicans come out and finally supports thier service. Amtrak's new CEO will soon find out it was far easier to discontinue flights than it will to kill the Southwest Chief.
Isn't amazing that when you threaten some ones station agents, hot meals or passenger train, the politicans come out and finally supports thier service.
Amtrak's new CEO will soon find out it was far easier to discontinue flights than it will to kill the Southwest Chief.
The Amendment has to pass first. New Mexico and Kansas are two impoverished states that have problems balancing their state budgets. CEO of Amtrak is right to be concerned about the very shaky agreement Boardman setup because neither NM or KS has really a strong constituency for being able to afford or support passenger train service. In NM it's a miracle they got the RoadRunner built but even now there is talk of dismantling it as something they can not afford and if you talk to folks that live in NM, it is pointed to as a money pit.
I think if they could bring in Colorado and Missouri to the agreement, it would help alleviate some of the Amtrak CEO's concerns about sustainability. Even then though the agreement is kind of shakey. Best would be a multi-state rail compact created legally between the states that established a more permanent funding and contracting vehicle. Like the Midwest has (which Amtrak is comfortable with).
daveklepperThe joint line is congested
Often stated in the Trains Forums but never with any real evidence, that it is really a unsurmountable obstacle.
daveklepperThe joint line is congested,
You'd have to bring a dump truck full of money!
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
The joint line is congested, Stops west of Raton would be missed.
oltmanndGee, we've never seen THAT before! Just gotta horse-trade at the state level... Trade Kansas in the middle of the night for a second KC - Chicago train and throw in Thruway bus connections across the gap meeting both trains. Everyone wins! Might need a barrel of cash for BNSF, too...
ROBERT WILLISONIsn't amazing that when you threaten some ones station agents, hot meals or passenger train, the politicans come out and finally supports thier service. Amtrak's new CEO will soon find out it was far easier to discontinue flights than it will to kill the Southwest Chief.
Gee, we've never seen THAT before!
Just gotta horse-trade at the state level... Trade Kansas in the middle of the night for a second KC - Chicago train and throw in Thruway bus connections across the gap meeting both trains. Everyone wins! Might need a barrel of cash for BNSF, too...
Glad Trains believes talk of railroads can be apolitical.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
WASHINGTON — An amendment offered by two U.S. senators, pressuring Amtrak for its effort to add conditions to its pledge of funding for work on the route of the Southwest Chief, has advanced in the Senate Appropriations Committee. A Friday news...
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/06/11-senators-amendment-pressures-amtrak-to-honor-southwest-chief-pledge
Brian Schmidt, Editor, Classic Trains magazine
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