Read my post more carefully. Note the word 'or' not 'and.' The summary omits key conditions, as Overmod points out.
I don't see alot of distortions ! He just stated thier we're discounts.
Well stated, Overmod ! Summaries are worthless if the correct information is omitted, distorted or misleading.
Overmod JPS1 Amtrak has a lot of discounts. I love it when a man of his experience and skill quotes something like this without either reading the fine print or actually observing the actual discounts being offered. Suggest he do so, whether or not he thinks he's too busy to read such minutiae, and report back on, for example, the actual 'children's discount' if, as the language implies, there are multiple children riding.
I love it when a man of his experience and skill quotes something like this without either reading the fine print or actually observing the actual discounts being offered.
Suggest he do so, whether or not he thinks he's too busy to read such minutiae, and report back on, for example, the actual 'children's discount' if, as the language implies, there are multiple children riding.
The objective was to summarize the different discounts offered by Amtrak.
If one wants the details for each class of discount, they can be found on Amtrak's webpage or by calling the company. In some cases, i.e. group travel, one has to call Amtrak for the details.
JPS1Amtrak has a lot of discounts.
AFAIK, while the senior discount is not available (never was?) on the Auto Train, the NARP discount is and was.
Yes, I know that it's no longer "NARP", but, similarly, that really tall building in Chicago, to me, will always be the Sears Tower, even though it isn't.
Pete
Uncle HowieAt the moment the only sure fire discount from Amtrak is to join the Railroad Passengers Association.
JMK I love trains and train travel, but flying is much cheaper, so I'll fly from now on. Jim K Depends on when you go, I have not flown since 2003 and luckily I have no need to do it, no family to visit etc. So I can take the train wherever I go. I have heard too many complaints lately about airlines and how small the seats are and no leg room. One friend is 6'3" and over 200 lbs, and he says his fat axx never fits in the seats. Have read stories of dragging the man off the plane to make room for a crew person to fly, a dog dying in overhead and child sitting in vomit on a seat that had not been cleaned up at a terminal. When her mom questioned the attendant was told "that's not my job", Maybe not but it was her job to make sure the seats were clean. The mother and child were kicked off the plane for causing commotion and she said she'd never fly again. I flew a lot with TWA and no airline comes even close to the level of service they had. I have never flown Southwest but friends do like them. I'll stick to Amtrak.
I love trains and train travel, but flying is much cheaper, so I'll fly from now on. Jim K
Depends on when you go, I have not flown since 2003 and luckily I have no need to do it, no family to visit etc. So I can take the train wherever I go. I have heard too many complaints lately about airlines and how small the seats are and no leg room. One friend is 6'3" and over 200 lbs, and he says his fat axx never fits in the seats. Have read stories of dragging the man off the plane to make room for a crew person to fly, a dog dying in overhead and child sitting in vomit on a seat that had not been cleaned up at a terminal. When her mom questioned the attendant was told "that's not my job", Maybe not but it was her job to make sure the seats were clean. The mother and child were kicked off the plane for causing commotion and she said she'd never fly again. I flew a lot with TWA and no airline comes even close to the level of service they had. I have never flown Southwest but friends do like them. I'll stick to Amtrak.
I knew they had raised the age for seniors from 62 to 65, but did not affect me as I was already 65. Never belonged to AAA but did hear that one was discontinued too. They did restore the military one after a lot of complaints. I use Amtrak Guest rewards charge card and accumulate points to redeem for free or discounted trips. They also send email surveys that I answer and get points for those also.
charlie hebdoNot really so different than the argument going on in retailing 30-40 years ago: when to offer promotions and price-off sales. It culminated in clearance sales before Christmas and increased sales while greatly reducing sustainable markups. It's a balancing act.
But this is different.
Look at the discussion we had earlier, about 'marginal pricing' relative to actual demand. Would it be 'immoral' for Amtrak to run pricing up (and perhaps make discounts more inapplicable) in timeslots or services that are either near-filled or expected to be? I'd argue 'of course not' even though there's a certain amount of mercenary zeal involved in the idea. (In fact I'd argue that not to do so, which in essence would mean that the early birds who could afford to lock up tickets and space sufficiently in advance would get all the worms, and anyone else has to ride standby or see about the bus, is unfair in a different way.) I see no despair in adjusting to 'supply and demand' so that it just closes ... the flip side of this being standby allocation so that the last seat on as many segments as possible is sold without leaving anyone seatless or bedless as applies.
But this is a form of bait and switch, where you're attracted by discounts and then repeatedly and somewhat viciously nickel-and-dimed down. That's not the same thing as running a Christmas sale with loss leaders, or the kinds of promotion with coupons that 'stack' with discounts at your local grocery store that's savvy about human nature. I'd point out that the perception that a company 'cares about you' has been a principal concern in "marketing and promotion" since well before the age of Elbert Hubbard ... and it is just as important to avoid the perception that a company essentially doesn't give a crap after the customer is in the door, or out of the showroom.
Not really so different than the argument going on in retailing 30-40 years ago: when to offer promotions and price-off sales. It culminated in clearance sales before Christmas and increased sales while greatly reducing sustainable markups. It's a balancing act.
JMK I love trains and train travel, but flying is much cheaper, so I'll fly from now on. Jim K
Depends on when you fly. I always fly first class for leisure over the holidays because a good portion of the time the plane is late and we are just sitting there waiting for a gate to open or some other nonsense (almost as bad as getting stuck behind the Metra Express). I have long legs and coach is unbearable for me longer than an hour flight.
Christmas flight in September was more expensive than RT on the Texas Eagle from Dallas to Chicago. So Amtrak landed the ticket.
DeggestyAmtrak certainly has cracked down on reduced fares.
I have to wonder whether this is associated with the Congressional 'mandate of profitability'.
Every dollar Amtrak 'leaves on the table' by providing an actual discount is a dollar that could have gone to reduce a "deficit". On the other hand, not providing enough juicy-sounding discounts will fail to motivate potential butts to buy tickets. So make your Web-site discounts panel look really, really long, and really good in the language and pictures, and keep 'em rolling in ... if you lose them on the back end, aw shucks!
But there's still the advantage that you can go into a Congressional committee hearing and point out with a straight face that you did everything possible to reduce 'that part' of the Amtrak deficit. And even justify the strategy above as 'incenting' (to use a fine Wisconsin phrase) the maximum number of potential marks while simultaneously diligently arranging for the Government to actually 'lose' as little as possible.
I wonder if there are performance awards for the best combination of offering attractive-sounding things with one hand and ensuring minimum actual 'fulfillment' with the other. I'd also think it's a safe bet that there are people in Amtrak legal who are pretty well compensated for carefully ensuring that there is full and fastidious compliance with the actual 'letter' of the fine print, as with circ/promo at Time Warner on mass mailings and sweepstakes offers.
Makes you yearn a bit for the 'good old days that never were' where incentives to buy would be made with a real smile and a desire to establish ongoing return custom. Much of what Amtrak does at present along these lines appears to be anything but.
CMStPnP 243129 A feeble try at damage control. .........and it's working, score for me! I guess your going to have to figure out how to live with this.
243129 A feeble try at damage control.
.........and it's working, score for me! I guess your going to have to figure out how to live with this.
Forsooth, how will I ever be able to go on!
Thanks, Overmod.
It is certainly involved; I have not read it in full yet (it's close to my lunch time). I doubt that the individual railroad passes were that involved.
Johnny
DeggestyI wonder if Amtrak employees may travel on passes.
Here's a PDF of what the policy was in the late Boardman years:
https://docplayer.net/docview/71/64650247/#file=/storage/71/64650247/64650247.pdf
Note that you will have to follow up 'detailed procedures' in the Reference section (p.44) which, to my knowledge, are not on the greater Internet. Perhaps someone here knows them and can summarize, or knows how to provide relevant sections to read here.
Amtrak certainly has cracked down on reduced fares. This not allowing children under two years to occupy seats seems a bit much for me.
I wonder if Amtrak employees may travel on passes. It used to be that employees could obtain passes for their own and their families, including dependent children, travel on railroads within the areas of their company's travel. Since my father worked for the ACL, my mother could obtain passes within the southern area (east of the Mississippi and south of the Ohio and Potomac Rivers, which did allow travel into Cincinnati and Washington). As a result, when we moved from Florida to South Carolina (where my mother's parents lived), we (mother and six sons) traveled at no cost for transportation.
Also, Amtrak's regulations for minors unaccompanied by a guardian are really restricting. When I was 15 and my youngest brother was almost 17, he and I took a trip that Amtrak would not allow; the two of rode a bus to Charlotte, and boarded there; we changed trains in Atlanta and spent the night between there and Birmingham, where we again changed trains to go to New Orleans--and took a bus to Baton Rouge. Our oldest brother did take us down to New Orleans where we boarded for an overnightg trip to Chattanooga, where we were met by our uncle there; he took us back to the station, where we boarded for Atlanta and spent the night between there and Charlotte, whereupon we took a bus home (though I hitchehiked the last ten miles because I had a dental appointment that morning in the city ten miles from home). I recall one question asked by a conductor--the conductor who boarded in Birmingham the next morning after leaving New Orleans asked, as he took our pass, "You two twins?"
Amtrak would allow the trip I took two years later, when I rode from Baton Rouge to Charlotte, changing in New Orleans, stopping over in Birmingham with my brother there, and hitchhiking home from Charlotte.
CMStPnP charlie hebdo You apparently can't comprehend simple, declarative sentences. I was explaining what Overmod and I were and we're not doing. Your shortcomings are manifest. My shortcomings?, you said earlier your a former shrink and your running around the internet putting other people down constantly or picking fights over minute items that the majority of the readership could care less about. I'd call it malpractice. What happened to you in your past that you feel so inferior to everyone? Maybe your treatment was a little off and you lost all your business or..... Was it life as a flatlander? Hell, I never had to change my screen name and reintroduce myself.
charlie hebdo You apparently can't comprehend simple, declarative sentences. I was explaining what Overmod and I were and we're not doing. Your shortcomings are manifest.
My shortcomings?, you said earlier your a former shrink and your running around the internet putting other people down constantly or picking fights over minute items that the majority of the readership could care less about. I'd call it malpractice. What happened to you in your past that you feel so inferior to everyone? Maybe your treatment was a little off and you lost all your business or..... Was it life as a flatlander? Hell, I never had to change my screen name and reintroduce myself.
I think we all know what you are. You can't handle being called out. Consequently you need to attempt ad hominem attacks. Typical and lame.
My professional career was and remains beyond your inane and ignorant comments.
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say Amtrak has more than one person or department implementing its "discounting" policies, and perhaps different ones involved in promoting them.
There's a variety of available discounts (see the left bar at for example https://www.amtrak.com/deals-discounts/everyday-discounts.html, some of which appear attractive ... take the 50% nominal discount for kids as an example ... but the effect of which is largely ruined by the fine print, restrictions, and problems. Note that the military children's discount looks as if it saves even more, 10% over the 'everyday 50% children's discount, but note that it carefully doesn't mention or repeat that the limitations of the basic children's discount also apply.
The basic option starts by saying "Children 2 through 12 years old ride half-price every day" and "Infants under 2 ride free". Go to "learn more" and almost immediately you see that you will 'make memories and save money when you take the kids on a journey they'll never forget'. What you'll want to forget is that immediately following this, Amtrak notes that the 50% only applies to one child; for additional children "the full adult fare will be charged." And it's figured not on the fare you're paying but on the 'lowest available adult rail fare' -- note how cleverly this avoids asking if 'available' means 'available for actual purchase at the time of "booking".
Then we see that "Infants ride free". Pretty straightforward English there, right? But wait... it's only one child under the age of 2, and they or their carrier can't occupy a seat. Then the semantic fun begins. A 'second' child under 2 can be booked as a "Child" and 'receive the 50% discount (if available) or as an "Adult" if the Children's fare is not available'. (This despite Amtrak saying elsewhere on its own site that 'passengers characterized as "infants" [defined as 'younger than 2 years of age' about two column inches up] do not pay a fare.' But hey! you can book more than eight infants (six or more at adult rate; remember that the children's fare was capped at only one, right?) where you can't do that with either children or adults!
And of course then we go down the rabbit hole of 'when is a child not a child' with the "booking limits per transaction' rigmarole at https://www.amtrak.com/planning-booking/tickets-reservations/booking-limits-for-number-of-passengers-per-transaction.html
Better not send unattended minors, either: they'll be detected and, as in a recent case, summarily put off the train whether ticketed as adults or not. After that their security is your problem, not Amtrak's ... but hey! Amtrak's liability for them has been terminated; it was all your fault for putting them on the train in violation!
By this time you're heartily sick of this, and by the further time you see a few details of other "offers" you begin dreading what you will "learn more" (how I've come to loathe that clever little Jobsism) when you see something on the apparently long laundry list of available offers that might apply to you.
Technically I'm all in favor of helping cut the Amtrak deficit by enhancing revenue collection wherever possible. But much of the point of a discount program (at least the way B-school marketing courses emphasize) is to gain incremental revenue from customers or clients who would otherwise not have patronized you ... and I think most American customers are sensitive to, and don't like, bait and switch.
I strongly suspect that less of the fine print applies to government discounts, although those have to be booked with a special secret government code through special authorized Travel Management Companies and will only appear in secret computer authorization. Be assured, though, that if for any reason there's a lower available special fare you may be billed that... well, that is, the 'system will always return to you the lowest available fare based on the rules your agency has set for refunds and other conditions.' (Do most government employees traveling on agency business actually care what their agency is having to pay?)
243129A feeble try at damage control.
charlie hebdoYou apparently can't comprehend simple, declarative sentences. I was explaining what Overmod and I were and we're not doing. Your shortcomings are manifest.
CMStPnP charlie hebdo You might start by reading others's posts more carefully. In no way were either of us acting as syntactical enforcers. Mostly it was a rather private joke. People who write well do so naturally in all settings, obvious typos excluded. Here we go again, argue, argue, argue. Nothing about trains just what you think is another persons short commings. And we got off the subject of Trains how? Was it me or you attempting to police other peoples posts. You do know that is the role of Forum Moderator........right?
charlie hebdo You might start by reading others's posts more carefully. In no way were either of us acting as syntactical enforcers. Mostly it was a rather private joke. People who write well do so naturally in all settings, obvious typos excluded.
You might start by reading others's posts more carefully. In no way were either of us acting as syntactical enforcers. Mostly it was a rather private joke. People who write well do so naturally in all settings, obvious typos excluded.
Here we go again, argue, argue, argue. Nothing about trains just what you think is another persons short commings. And we got off the subject of Trains how? Was it me or you attempting to police other peoples posts.
You do know that is the role of Forum Moderator........right?
You apparently can't comprehend simple, declarative sentences. I was explaining what Overmod and I were and were not doing. Your shortcomings are manifest.
CMStPnP 243129 Look who is giving grammar lessons. I'll never correct that either because there are two people that it really bothers and there is just too much entertainment value here to abandon the improper usage.
243129 Look who is giving grammar lessons.
I'll never correct that either because there are two people that it really bothers and there is just too much entertainment value here to abandon the improper usage.
A feeble try at damage control.
You sound like Trump saying he's going to build a wall in Colorado and then said he was only kidding. Weak very weak.
charlie hebdoPeople who write well do so naturally in all settings, obvious typos excluded.
Oh thats news to me as I am sure it is to others. I can prove that wrong at any book store. The question is, can you prove it is correct?
Your sloppy writing does not bother me one jot, but is good for a laugh along with your inaccuracies.
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