It's from Wiki, so take this info with a grain of salt, however....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_subsidies#Russia
"In total, Russian Railways receives 112 billion rubles (around US$1.5 billion) annually from the government."
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 It's from Wiki, so take this info with a grain of salt, however.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_subsidies#Russia "In total, Russian Railways receives 112 billion rubles (around US$1.5 billion) annually from the government."
Russia Railway put in Large order about 6 or 7 years for 5,000 New LD Cars, in Sleeping Car, Dining Cars, Lounge Cars, and Coaches. They think Big overseas, when Amtrak can only put in little 130 Viewliner car order.
In regards to both China and Russia, their stats are always suspect because they do not operate as normal Western governments do. In the case of Russia and China both, neither has made the full transition from state run economy and state run firms are heavily subsidized usually with a political appointee at the head who is a friend of a party boss somewhere.
If you follow the footnote from wiki-pedia it attributes the stat to a Russian publication and if you dig deeper within that Russian publication you'll see that Russian railway equipment firms are also subsidized and you will also see in some cases the government of Russia places the order direct with the equipment manufacturer as a intermediary and then turns to the railway company and says......here find a use for this equipment. Interesting reading.
So based on what I read further I would assume the $1.5 Billion figure is on the low side but because of the Economic backwardness of Russia even today, I do not think their Railways require the huge amount of subsidies that Conrailman suggests either since Russia does not really have an Interstate Highway system and their roads East of the Urals are basiscally crap in most places. Which makes Russia a lot more dependent on their railway system......and it probably does not require a whole lot of skill or management to reach profitability in that environment of lack of competition from neighboring highways.
All these Overseas Countrys like Russia and China, and other Countrys have 100% better Train Cars then the USA have. We should have First Class Amtrak, not other Countrys do. They put Amtrak to Shame for 30 plus years.
conrailmanAll these Overseas Countrys like Russia and China, and other Countrys have 100% better Train Cars then the USA have. We should have First Class Amtrak, not other Countrys do. They put Amtrak to Shame for 30 plus years.
Ehhh, with that your sadly mistaken. You need to watch some youtube videos on Russian long distance train travel via Trans Siberia Railway......I think I posted some links not too long ago. Russian rail passenger cars would not pass the U.S. Federal Safety Requirements in this country. Among the violations I believe are coal fired boilers in sleeping cars, pretty sure the windows are not safety glass since a lot of travelers complain of ill fitting duo pane window seals that let drafts of freezing cold air into the car. Linoleum floors vs carpeting as well. I would not rate them better than Amtrak first generation cars. I would venture to guess that materials used in their construction also not as fireproof as in the U.S.
CMStPnP conrailman All these Overseas Countrys like Russia and China, and other Countrys have 100% better Train Cars then the USA have. We should have First Class Amtrak, not other Countrys do. They put Amtrak to Shame for 30 plus years. . Ehhh, with that your sadly mistaken. You need to watch some youtube videos on Russian long distance train travel via Trans Siberia Railway......I think I posted some links not too long ago. Russian rail passenger cars would not pass the U.S. Federal Safety Requirements in this country. Among the violations I believe are coal fired boilers in sleeping cars, pretty sure the windows are not safety glass since a lot of travelers complain of ill fitting duo pane window seals that let drafts of freezing cold air into the car. Linoleum floors vs carpeting as well. I would not rate them better than Amtrak first generation cars. I would venture to guess that materials used in their construction also not as fireproof as in the U.S.
conrailman All these Overseas Countrys like Russia and China, and other Countrys have 100% better Train Cars then the USA have. We should have First Class Amtrak, not other Countrys do. They put Amtrak to Shame for 30 plus years.
.
I believe conrailman was referring to emerging HSR services, such as St. Petersburg to Moscow. As to China, you omit this from your response. Had you ridden some of their current HSRs or even the previous generation of passenger services, you'd see it is far superior to anything here. And they keep building new lines!
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
CSSHEGEWISCH conrailman Maybe the New Guy could order Brand New Superliner car order and more Viewliners too, and New LD Engines order too. You said the same thing when Wick Moorman took office. Amtrak is a lot more than locomotives and cars and those other issues need to be addressed, too.
conrailman Maybe the New Guy could order Brand New Superliner car order and more Viewliners too, and New LD Engines order too.
Maybe the New Guy could order Brand New Superliner car order and more Viewliners too, and New LD Engines order too.
Remember that one of the things Moorman had going was the development of generic equipment specs that could be used immediately for an equipment order.
Also remember that rail passenger equipment has a really long life. There really isn't anything keeping Amfleet and Superliner equipment from running indefinitely. Just needs overhauling every couple of decades or so.
Moorman also talked about the diesel locomotive fleet. He said it wasn't clear whether the best path forward was rebuilding the P42s or buying new. (I would think rebuilding with AC conversion would be more economical.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
GE stop making P42 Engines parts few weeks ago, Its in Railpace Maz July issue. So Amtrak can't get parts then for their P42 engines, they just out of Luck.
conrailman GE stop making P42 Engines parts few weeks ago, Its in Railpace Maz July issue. So Amtrak can't get parts then for their P42 engines, they just out of Luck.
Wonder if this is a power play by GE ? Maybe Amtrak not paying what GE considers enough ?
What kind of parts are we talking about? How credible is the source?
CSSHEGEWISCH What kind of parts are we talking about? How credible is the source?
It was in Railpace Maz issue, that was in that GE stop making all parts for P42 engines. Amtrak is not only railroad runs them engines. Metro- North Railroad and VIA Railroad runs these engines too.
Shouldn't be a problem. Lots of ways to get non-OEM parts for locomotives.
dmikeeNot everyone rides from LA all the way to Seattle. One train per day? Arriving and departing in the middle of the night? This kind of scheduling is designed for failure.
Right. LD trains are a waste. The money could be better spent on shorter corridors, where higher speed service multiple times each day is efficient, popular and competitive. Air travel over longer distances such as Chicago to LA will always be more efficient and popular than a 44 hour train.
Excerpt from Reuters, July 12
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-amtrak-idUSKBN19X2UJ
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Outgoing Amtrak Co-chief Executive Wick Moorman said on Wednesday the money-losing U.S. passenger rail system is considering a less comfortable economy class of seats that could allow it to pack in more passengers.
"We are looking at doing some creative things in terms of creating an economy class," Moorman said at the National Press Club talk in Washington.
He said that seat pitch - the distance between the seatback and the seat in front of it - would be tighter like in airline seats. "There will be some other things that just don't make it quite as comfortable," Moorman said.
Moorman told reporters the railroad is studying the idea and has not made any final decisions.
I am betting they will use the Auto-Max cars as a starting point - enclosed, multiple decks what better staring point could they have for a REAL economy class - might even install a shackle or two for unruly passengers.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
schlimm Right. LD trains are a waste. The money could be better spent on shorter corridors, where higher speed service multiple times each day is efficient, popular and competitive. Air travel over longer distances such as Chicago to LA will always be more efficient and popular than a 44 hour train.
If Amtrak can afford to overhaul the Surfliner F59PHI Fleet, then they can overhaul the P42's and extend thier lifespan another 10-15 years.
GE has to make spare engine parts for the P42's, otherwise where will Antrak go when the fleet becomes unserviceable?
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.