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Florida Trains Baggage Car placement

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Florida Trains Baggage Car placement
Posted by Dmac844 on Friday, June 9, 2017 12:50 PM

A question, hopefully someone will know the answer. I am on the west coast, but I've seen quite a few photos of Amtrak's Florida trains recently with the baggage car placed at the rear of the train. Is there some sort of operational reason that Amtrak does this? Perhaps something to do with Northeast Corridor station platform locations?

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, June 9, 2017 1:43 PM

It's obviously to keep passengers from enjoyng the view to the rear.Smile

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, June 9, 2017 2:11 PM

Observation is that Amtrak doesn't turn the trains - If a train goes South with the baggage car next to the engines, it comes North the baggage car on the rear.

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Posted by Dmac844 on Friday, June 9, 2017 3:26 PM

I had thought not turning the train might be it, but there are balloon tracks at both Sunnyside Yard in NYC and at the Miami Amtrak station. Also I have noted both northbound and southbound trains with baggage on the rear.

But perhaps it really is that simple, no turning of trains.....

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, June 9, 2017 7:34 PM

That's it.  I see them heading through Richmond with baggage cars in front, baggage cars in back, direction doesn't seem to matter, north or south.

Starting in the 1850's baggage cars were placed in the front of the train to provide an extra margin of safety for the passengers in the event of a head-on collision, but that old tradition's gone by the boards now. 

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Friday, June 9, 2017 7:40 PM

The lake shore limited has a baggage car on each end, one for NYC section. The other for the Boston section

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, June 9, 2017 9:59 PM

Some of the Miami trains take a side trip to Tampa, and return to the main line by the same route.  Not sure if they are wyed at Tampa.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, June 10, 2017 7:55 AM

MidlandMike

Some of the Miami trains take a side trip to Tampa, and return to the main line by the same route.  Not sure if they are wyed at Tampa.

 

I expect that the Silver Star is turned in Tampa. To me, that would be simpler than doing all that is necessary to run the engine around. 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, June 10, 2017 2:39 PM

Deggesty
 

I expect that the Silver Star is turned in Tampa. To me, that would be simpler than doing all that is necessary to run the engine around. 

 

Others have mentioned the wye of the Star at Tampa.  Unconfirmed but have read else where that there is a car and loco limit to the length available at the wye.  Heard 14 but that is very much hear say ?

Correction it is 20 look at 91 and 92 shown on this Amtrak link.

https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/132/985/Amtrak-Private-Car-Locomotive-Guide.pdf

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, June 10, 2017 3:10 PM

[quote user="blue streak 1"]

                                                                                                                                                If that's the ACL wye which gives access to Sarasota, it should be good for any number of cars that fit between it and the station (about 3 miles), from the SPV map. That map indicates that the SAL wye is no longer a wye. There was also an ACL wye about two miles or so from the station. The map shows that there used to be a loop at the station.    

 
 
 

 

 

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Posted by matthewsaggie on Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:36 PM

The Carolinian and the Palmetto both run both directions with the baggage on the rear, with business class just ahead of it, cafe ahead of that then the coaches. I have asked the crews why, as I host on the Carolinian in NC and they don't know why it was done. Orders from on high is how one conductor put it. 

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Posted by D.Carleton on Monday, June 12, 2017 1:11 AM

When the sleeping cars were run on the front of the train many passengers, including yours truly, complained that such proximity to the locomotive lessened the travel experience: horn noise, diesel exhaust, etc. (Of course, the sleepers were meant to be on the rear of the train as George Pullman intended.) But when the coaches are coupled next to the baggage car the crews complain that large volume of passengers boarding and detraining from them interfere with the handling of baggage. Ergo, today we have the sleepers on the rear along with the baggage car. True story.

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Friday, June 16, 2017 1:04 PM

Don't baggage cars normally go behind the locomotive?

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, June 16, 2017 1:53 PM

ATSFGuy

Don't baggage cars normally go behind the locomotive?

 

That used to be the normal placement; mail cars, express cars, and baggage cars were known as "head-end cars." On some roads, the head-end brakeman on passenger trains also handled the checked baggage. Some trains had combines--cars that carried both checked baggage and passengers.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Saturday, June 17, 2017 4:11 AM

Deggesty
ATSFGuy

Don't baggage cars normally go behind the locomotive?

Yes, but we have drifted far away from "normal." Perhaps when the new baggage-dorms arrive they can return to the front of the train and leave the sleepers properly on the rear? Probably not.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, June 17, 2017 6:44 AM

Even prior to Amtrak, the "Silver Meteor" had its sleeping cars ahead of the dining car.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, June 17, 2017 8:10 AM

In 1968, when I rode the Southern Belle from New Orleans to Kansas City, the sleeper was ahead of the coaches.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 18, 2017 4:56 AM

D.Carleton

 

 
Deggesty
ATSFGuy

Don't baggage cars normally go behind the locomotive?

 

 

Yes, but we have drifted far away from "normal." Perhaps when the new baggage-dorms arrive they can return to the front of the train and leave the sleepers properly on the rear? Probably not.

 The New Haven had postwar parlor-baggage combines, always at the head end, but of course behind any non-passenger equipment, and always properly pointed.

 

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Posted by NittanyLion on Monday, June 19, 2017 2:07 PM

My understanding was that it had to do with the Viewliners having issues with water lines freezing, so it was easier to put the sleepers on the rear so that they could be cut off with less work.  That also meant putting the baggage car on the rear.  Over time, it just morphed into sticking the bag on the end regardless of the season.

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Posted by oltmannd on Monday, June 19, 2017 2:29 PM

The Crescent runs bag/sleepers/diner-lounge/coaches some days and the other way around on other days with no apparent rhyme or reason.  It'll be one way for weeks, then flop for a while, then back the other way.

They do have to turn the train, either way to get the coach seats facing forward. I doubt anybody turns all the seats...too time consuming.

 

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Posted by JIM COX1 on Monday, June 26, 2017 7:40 PM
A lot of confusion reigns here over the Tampa wyes. When I rode the Silver Star perhaps 3 years ago (just before they yanked the dining car away) we went west past the station, stopped, then backed into the station for several miles. I observed that nothing had seemingly changed since I used to ride the ACL and the SAL when I lived in Tampa in the 1950s and 1960s. I'm surprised more railfans haven't clarified this for you. It's just like old times. When the Star departs Tampa it pulls forward to the main line, then turns east, retracing its tracks (literally) to Lakeland and beyond.
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Posted by chrsjrcj on Monday, June 26, 2017 9:02 PM

BaltACD

Observation is that Amtrak doesn't turn the trains - If a train goes South with the baggage car next to the engines, it comes North the baggage car on the rear.

 

 

Have you observed southbound trains recently? There is a balloon track at Hialeah. Both Silvers are turned there.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, June 26, 2017 9:31 PM

JIM COX1
A lot of confusion reigns here over the Tampa wyes. When I rode the Silver Star perhaps 3 years ago (just before they yanked the dining car away) we went west past the station, stopped, then backed into the station for several miles. I observed that nothing had seemingly changed since I used to ride the ACL and the SAL when I lived in Tampa in the 1950s and 1960s. I'm surprised more railfans haven't clarified this for you. It's just like old times. When the Star departs Tampa it pulls forward to the main line, then turns east, retracing its tracks (literally) to Lakeland and beyond.
 

Are you sure you went past the station before backing in? The maps I have (SPV and Bing) show no wye between Tampa and Port Tampa (the line to Port Tampa goes past the station). There is a wye at GY, (about 36th St. East) which is 1.9 miles east of the station.  The SPV and Bing maps also show a wye near the west end of Uceta Yard; this wye is a little over three miles from the station. However, to use this wye, the train would have to back into the yard, turn, and then back to the station--and the tail, according to the Bing map, is not long enough.

The SCL Tampa Division ETT (4/26/1970) does not show the line from Tampa to Port Tampa, but does list Port Tampa in the special instructions. I surmise that this line (about 10 miles long) is operated at restricted speed.

Also, if you ran past the station as you described the move, and turned, you would have headed back to the station and then backed a short distance into the station.

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Posted by XDRail on Monday, June 26, 2017 10:01 PM

Because long distance trains are pooled at Sunnyside (you never know which set of equipment is going to go on which train), and because the Lakeshore MUST have baggage cars on the ends when combined at Albany, ALL trainsets must end up at Sunnyside with  the baggage cars positioned so that whichever set goes out on the Lakeshore, it will be properly positioned so that a baggage car doesn't end up in the middle of the train. At one time, this was a seasonal, practice, to eliminate switching at Sunnyside in the winter when it was desired NOT to have to break up trainsets.

 

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Posted by lightningstripe on Tuesday, June 27, 2017 12:17 AM

I tend to agree with XDRail. Since trainsets are of a standard makeup and the Florida trains are no longer split, it is easier for the baggage cars to be placed on the rear where they will not be subjected to repositioning when that particular trainset is used on the LSL. As to the Silver Star,do a search on youtube. There are several videos showing the Silver Star going around the wye (east of Tampa station), and backing into Tampa station. 

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, June 27, 2017 9:17 PM

lightningstripe

I tend to agree with XDRail. Since trainsets are of a standard makeup and the Florida trains are no longer split, it is easier for the baggage cars to be placed on the rear where they will not be subjected to repositioning when that particular trainset is used on the LSL. As to the Silver Star,do a search on youtube. There are several videos showing the Silver Star going around the wye (east of Tampa station), and backing into Tampa station. 

 

Incidentally, that wye is where the line from Trilby came in.

Johnny

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