rcdryeWhen the three unit diners were out for shop work, the usual substitute was a string of heavyweight cars (two diners and a lounge). SP must have liked the triples well enough to re-order a few sets in 1949 for the Cascade and Shasta Daylight. There were enough articulated coach pairs that replacements weren't that hard to come up with, but ordinary 48-seat coaches in pairs made a good substitute. After train-offs reduced the need for the diners, SP shops rebuilt one three-unit into a two-unit coach by dropping the kitchen section and using one shared truck. The resulting pair of 68-seat cars lasted a while in service, but wasn't repeated. There were day- and night-train versions of the three-unit cars, separating coach from parlor passengers on the day versions.
Seemed to work just fine for the SP at a time with heavy passenger loads.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
When the three unit diners were out for shop work, the usual substitute was a string of heavyweight cars (two diners and a lounge). SP must have liked the triples well enough to re-order a few sets in 1949 for the Cascade and Shasta Daylight. There were enough articulated coach pairs that replacements weren't that hard to come up with, but ordinary 48-seat coaches in pairs made a good substitute. After train-offs reduced the need for the diners, SP shops rebuilt one three-unit into a two-unit coach by dropping the kitchen section and using one shared truck. The resulting pair of 68-seat cars lasted a while in service, but wasn't repeated.
There were day- and night-train versions of the three-unit cars, separating coach from parlor passengers on the day versions.
Here's a list of the various versions (See Wayner's "Car Names Numbers and Consists")
1940 Daylight ("Morning Daylight") two cars 10250-10251-10251 and 10253-10254-10255 in number order. Train also had 4 pairs of arti coaches.
72 seat dining room
Kitchen
80 seat coffee shop
Two more day sets in 1941 for Noon Daylight 10256/7/8 and 10259/60/61
10259 and 10261 were rebuilt to 68 seat coaches as 2280/2281 in 1964.
The first night sets for the Lark in 1941 10274/5/6 10277/8/9
Dormitory-Kitchen
48 seat dining room
Tavern Lounge
The 1949 Shasta Daylight cars 10262/3/4 10265/6/7
66-seat coffeee shop
66-seat dining room
And finally, the 1950 Cascade sets 10280/1/2 and 10283/4/5
44 seat dining room
Tavern-Lounge
Both the Lark and Cascade were all-Pullman at the time of the cars' introduction.
BaltACD Deggesty The original UP City trains had articulated cars. At that time, it seems to have been the thing to do. All the early Streamliners were articulated with permanetly attacthed power cars - City of Salina, Pioneer Zephyr, Twin Zephyrs. Theory being that a low horsepower power car could handle the light weight of the articulated trains. Theory worked, however it was found that the articulation restricted the utility of the trains - if there was a major shopping incident that couldn't be fixed for the next departure then the entire train had to be replaced by another standard train. When success struck the trains, they could not be easily expanded to handle the passenger load.
Deggesty The original UP City trains had articulated cars. At that time, it seems to have been the thing to do.
All the early Streamliners were articulated with permanetly attacthed power cars - City of Salina, Pioneer Zephyr, Twin Zephyrs. Theory being that a low horsepower power car could handle the light weight of the articulated trains. Theory worked, however it was found that the articulation restricted the utility of the trains - if there was a major shopping incident that couldn't be fixed for the next departure then the entire train had to be replaced by another standard train. When success struck the trains, they could not be easily expanded to handle the passenger load.
I think the poster was referring to later editions of City trains which included articulated diners and coaches in a loose-coupled consist. Seemed to work just fine, as do fixed consist trains worldwide.
DeggestyThe original UP City trains had articulated cars. At that time, it seems to have been the thing to do.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
What about the cost of staff...could they not conceivably listed them as one car and then only have to provide one attendant(for an articulated coach), same with diner, staff for one but serving two sides?
The original UP City trains had articulated cars. At that time, it seems to have been the thing to do.
Johnny
BaltACD I have never understood SP's infatuation with Articulated cars, of which this Diner/Lounge is just one example. They had articulated coaches in the original Daylight as well as articulated cars assigned to other trains. I don't see where the elimination of one or two trucks has a payback on either weight or maintenance to overcome the costs of being unable to match number of cars to anticipated load.
I have never understood SP's infatuation with Articulated cars, of which this Diner/Lounge is just one example. They had articulated coaches in the original Daylight as well as articulated cars assigned to other trains. I don't see where the elimination of one or two trucks has a payback on either weight or maintenance to overcome the costs of being unable to match number of cars to anticipated load.
Just guessing here but could that have been due to pre-war rearmament or rationing of steel at the time? Noticed that CB&Q Zephyr trainsets used articulation and were built around the same time? Maybe not, just guessing.
rcdrye Deggesty Did not the Sunbeam cars, except for the observation car, also run on the Hustler? I'm sure they did. SP also had some overland gray ones operating on the Challenger. Some of the cars had 46 seets per section.
Deggesty Did not the Sunbeam cars, except for the observation car, also run on the Hustler?
Did not the Sunbeam cars, except for the observation car, also run on the Hustler?
I'm sure they did. SP also had some overland gray ones operating on the Challenger. Some of the cars had 46 seets per section.
In 1950, the same equipment went one way as the Hustler, and returned as the Sunbeam.
See http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track9/sunbeam195008.html
Whatever their failings, SP's articulated coaches enjoyed a long service life from 1937 to the mid 1970s where their careers finished on Amtrak's San Joaquin service. Not only did they save a truck per car, but the large restrooms on either side of the joint (Men in one car, Women in the other) were very nice by coach standards. At 50 seats per section, they were fairly high capacity for comfortable cars. After the 1950's rebuild with flat stainless steel side panels, they (and other cars with the same treatment) were sometimes referred to locally as "Tomato Cans". SP ran and painted articulated coaches in Daylight, Sunbeam (T&NO), Golden State (CRI&P) and overland (UP/C&NW) service. Amtrak bought six pairs in 1973, retire them in 1976 and 1977.
The articulated diner made quite a bit of sense, two separate dining areas served by a common kitchen. The articulated coupling provided a clear walkway between the kitchen and dining, much more convenient than trying to carry food through a vestibule.
I think there was a bit of weight saving with the two unit articulated coach over a pair of non-articulated cars, and the Espee had single unit coaches in case they needed more space. My recollection was that the Daylight trains were pretty much a fixed consist.
Fixed consists seem to work fine for Acela and most HSR and other trains worldwide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_TGV_Atlantique
Yeah, for the speed record run, the pair of locomotives had to pull a 3-car articulated set -- there was no smaller unit.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Fair shape, at least it is not all broken up in side but needs cleaning and some interior work. Interesting to still see it in almost pure SP Configuration (except for the missing dorm area for the crew).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMmvILKJKZw
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