I have been kicking around a car rental concept that could be quickly implemented if Amtrak wanted to sponsor such. It would essentially allow one to efficiently rent a car to begin their trip.
Here is how it would work. When you search on Amtrak.com to start a trip, if the city is offline, a package of two one way rentals, bundled together at a normal roundtrip rate, would be offered to get your party to the originating station and then back to your point of begining when you return from your rail trip.
Conceptually, it makes little difference to the car rental agencies if this physically happens, even less so if the quantity of cars in the station city is somewhat balanced.
The rental agency (under special agreement) would still be renting the car to you while you travel to the station at the same or better rate per day, then renting it to other parties while you are away, then renting the same or different car for the return trip. Such might even allow them to cycle stock for free to cities where they buy or sell cars or take better possesion deals, as I understand the quantity of true one-way rentals is pretty limited.
What might be even more interesting is it would allow Amtrak to gauge demand for cross platform connections or future trains. Combined with more sleepers covering incremental cost the arrangement could serve to build volume to support more station and train ammenties.
So for example, one could rent a car in Montgomery, AL to gain access to the Crescent route, so as to travel overnight to Charlottesville, VA, all for less hassle and cost than a two connection air ticket.
As far as I can tell it would just take a negogiation by Amtrak and an updated reservations shell, over their train system.
One of the items I enjoyed while sightseeing in Canada is one could rent a car at the Calgary airport with Hertz, drive it to Banff, Lake Louise and up the Icefields Parkway to Jasper and turn it in at the Jasper VIA Train station. Board the VIA train to Prince Rupert, then on return from Prince Rupert, pick up the rental car at the station and drive back to the Calgary Airport. That was nice and it is too bad that you cannot do the same at many Amtrak stations because they no longer offer Rental Car service.
Each airport has at least one "FBO" -- fixed base operator -- to service the private planes and their passengers for that airport. Among other services, the FBO will act as agent for the rental car companies in completing the rental paperwork for known customers, providing or receiving custody of the auto, etc.
Would that arrangement work for Amtrak at their staffed stations?
V.PayneThe rental agency (under special agreement) would still be renting the car to you while you travel to the station at the same or better rate per day, then renting it to other parties while you are away, then renting the same or different car for the return trip.
Talk about your real-world practical nightmares. What happens if the 'round-trip' car shows up with a dent, or obvious smoking odor, or some component missing or damaged? Are you expecting Amtrak personnel to do the full walkthrough and take the customer-service responsibility for charging the rental customer? Lots of liability, lots of responsibility, almost no authority at all, and little if any additional pay for the assumption of all the additional hassles and risk.
It might be made to work if you had a person at each attended station who was "empowered" (and compensated) by the rental agency to do the necessary check-out and turn of the vehicle between customers. But I suspect this would require a certain minimum volume of clientele to work, and I don't see the advantage over, say, a discounted or 'preferential' version of Uber or similar provider model to act like a courtesy shuttle (perhaps with multiple passengers) to an established rental facility in the first place. It would be almost incredibly easy to coordinate jitney arrival with train time, no matter how early or late, and to arrange for a variety of services and amenities to be provided right then, as opposed to having a vehicle sit idle for what might be an extended period of time, taking up parking better dedicated to actual passengers' vehicles.
RME V.Payne Talk about your real-world practical nightmares. What happens if the 'round-trip' car shows up with a dent, or obvious smoking odor, or some component missing or damaged? Are you expecting Amtrak personnel to do the full walkthrough and take the customer-service responsibility for charging the rental customer? Lots of liability, lots of responsibility, almost no authority at all, and little if any additional pay for the assumption of all the additional hassles and risk. It might be made to work if you had a person at each attended station who was "empowered" (and compensated) by the rental agency to do the necessary check-out and turn of the vehicle between customers. But I suspect this would require a certain minimum volume of clientele to work, and I don't see the advantage over, say, a discounted or 'preferential' version of Uber or similar provider model to act like a courtesy shuttle (perhaps with multiple passengers) to an established rental facility in the first place. It would be almost incredibly easy to coordinate jitney arrival with train time, no matter how early or late, and to arrange for a variety of services and amenities to be provided right then, as opposed to having a vehicle sit idle for what might be an extended period of time, taking up parking better dedicated to actual passengers' vehicles.
V.Payne
If rail stations had the same passenger volume as airports, then having car rental operations at rail stations would be viable. The only rail stations that have that kind of volume are in the downtown areas of major metropolitan areas where passengers principal destinations can be reached by walking or short taxi cab rides.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD RME V.Payne Talk about your real-world practical nightmares. What happens if the 'round-trip' car shows up with a dent, or obvious smoking odor, or some component missing or damaged? Are you expecting Amtrak personnel to do the full walkthrough and take the customer-service responsibility for charging the rental customer? Lots of liability, lots of responsibility, almost no authority at all, and little if any additional pay for the assumption of all the additional hassles and risk. It might be made to work if you had a person at each attended station who was "empowered" (and compensated) by the rental agency to do the necessary check-out and turn of the vehicle between customers. But I suspect this would require a certain minimum volume of clientele to work, and I don't see the advantage over, say, a discounted or 'preferential' version of Uber or similar provider model to act like a courtesy shuttle (perhaps with multiple passengers) to an established rental facility in the first place. It would be almost incredibly easy to coordinate jitney arrival with train time, no matter how early or late, and to arrange for a variety of services and amenities to be provided right then, as opposed to having a vehicle sit idle for what might be an extended period of time, taking up parking better dedicated to actual passengers' vehicles. If rail stations had the same passenger volume as airports, then having car rental operations at rail stations would be viable. The only rail stations that have that kind of volume are in the downtown areas of major metropolitan areas where passengers principal destinations can be reached by walking or short taxi cab rides.
There is quite a difference in the times of passenger trains in the two cities.
Johnny
BaltACDIf rail stations had the same passenger volume as airports, then having car rental operations at rail stations would be viable. The only rail stations that have that kind of volume are in the downtown areas of major metropolitan areas where passengers principal destinations can be reached by walking or short taxi cab rides.
Thats not much of an issue as most might think, IMO.
They can establish it as a satellite location vs full service. Marriott Hotel in Schaumburg, IL had only maybe 200 rooms and they had a Hertz in the lobby with the Front Desk folks handling the keys. A Local Edition Hertz nearby would oversee the car supply in the parking lot as well as inspect the cars. Amtrak has a Hertz location at Chicago Union Station. Passenger throughput at the Amtrak station also makes little difference if the location can also serve the local surrounding community as well. Local demand for car rental because of car accidents, car repair and insurance coverage for rental car.....big part of local business. Vacation trips as well, where someone that has a small car would like a larger one to drive long distance.
The Enterprise model of delivering the cars from an offsite location does not work very well from my traveling experience though because a lot of times the Enterprise location that offers the service is understaffed and has clients waiting in line right at their counter to pick-up a car and so cannot afford in many instances to send out a driver.............had that same experience in Shaumburg, IL with the Enterprise location there. So I think the above concept is preferable. Not sure you could train Amtrak folks in how to handle rental cars though.....they seem to have issues just with the complex Checked Baggage rules (lol). Soooo, that might be an issue.
Balt and Johnny are right. If the rental companies thought there was money to be made, they'd be in a lot more Amtrak stations. The OP's scheme seemed complex and unappealing, as it probably would to Avis, et al..
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
NCDOT is experimenting working with a local software company and UBER to coordinate first and last mile transportation. See:
https://apps.ncdot.gov/newsreleases/details.aspx?r=13227
This could not be Amtrak doing the check-in. They would be the lot landowner, reservation system architect, and money taker only to pass everything along, just like booking a hotel through them. It would have to be a national partner rental car company with a negogiated rate.
The concept would be approximately the volume seen in dedicated "local edition" hotel and bodyshop locations as well as private aircraft FBO's bases. There is not a lot of actual checking done to turn in a car, cleaning is a bit more labor intensive, but that could be combined with red cap personnel doing the work outside arrival times (nothing of this would be at the ticket counter). Maybe just maybe, stations could become welcoming again, with some service on the street curb.
A simple HD photo kiosk hung from a canopy could accomplish most of the documentation at the check in/out parking spot.
Many downtowns lack rental locations at all, not just around train stations, they used to exist to serve the downtown hotels and their disuse occured when many of those hotels closed. If one hasn't noticed the downtown hotel locations are now hot properties along with office locations nearby now, so much of the volume just might be there with a good sponsor.
Here is where this fits in to the overall intercity travel market, the average age of light vehicles is around 10 years in the US. That means many people have cars (and drivers licenses) that they feel comfortable with around town, but would not want to take on a long trip for fear of a breakdown that would strand them. I have one like that and another new one in the family.
So this concept would allow one to start a trip reasonably and have no responsibility for paying for parking while away. Airlines might could never do this due to loss of the rental car fees and parking rates that are used to finance the airport itself, but train stations could combine local demand in a city with a low fee arrangement. There is stll the need to transfer stock in and out of smaller cities.
All it takes is a sponsor who wants to grow the business.
V.Payne This could not be Amtrak doing the check-in. They would be the lot landowner, reservation system architect, and money taker only to pass everything along, just like booking a hotel through them. It would have to be a national partner rental car company with a negogiated rate. The concept would be approximately the volume seen in dedicated "local edition" hotel and bodyshop locations as well as private aircraft FBO's bases. There is not a lot of actual checking done to turn in a car, cleaning is a bit more labor intensive, but that could be combined with red cap personnel doing the work outside arrival times (nothing of this would be at the ticket counter). Maybe just maybe, stations could become welcoming again, with some service on the street curb. A simple HD photo kiosk hung from a canopy could accomplish most of the documentation at the check in/out parking spot. Many downtowns lack rental locations at all, not just around train stations, they used to exist to serve the downtown hotels and their disuse occured when many of those hotels closed. If one hasn't noticed the downtown hotel locations are now hot properties along with office locations nearby now, so much of the volume just might be there with a good sponsor. Here is where this fits in to the overall intercity travel market, the average age of light vehicles is around 10 years in the US. That means many people have cars (and drivers licenses) that they feel comfortable with around town, but would not want to take on a long trip for fear of a breakdown that would strand them. I have one like that and another new one in the family. So this concept would allow one to start a trip reasonably and have no responsibility for paying for parking while away. Airlines might could never do this due to loss of the rental car fees and parking rates that are used to finance the airport itself, but train stations could combine local demand in a city with a low fee arrangement. There is stll the need to transfer stock in and out of smaller cities. All it takes is a sponsor who wants to grow the business.
Local Hertz affiliates are locally managed and some locally owned. If your passionate about this setup a meeting with a local Hertz affiliate manager. Find out what kind of volume you need to achieve with rentals to make a train station location doable business wise. Your going to have to do some kind of proof of concept and that means your probably going to need to modify your initial design of a kiosk or reservation overlay unless your going to fund that out of pocket.
So what I am saying here is your going to have to do most of the work here to make this proof of concept happen so it depends on how passionate you are about the idea and how much time and money your going to spend on your own trying to convince them........maybe you can patent the idea or the software and get a royalty in return if it proves viable to get your money back and compensated for your time.
Almost impossible to walk up to a business owner with something like this verbally and have them go out and take all the risk themselves. Amtrak won't lift a finger unless you prove it to the point that it does not require brain activity to see it will produce revenue for Amtrak.......then maybe.
V.PayneMany downtowns lack rental locations at all, not just around train stations, they used to exist to serve the downtown hotels and their disuse occured when many of those hotels closed. If one hasn't noticed the downtown hotel locations are now hot properties along with office locations nearby now, so much of the volume just might be there with a good sponsor. Here is where this fits in to the overall intercity travel market, the average age of light vehicles is around 10 years in the US. That means many people have cars (and drivers licenses) that they feel comfortable with around town, but would not want to take on a long trip for fear of a breakdown that would strand them. I have one like that and another new one in the family. So this concept would allow one to start a trip reasonably and have no responsibility for paying for parking while away. Airlines might could never do this due to loss of the rental car fees and parking rates that are used to finance the airport itself, but train stations could combine local demand in a city with a low fee arrangement. There is stll the need to transfer stock in and out of smaller cities. All it takes is a sponsor who wants to grow the business.
What it takes is a concept that makes sense. If you think yours is such an innovative money maker, why has nobody grabbed it?
schlimm If you think yours is such an innovative money maker, why has nobody grabbed it?
I can tell you having been in the Franchise business that is not really a litmus test a lot of Franchisees are too busy trying to keep their head above the financial break even line they do not think of new marketing approaches or trying new ways of doing business. Especially considering one of the participants is Amtrak (a partial government entity). Could very well be this was overlooked.
On the flip side of the issue it is a little unreasonable to think you can walk up to a business owner with a unproven idea and make a suggestion to adopt it that costs them money and time and expect them to drop everything and try it. Won't happen in most cases.
Interesting historical tidbit here:
One of the items cited in the first Auto Train bankrupcy was the sweat heart deals between the Airlines and the Car Rental Companies in Orlando.
wanswheel
63 years ago, passenger trains were still very popular all over the US, so car rental made sense and profits.
Sometimes it pays to read the actual fine print in these ads.
It appears that the 'original' Rail-Auto plan -- and the versions featured in the early '50s -- involved something a bit different from what Mr. Payne was suggesting. You will see there that the reservation could be made for you from the railroad or the station ("any railroad ticket agent will make a reservation for you when you reserve your space or purchase your ticket ... Always insist on Hertz!) but that your car would be provided for you ... look carefully at the picture ... at the local Hertz office, to which you might be driven by a courtesy car sent to meet your train. Presumably your return would be coordinated the same way - turn the car in at the Hertz office (after dropping off the luggage and any fellow passengers?) and being driven back to the station.
Enterprise Rent-A-Car has for many years offered 'free pick-up' when you rent from them, and of course they are perfectly happy to do so to meet a scheduled train. It is not that much of a 'stretch' for them to arrange dropoff or a ride to a local Amtrak station. Looking toward the future, one of the first places that true autonomous-vehicle operation might be provided is between a local car-rental office and places like airports or Amtrak stations, following predictable and easily instrumented routes, so that customers can quickly and reliably get into their rental upon their arrival at a station, or "drop and go" when they go back. That neatly keeps the vehicle under the rental company's control almost completely during all the time the vehicle is not being actively rented, and gets around the million points of darkness that may occur when somebody rents a supposedly-private vehicle that somebody else has just got through using (that approach may work well with shopping or luggage carts, or tourist bicycles, but already has a bad reputation with PRTs...)
Note the emphasis in the Hertz ads about modern, private, clean vehicles devoid of advertising stickers - indistinguishable from 'your own car'. Continuing that as almost an assumption is part of most current national car-rental operations. Where that fits in with 'rent the car to someone else while you're taking the train somewhere, and be sure to have it back by the time you return' is an interesting question, economically and logistically.
The New Haven arrangement (perhaps very early in the Hertz Drive-Ur-Self Rail-Auto history) mentioned that it was only available via the New Haven to nine cities (NYC plus "eight key cities covering the rich trading areas of southern New England") That might well be a list of the cities supporting an adequate volume of originating car-rental business that would justify an independent Hertz office there, and of course it would be good business then to locate the office relatively near a principal railroad station. This was in the age of limited 'free' mileage (one of the '50s examples gives 30 miles per day) and a fixed mileage charge that included oil and gasoline (you got credit for any you bought when you turned the car in, which is a marketing advantage!) Interestingly, the New Haven mentioned 'free allowance for automobile reservation telegrams' which might be a very different thing from free reservations ... and might indicate that you'd pay something for that ticket agent helpfully making your Hertz reservation. (Today, of course, making free reservations for a customer is almost a cinch.)
Note also the reference to "new reduced ... rental rates -- uniform at all points -- offered only to patrons of the New Haven Railroad". Would Amtrak have the authority (or the funding availability) to engage in arranging for, co-publicizing, and subsidizing special rental rates, check-in procedures, etc. for its customers? I think this, not some fancy ride-sharing scheme, might be the way to go with this service.
(A good place to see the New Haven material is here (click on the image and then go to page 2 of 4 for the enlarged version). Note the intended contrast between the poky little car at the bottom and the "modern RAIL travel in air-conditioned comfort" epitomized by that streamlined Hudson and paired-window cars above!)
When I was driving, I used Enterprise many times. I would ask to be picked up at a railroad station or a hotel, and ask to be taken to a station or hotel when I no longer needed the car.
The only close call I had came the first time I rented a car in New Orleans--#59 was quite late, and I was glad that the train was headed in and not run around the wye.
I think there is a limit as to how far the pickup/delivery service is extended.
Loved the old Hertz program ads, it reminds us of how much we have lost in terms of functional service to support train travel.
The remnants of one of these old rental locations under the railroad viaduct existed in my hometown three decades ago, next to a deserted 15 story hotel shell and closed shops. Now the hotel has been renovated as a Hilton and the shops are back along with some nice restaurants, but what about traveler ammenties.
I realize I am writing to a different audience that might not use such a service, but completely automated rental car check-in/out software has already been perfected and put into use by the likes of ZipCar, Hertz 24/7, and Enterprise CarShare, all offering hourly rentals from on-street locations by means of an external keypad for a smartphone code or RFID key fob for members.
I don’t believe the software is a question, there are even open software vendors.
The question is two-fold, can this business model work for the rental companies who would supply cars from smaller city locations onward toward larger city boarding stations and can this concept be implemented in the current environment of city owned stations that have been funded in many cases by various grants where there a few parties interested in entrepreneurship?
Conceptually, car rental is an arbitrage off the purchase price of large lots of fleet vehicles and the potential sale price of the same vehicle within about a year at a discount to a new vehicle. The monthly rates work out to be less than $300/mo. But purchase and delivery of vehicles and then collection of those same vehicles for resale, could cost $600 over the one year life. I still submit that this would allow for the trip from the purchase point to market and the trip to the bigger city market for resale could become revenue moves for the rental agency, making this attractive.
Cities who are sponsoring stations now more than likely as transit hubs would likely have to be the landlord but would have an interest in having cars on site for transit customers who might want rental cars on occasion, just like the hourly services. So they might have an interest, along with supporting businesses in downtown offices and say downtown convention hotel guests, who might also want short or one-way rentals to their hotels or for the free night at the conference.
Hertz and many of the players have been experimenting with future rental offices, that would be a blend of the 24/7 hourly rental arrangement and traditional offices.
Maybe, the station design becomes a unbranded, common fenced parking lot, with powered gates and plenty of cameras, owned by the city, leased, with a direct connection only into the station waiting room. Then each rental agency has their own key return kiosk, with videoconferencing to agents as described above, who have a view of the lot. Look a this summary of on demand rentals.
Again, Amtrak would have to push for this as it would require coordination of these physical improvement around the stations they lease from cities typically.
V.PayneI still submit that this would allow for the trip from the purchase point to market and the trip to the bigger city market for resale could become revenue moves for the rental agency, making this attractive.
Enterprise already charges substantial "transfer fees" for moving its retired cars between its used-car sales locations, payable 100% by the purchaser. These fees are in excess of those I have seen for equivalent vehicle transportation (between end locations, not company-to-company transfers) and the elapsed time for the transfer can be days longer than a usual 'contracted' run by an automobile transporter would be. These indicate to me that Enterprise, at least, is getting full value out of relocating 'retired' vehicles to company outlets away from the nearest point at retirement from service. I think this accentuates the point you were making about marginal cost to provide an actual rental vehicle.
I think if there was money to be made doing this, the major agencies would already be doing it.
As a stand alone, boutique sort of operation, I can't see it working. There's traditional methods of arranging a rental car that most people are content with. You would have to offer something really special and different that is more cost effective than what consumers already have. There's Enterprise offices everywhere nowadays, and they'll pick you up and drop you off at the Amtrak station. I don't really see the uniqueness in your business plan.
When I was driving, I used Enterprise quite often when traveling.I was limited, somewhat, by the fact that most non-airport offices were closed Saturday afternoons and Sundays--and on some holidays (the Moncton, N.B., office was not open on Good Friday, but was open the next morning, thus keeping my wife and me from spending a night in Charlottetown, P.E.I.; we arrivied in Moncton on Friday).
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