It amazes me that so few people ride the Hoosier State. I rode that train recently to experience the upgraded service and I could not believe the low patronage. Southbound in Business Class there were just four. Three women traveling as a group to Lafayette, IN and me. The conductor said there was just 23 in coasch out of CUS. Returning a few days later was even worse. A woman connecting to the CZ and me in Business Class and 18 in coach. How do they continue to survive with such numbers? The service was great especially compared to Amtrak. Not really up to Pullman standards but certainly heads above the LSL which I connected from/to. The food was really excellent as was the alcohol that flowed continuously if that is what you wanted. I certainly enjoyed my pre-dinner cocktail and glass of wine with dinner followed by a brandy with dessert and coffee. I guess people on this route are more interested in cheap bus fares than comfort. Timekeeping was good with a 20 minute early arrival into Indianapolis and about 5 minutes early into Chicago. Chicago exit and entry were slow and convoluted but we made the schedule with time to spare in both directions. I was disappointed to see so few people on board. Ride it now while you can.
On Nov 6th, I rode the Hoosier to participate in a tour of Amtrak's Beech Grove Repair Facility coordinated by the Cincinnati Railroad Clup which took a chartered bus to Indy. It was a Sunday evening and the train had about 60 coach passengers and about 16 in Business Class. Most of the coach passengers were destined for Lafeyette. As Runnerdude48 states, the route out of Chicago is slow. The former C&EI (NS) is mostly forty mph but as we got to Dolton we slowed to 20 and came to a stop waiting for CN (former GT) to accept us. Once on CN, we ran for the short distance to the former Monon (now CSX). Max speed on CSX was sixty and I was a good trip with some jointed rail making its presence felt. As in the dudes trip, we waited for time at all of our stops arriving in Indy about twenty minutes ahead of schedule. Lv CHI 5:45 PM, ar IND 11:50 PM (4 hr, 5 min)
Amtraks Repair Facility (ARF) is very large and I found it very interesting. They repair and refurbish cars and locomotives (plus store the two Talgos). We saw how they strip a Superliner of its paint, remove its trucks, seats and other equipment, (hot water heaters, air conditioning units, etc) and rebuild it. One of our guides jobs is to clean the waist tanks and he told us about some of the joys in that task. A car is on shop trucks while in the ARF and is restored to rebuilt trucks before release. We saw a damaged P42 having metal work being done to it plus a new prime mover being readied for installation. I won't bore you with everything, just say that it was a very informative tour.
Because I delayed in buying my return ticket, I lost out on getting a Southwest Airlines low fare one hr 5 min flight (was $45 but went to $135) so chose to take the Greyhound ($25.50) back. It was not express (cruised on the the highway at 67 mph) but got off the Interstate to stop in downtown Lafayette, Gary, and 95th St before reaching the Chicago Greyhound Station. Depart Indy 6:00 PM ar Chicago @ 9:10PM (4 hr, 10 min).
Bus was not full, about 25 passenger on a 55 seat bus. Had wifi as did the Hoosier. No meals, no frills, just basic transportation. Coming out of Indy, I kept hearing an alarm (muted beep, beep) so at our Lafayette stop, metioned it to the driver who then went around and opened and closed all the baggage compartment doors and it stopped. One little torture cured.
So the fourtransportation choices between Indy and Chicago are:
Mode Cost Time Issue
Auto $100 2 hr 55 min Driving.
Air $45+ 1 hr 05 min Getting to/from Airport, TSA delays
Bus $25.50 4 hr 10 min Getting to/from Bus Depot, Can't move around
Train $20-30* 4hr 05 min. Getting to/from Train Station
*Varies with day & train 50 is $20, 850 is $30
So you picks your poison and takes your chanches. I would have flown back at $45 but not $135
runnerdude48 How do they continue to survive with such numbers?
Primarily through a generous state subsidy.
In 2016 ticket revenues for the Hoosier state were $968,296. Fully allocated costs before depreciation and interest charges were approximately $3.5 million, leaving a loss before adjustments of $3,490,704.
Amtrak includes state subsidies, as well as food and beverage revenues, etc. in total revenues. By its accounting the train had an operating profit of $200,000. But to get there the state had to kick in $2,731,704, which was an average subsidy of $92.64 per rider.
The $200,000 operating profit may have been an agreed contract return or incentive profit for the train operator.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
Electroliner 1935Auto $100 2 hr 55 min
Given that the distance according to Google is 183 miles, how do you calculate it costs $100? Using the tax deduction rate is not what it would cost me to drive. Out-of-pocket is more comparable, so 366/30mpg = 12 gal. X $2.10 = $25.20.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
runnerdude48 It amazes me that so few people ride the Hoosier State. I rode that train recently to experience the upgraded service and I could not believe the low patronage.
It amazes me that so few people ride the Hoosier State. I rode that train recently to experience the upgraded service and I could not believe the low patronage.
The schedule sucks. You have to get up at 6am to board the train in Indy (still dark most times of the year) and don't get back until 11:59pm. A better scheduled train would help a lot IMO.
OK. Thanks for the comments. I was in town for the Indianapolis Monumental Marathon and thought that taking the train would be better than sitting on a plane for 3 hours after running 26.2 miles. Schlimm, I think your cost of driving should be divided in half because he is giving one way fares. There is no way that a 183 mile trip would cost $100. (Unless you had to rent a car.) That may be part of the reason for lower patronage. My cost roundtrip in Business Class was $135. Worth it to me but probably not to others. Also, my trip was to Indy on the evening of 11/2 and return the morning of 11/6. Not exactly prime travel time. Still, three attendants and the chef plus the conductor and assistant and the engineer equals 7 crewmembers for 20 passengers is a huge crew to passenger ratio. Schedule is another reason. I arrived at 11:30PM and walked the dark, empty streets of downtown to my hotel. Having lived in the Bronx and Manhatten in one of my prior lives I maintain some street smarts and don't scare easily but if I was a tourist from the hinterland that might be somewhat intimidating. The return trip to be in the station by 5:30 AM was just as bad and required getting up at 4:15 AM. Overall I really enjoyed the upgraded service and would do it again if I had the chance. I also want to thank the taxpayers of Indiana for subsidixzing my trip to the tune of nearly $93.00. Had the fare been $230 I probably would have flown instead and takien my chances with my sore legs.
runnerdude48Schlimm, I think your cost of driving should be divided in half because he is giving one way fares. There is no way that a 183 mile trip would cost $100.
I was thinking he was giving the round trip cost, but even that is much too high. Not sure how he calculated the drive.
Clearly the train schedule is bad, it is too slow and lacks sufficient frequency to be an actual service.
schlimmschlimm wrote the following post 20 hours ago: Electroliner 1935 Auto $100 2 hr 55 min Given that the distance according to Google is 183 miles, how do you calculate it costs $100? Using the tax deduction rate is not what it would cost me to drive. Out-of-pocket is more comparable, so 366/30mpg = 12 gal. X $2.10 = $25.20.
Do you really think gas is the only cost of operating a car? You have wear on the tires, oil changes, insurance and depreciation, repairs (true most cars are more reliable today) but no good accountant would IRS allows $0.55 per mile as business expense. You have to account for depreciation. Why do you think a $20,000.00 car is only worth 5,000.00 when you go to trade it in.
Of course it makes more sense to drive if you have more passengers as you can spread that cost over the number of passengers.
Runnerdude. My fare on the Hoosier was $70.00 one way business class and I could have gone coach but I wanted to experience the BC service and ride the dome so I paid the higher fare. It also was higher than had I booked it a week or more earlier. Amtrak has a pricing algorithom (sp) that I think they took from the airlines. I have driven this route and would love to have the NYC schedules of the fifty's and sixties. Riley used to leave Cincy at 8:30 AM and be in Chicago by 1:30, turn and be back in Cincy by 11:00 PM. Pennsy was slower. but it had three round trips. Tracks are not there for most direct route.
What this train needs is to have its own schedule separate from the Cardinal and have payments to the operating railroads to upgrade track to 79 mph and remove the speed restrictions in the Chicago area. The CSX route is pretty direct, but the 20, 40 and 60 mph speed limits need to be eliminated. Otherwise, there is no case for the train.
Coming out of Chicago at 40 & 20 mph made me think of the Electroliner having to come out of Chicago on the El and them being able to run at 80 on the Skokie ROW. Its a handicap. The Chicago -St Louis high speed project has a similar issue with the terminal areas in Chicago and St Louis. Run 110 between Joliet and Alton and crawl into the terminals.
Electroliner 1935Coming out of Chicago at 40 & 20 mph made me think of the Electroliner having to come out of Chicago on the El and them being able to run at 80 on the Skokie ROW. Its a handicap. The Chicago -St Louis high speed project has a similar issue with the terminal areas in Chicago and St Louis. Run 110 between Joliet and Alton and crawl into the terminals.
The railroads came and their existance brought the people who then hemed in the railroads and you have what we have today in major metropolitan areas. In the day it took the B&O 1 hour to go from Grand Central in Chicago to Gary - 30 miles. About 1'40" to go from Gary to Garrett - 120 miles.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Electroliner 1935Do you really think gas is the only cost of operating a car? You have wear on the tires, oil changes, insurance and depreciation, repairs (true most cars are more reliable today) but no good accountant would IRS allows $0.55 per mile as business expense. You have to account for depreciation. Why do you think a $20,000.00 car is only worth 5,000.00 when you go to trade it in.
What matters is out of pocket costs, in terms of comparisons. Tire wear is a pretty minor expense. Unless your car is defective, it burns very little oil. Insurance is a fixed cost within ranges. Depreciation has little to do with mileage. Your car depreciates thousands of dollars driving it home from the dealer. So the main expense is fuel. Unless you insist on driving a tank, you ought to be able to manage 30mpg on highways.
Accelerated depreciation is only for the very rich. If the average joe keeps their car for 150,000 miles. Mine about 225k. for a car costing $30,000 figure your depreciation at $.20 / mile. subtract junking payments. Then add in financing costs. 30k miles per year insurance $1600/year ( mileage based here ) another $.20 / mile. Gasoline $2.00 / Gallon mileage 20 MPG = $.10.
Tolls not calculated. However our HOT toll lanes run from $.05 to $.50+ (rush hours) per mile.
Have to retract statement. FRA actually issues PM/TM but it is not too current. Latest is 2nd quarter FY2016. Table 5. Only per each quarter and does not isolate for each leg of a train.
http://www.fra.dot.gov/eLib/details/L18308#p1_z25_gD_lRO_y2016
Interesting to see the chart. I rode with local railfan group on the Texas Eagle to the new stop at Arcadia Valley. We were the first southbound revenue passengers. Volunteers had the station museum open for us and served us refreshments too A large crowd got off at St. Louis before we departed. The conductor said 175 people, but it was a few days before Thanksgiving. Another railfan friend was down there Tuesday before the holiday and barely a place to sit in the station. I'm glad to see ridership up. Although looking at the chart, it's not up on all routes, but it is holding its' own. The Eagle had a full service diner with a kitchen, some of us went back to eat dinner. I mentioned to waiter that City of NOLA no longer has a diner, just cold sandwiches and some microwaved meals northbound. That's what I found when I rode in July. He said they talk about doing it on the Eagle too, but so far they have not.
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