Now for a return to modern passenger rail.
Starting with four high-capacity corridors:
"Recent studies (linked in the blurb) have found that the four-spoke, 220-mph Midwest high-speed rail network would have a staggering economic impact on the region. By 2030 the benefits of such a network would include an annual reduction in 4.3 billion highway miles, 3 billion air travel miles, 26 million hours of time spent in roadway congestion, 127 million gallons of gasoline and 1.4 million tons of pollutant emissions."
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm Now for a return to modern passenger rail. Starting with four high-capacity corridors: Chicago-Milwaukee-Madison-Minneapolis/St. Paul Chicago-Champaign-Springfield-St. Louis-Kansas City Chicago-Indianapolis-Cincinnati Chicago-Fort Wayne-Toledo-Detroit/Cleveland "Recent studies (linked in the blurb) have found that the four-spoke, 220-mph Midwest high-speed rail network would have a staggering economic impact on the region. By 2030 the benefits of such a network would include an annual reduction in 4.3 billion highway miles, 3 billion air travel miles, 26 million hours of time spent in roadway congestion, 127 million gallons of gasoline and 1.4 million tons of pollutant emissions."
I think the expense of just four spokes out of Chicago via METRA built up territory is going to cost a lot of money. That alone is a lot of real estate. Then you need space for a maintenence facility near Union Station somewhere.
Using existing trackage to enter metro areas, reducing top speed to 175 and possibly acquiring lightly or unused ROWs would help reduce the upfront costs. But it is an investment that will pay dividends as indicated.
schlimm But it is an investment that will pay dividends as indicated.
But it is an investment that will pay dividends as indicated.
See page IV of full 2012 study. Cost $83B. Benefits 2B/year. Break even operating cost, with maybe small contribution to capital recovery. No Net Present Value calculations, doubtless because they would show a negative value. Nice sounding handwaving about avoided highway and airport investments forgone.
In short the usual claims by the usual suspects.
Mac
83 billion? To build four trunk routes?
I would like to see how the CA HSR turns out to get more real-world data?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
PNWRMNM schlimm But it is an investment that will pay dividends as indicated. See page IV of full 2012 study. Cost $83B. Benefits 2B/year. Break even operating cost, with maybe small contribution to capital recovery. No Net Present Value calculations, doubtless because they would show a negative value. Nice sounding handwaving about avoided highway and airport investments forgone. In short the usual claims by the usual suspects. Mac
And the usual negativity by the usual anti-progress Luddites.
schlimm PNWRMNM schlimm But it is an investment that will pay dividends as indicated. See page IV of full 2012 study. Cost $83B. Benefits 2B/year. Break even operating cost, with maybe small contribution to capital recovery. No Net Present Value calculations, doubtless because they would show a negative value. Nice sounding handwaving about avoided highway and airport investments forgone. In short the usual claims by the usual suspects. Mac And the usual negativity by the usual anti-progress Luddites.
And the usual debating style by Schlimm, who refutes those who disagree with him by calling them names.
In this case, it isn't even his own thinking he insists we salute, but that of a one-issue group he has swallowed whole.
A nice business, and very much in the style of his political fellow-travelers.
dakotafred schlimm PNWRMNM schlimm But it is an investment that will pay dividends as indicated. See page IV of full 2012 study. Cost $83B. Benefits 2B/year. Break even operating cost, with maybe small contribution to capital recovery. No Net Present Value calculations, doubtless because they would show a negative value. Nice sounding handwaving about avoided highway and airport investments forgone. In short the usual claims by the usual suspects. Mac And the usual negativity by the usual anti-progress Luddites. And the usual debating style by Schlimm, who refutes those who disagree with him by calling them names. In this case, it isn't even his own thinking he insists we salute, but that of a one-issue group he has swallowed whole. A nice business, and very much in the style of his political fellow-travelers.
I (and others) realize you are just a pontificating ideologue who receives his input from rightist radio and TV. You never contribute anything to the forums beyond your ideology and self-serving notions. I posted an interesting blog piece along with links to several researched proposals. Obviously all you want in passenger rail is to keep an antiquated, heavily-subsidized LD train running with a high-class diner and sleeper near your town.
"Fellow-travelers"? An old Bircher phrase which they used in a pathetic attempt to smear Ike.
Furthermore, for a one-time reporter, your accuracy is dismal. I never "insisted you salute" anything. And rather than "swallow it whole" I offered a modification of the proposal. But I guess reality doesn't fit with your meme.
Paul Milenkovic 83 billion? To build four trunk routes? I would like to see how the CA HSR turns out to get more real-world data?
Well most of these routes are across flat farmland compared to California's topography, urbanization, and repeated earthquake environment. So I can see how 2-3 lines together would be cheaper than California.
I can only wish. I just rode the Hoosier from Chicago to Indianapolis. Leaving Chicago Union station, the train ran on UP tracks (former C&EI) from where it left the former PRR tracks at 40 mph to Dolton, then 20 mph past Yard Center until we got to CN track where we accelerated to 70 mph. Then CSX track speed was no greater than 60. Total duration 5 hr, 45 min. Nice ride, diner in the dome. Returned via Greyhound with stops at LaFayette, Gary, and 95th St. Duration 4 hr, 10 min. Driving nonstop would be 3 hr, 1 min per google. If the will to upgrade to 79 mph and to remove the delay points as they do elsewhere would be wonderful.
Please boys, lets not take this into attacks on each other as some are starting to do. You might kill the forum. And I like hearing what posters like Tree, K.P. and many others have to say.
schlimm dakotafred schlimm PNWRMNM schlimm But it is an investment that will pay dividends as indicated. See page IV of full 2012 study. Cost $83B. Benefits 2B/year. Break even operating cost, with maybe small contribution to capital recovery. No Net Present Value calculations, doubtless because they would show a negative value. Nice sounding handwaving about avoided highway and airport investments forgone. In short the usual claims by the usual suspects. Mac And the usual negativity by the usual anti-progress Luddites. And the usual debating style by Schlimm, who refutes those who disagree with him by calling them names. In this case, it isn't even his own thinking he insists we salute, but that of a one-issue group he has swallowed whole. A nice business, and very much in the style of his political fellow-travelers. I (and others) realize you are just a pontificating ideologue who receives his input from rightist radio and TV.
I (and others) realize you are just a pontificating ideologue who receives his input from rightist radio and TV.
In his speech after Secretary Clinton's concession phone call, President-Elect Trump emphasized rebuilding and modernizing America's infrastructure as front-and-center of his plan for governing.
There was much talk in the 2009 Stimulus Bill about infrastructure, but much of the money actually went to supporting teachers' salaries as state finances cratered. The share of the Stimulus for intercity rail didn't appear to go very far in terms of creating visibility of intercity rail and the benefits discussed in the linked piece. Maybe with this new start, things will be different this time?
So maybe this high-speed rail proposal will happen?
dakotafredIt is gracious of you to help me make my case.
It takes two to tango and honestly if you guys do not quit your both going to face suspension of your accounts........thats how the Mods will execute on this.
Paul Milenkovic In his speech after Secretary Clinton's concession phone call, President-Elect Trump emphasized rebuilding and modernizing America's infrastructure as front-and-center of his plan for governing. There was much talk in the 2009 Stimulus Bill about infrastructure, but much of the money actually went to supporting teachers' salaries as state finances cratered. The share of the Stimulus for intercity rail didn't appear to go very far in terms of creating visibility of intercity rail and the benefits discussed in the linked piece. Maybe with this new start, things will be different this time? So maybe this high-speed rail proposal will happen?
It's interesting his $1 trillion infrastructure program is twice as large as his former opponent. I like that the VP is from Indiana that pioneered mixing private money with state and federal money in a match formula to double or triple the impact of the infrastructure spending.
Now Trump has never mentioned rail specifically. However as a Real Estate mongul he has to be aware of transit oriented development (TOD) you would think but then again.........none of his developments that I am aware have been near transit lines. I am hoping Biden makes a case during his transition comming up for Amtrak.
I am hoping for rail to get it's fair share finally. Good News is Rep Mica is gone! So Amtrak will get some relief on it's food service. I think there is a good chance with Christie's involvement the Amtrak tunnels to Manhattan are back on the agenda. Christie did not like the fact the Feds were trying to push off risk and partial funding on the State of New Jersey but I don't think he was opposed to that project other than that one concern.
dakotafred schlimm dakotafred schlimm PNWRMNM schlimm But it is an investment that will pay dividends as indicated. See page IV of full 2012 study. Cost $83B. Benefits 2B/year. Break even operating cost, with maybe small contribution to capital recovery. No Net Present Value calculations, doubtless because they would show a negative value. Nice sounding handwaving about avoided highway and airport investments forgone. In short the usual claims by the usual suspects. Mac And the usual negativity by the usual anti-progress Luddites. And the usual debating style by Schlimm, who refutes those who disagree with him by calling them names. In this case, it isn't even his own thinking he insists we salute, but that of a one-issue group he has swallowed whole. A nice business, and very much in the style of his political fellow-travelers. I (and others) realize you are just a pontificating ideologue who receives his input from rightist radio and TV. It is gracious of you to help me make my case.
Fred: In the spirit of national unity, I am quite willing to bury the hatchet, whether you are or not. Let's move on!
Paul MilenkovicSo maybe this high-speed rail proposal will happen?
Maybe. You make some good points, especially why midwestern lines might be cheaper. And I have a feeling (maybe wishful thinking) the next four years may have some surprises across the board.
CMStPnP dakotafred It is gracious of you to help me make my case. It takes two to tango and honestly if you guys do not quit your both going to face suspension of your accounts........thats how the Mods will execute on this.
dakotafred It is gracious of you to help me make my case.
Do you know something about policing of the forum the rest of us don't?
schlimm Fred: In the spirit of national unity, I am quite willing to bury the hatchet, whether you are or not. Let's move on!
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