CSSHEGEWISCHThis extension was tried by Amtrak as the "Kentucky Cardinal" and it failed miserably. This route was tried during the Warrington presidency mostly for mail & express traffic, which did not show up. I find it unlikely that the State of Indiana for pay for track upgrades and this might be a low priority on a federal wish list.
Well first, thanks for reading instead of reading past the part about track improvements needed.
Second the track distance is not all that far between Indianapolis and Louisville, would not be a large investment to improve speed. CSX has an active trackwork project between the two cities and is actually working to improve speed itself. However, I think maybe investing in one of the shortlines between those two cities might be better and have less resistance and trains. Would need to be a Federal and State combo project. I don't think the State would do it on it's own either. Perhaps they could get Kentucky involved as well as Indiana.
I realize it is probably dreamland but both candidates are proposing $500 billion plus infrastructure programs so...........one can be a little optimistic that whomever gets there will deliver at least in part?
My wife and I rode the imporved Hoosier State from Indianapolis to Chicago and just loved the wonderful service and food in our business class service. The ride was very relaxing and the ATSF full dome car was a real treat. Thanks for the great service.
Another point, the track from Indianapolis to Louisville has been improved to allow more CSX trains to move directly form Louisville to Indianapolis. Most of the traffic seems to be auto racks. This former PRR route is in the best condition it has been in many years.
CMStPnP ^^^ Also in my view, I would extend it to Louisville and have it terminate in Louisville. Start thruway bus service to Lexington from Louisville and perhaps even from Nashville. Either get the state to pay for the track upgrades (Indianapolis to Louisville) or dip into federal funds. Lots of additional traffic to be had in Louisville, you have the Kentucky Derby, UK, Army traffic from Ft. Knox, UPS and Fed Ex Air Hubs (opening package express possibilities), etc. With track upgrades, what is it? Just 2 maybe 2.5 more hours to the South?
^^^ Also in my view, I would extend it to Louisville and have it terminate in Louisville. Start thruway bus service to Lexington from Louisville and perhaps even from Nashville. Either get the state to pay for the track upgrades (Indianapolis to Louisville) or dip into federal funds. Lots of additional traffic to be had in Louisville, you have the Kentucky Derby, UK, Army traffic from Ft. Knox, UPS and Fed Ex Air Hubs (opening package express possibilities), etc. With track upgrades, what is it? Just 2 maybe 2.5 more hours to the South?
This extension was tried by Amtrak as the "Kentucky Cardinal" and it failed miserably. This route was tried during the Warrington presidency mostly for mail & express traffic, which did not show up. I find it unlikely that the State of Indiana for pay for track upgrades and this might be a low priority on a federal wish list.
I'm an Ed Ellis man, make no mistake, but he's one of the last of the romantics with a checkbook, and I need to see a longer Hoosier State -- preferably a daily Cardinal, operated by him -- before I'm a believer.
http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=20011028n&item=0029
4:40 northbound and 5:10 southbound! No wonder it didn't work.
Northbound you have to leave Indy at 6am. Southbound you don't return to Indy until 11:59pm.
Forget making it faster, forget running it more often, the horrible times are preventing more ridership on the Hoosier State. Even with just one train running between the two, schedule it better and the ridership should dramatically improve.
It would be better IMO to split the Hoosier State and Cardinal to run at different times and to run the Hoosier State daily. Assuming the Cardinal sticks to 3x/week, Indianapolis would have 2 trains on Cardinal days and 1 on non Cardinal days. 7+3 is still better than 4+3. I'm not in favor of a daily Cardinal if it means the end of the Hoosier State/Iowa Pacific equipment. That wouldn't help Indy gain any more service and instead of the fancier dome cars you'd have the old Amtrak consist.
If I had my way, the Hoosier State could stay in the current Hoosier State/Cardinal time slots to allow connections to/from western trains and the Cardinal move to a time to better serve Indianapolis and Cincinnati. The westbound train would leave Chicago in the morning and arrive in Cincinnati before midnight and arrive in Washington/New York much earlier. The eastbound train would arrive/leave in Cincinnati in daylight and arrive in Indy around noon and Chicago around 6pm. The train would then not leave New York/Washington until much later in the afternoon. The Cardinal would then not allow same day transfers in Chicago but East Coasters can still take the Lake Shore Limited and Capitol Limited (faster rides anyway), Indianapolis would still have the Hoosier State, and for Cincinnati they trade the western transfers for service at better hours outside of the graveyard shift (plus the earlier arrival into Washington would allow for southern transfers to the Florida trains and the Crescent). The only way to have a train from Cincinnati to Chicago which would allow same day western transfers and both endpoints outside of the graveyard shift would be to run overnight both ways, leaving one endpoint and arriving at the other the next morning, and put Indianapolis in the graveyard shift (which is no better).
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
CMStPnP Well on the bidding out of LD Passenger Trains. Amtrak has a real labor protection issue to fix. It should not cost $5 Billion over 5 years to terminate all remaining 15 Long Distance Passenger Trains from Amtrak (CEO Boardman came up with that figure when Congress asked him why they could not be terminated easily). They need to address that at some point either via spinoff and bankruptcy to void the contracts or get Congress to intervene (unlikely). It's the next big albatross preventing LD train competiveness that needs to be tackled. Understood why Amtrak needed the protections in 1971 and why they partially need them now (uncertain Congressional funding year to year). However, at some point those agreements need to be fixed.
Well on the bidding out of LD Passenger Trains. Amtrak has a real labor protection issue to fix. It should not cost $5 Billion over 5 years to terminate all remaining 15 Long Distance Passenger Trains from Amtrak (CEO Boardman came up with that figure when Congress asked him why they could not be terminated easily).
They need to address that at some point either via spinoff and bankruptcy to void the contracts or get Congress to intervene (unlikely). It's the next big albatross preventing LD train competiveness that needs to be tackled. Understood why Amtrak needed the protections in 1971 and why they partially need them now (uncertain Congressional funding year to year). However, at some point those agreements need to be fixed.
I wonder if the state-supported routes, if outsourced like Hoosier State, remain bound by Amtrak's labor contracts?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
For comparison, I wonder what Amtrak's stats are for the IND-CHI leg of the Cardinal, that runs on alternate days.
If possible, stick to refurbished heritage-era cars.
If Amtrak decides that the Cardinal will be one of the two long distance trains to privatize, will Ed Ellis be tapped to take a stab at running it? Given the record with the Hoosier State, it might be both a sound and logical choice. I am trying to imagine what Amfleet and Viewliner cars would look like in IC colors.
I was skeptical about Ed Ellis being able to deliver, but it looks like he has done well. The level of service in refurbished heritage cars is very good. Makes on wonder why not use those designs for LD conventional speed trains, whether refurbished or new copies?
The Indiana Department of Transportation and on-line communities today celebrate one year of improvements to the Hoosier State® passenger train, which operates four days per week between Indianapolis and Chicago. During May and June of 2016, both ridership and revenue have increased as compared with the same months in 2015. Notably, ticket revenue has increased 62 percent or more.
The Hoosier State is among the highest-rated trains on the Amtrak system, with about 90 percent of riders surveyed in recent months being very satisfied. In the months since October 2015, on-time performance has averaged 82 percent.
http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?view=EventDetails&eventidn=250707&information_id=249618&type=&syndicate=syndicate
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