Other sites have some posters thinking with CSX's downgrading the route Huntington - Cincinnati to class 2 track (30 MPH) will cause major problems to Cardinal. If so what will happen to the Cardinal ?
Maybe the States/communities along the route that want to keep it, will have to do what those along the Southwest Chief route did-- come up with money for upkeep.
MidlandMike Maybe the States/communities along the route that want to keep it, will have to do what those along the Southwest Chief route did-- come up with money for upkeep.
If they do not, it is hard to imagine many people wanting to ride a train lugging along at 30 mph.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
In 2015 the Cardinal had an operating loss of $15.7 million or 37.5 cents per passenger mile. On ticket revenues the operating loss was $16.5 million.
The average loss per passenger mile for the long distance trains was 18.9 cents.
In 2015 103,633 passengers rode on the Cardinal for at least one station to station leg of the train's route. The average load factor was approximately 55 per cent. The average load factor for the long distance trains was 58.7 per cent.
Whether passengers would be willing to chug along at 30 mph is a good question. An equally good question is why is this train running at all?
Excluding the NEC special trains, only the Sunset Limited and Hoosier State lose more money per passenger mile than the Cardinal.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
JPS1 In 2015 the Cardinal had an operating loss of $15.7 million or 37.5 cents per passenger mile. On ticket revenues the operating loss was $16.5 million. The average loss per passenger mile for the long distance trains was 18.9 cents. In 2015 103,633 passengers rode on the Cardinal for at least one station to station leg of the train's route. The average load factor was approximately 55 per cent. The average load factor for the long distance trains was 58.7 per cent. Whether passengers would be willing to chug along at 30 mph is a good question. An equally good question is why is this train running at all? Excluding the NEC special trains, only the Sunset Limited and Hoosier State lose more money per passenger mile than the Cardinal.
And the Cardinal is the Hoosier State 3 days a week.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Unconfirmed report Cardinal has 2 V-1 sleepers. If so maybe the Easter rush ?
JPS1Whether passengers would be willing to chug along at 30 mph is a good question. An equally good question is why is this train running at all?
Even forgetting the losses, this train is an embarrassment. And apparently Iowa Pacific couldn't turn a sow's ear into something decent on the Hoosier three days per week.
blue streak 1 Unconfirmed report Cardinal has 2 V-1 sleepers. If so maybe the Easter rush ?
Any other way to get from Philly, Wilmington, or Balleemar to Chi without changing trains?
daveklepper Any other way to get from Philly, Wilmington, or Balleemar to Chi without changing trains?
Johnny
Although it involves a change of trains in D.C., the most efficient train way (time and cost) from Balitmore to Chicago is a NE regional train to D.C. and the Capitol Limited from D.C. to Chicago.
According to Amtrak's webpage, the total time on the NE regional and Capitol Limited is approximately 18 hours. The total time on the Cardinal is approximately 26 hours.
An economy room on the Cardinal for April 27th, which is one of the three days a week the Cardinal runs to Chicago, as a one-off example, is $594 at the time of this post. A business class seat is $502.25.
A business class seat from Balitmore to D.C. and an economy room on the Capitol Limited from D.C. to Chicago on April 27th is $265.15.
A coach seat on the Cardinal is $80. The lowest priced coach seat on the N.E. regional to D.C. and the Capitol Limited from D.C. to Chicago is $84.15.
No but you save quite a bit of time transferring in DC from any of these stations than taking the Cardinal. Philadelphia can also transfer in New York or in Pittsburgh (if you don't mind a 4 hr layover at night in a tiny station going west or a 2.5 hr layover in the wee hours in the morning in the same station going east.
If you want to help Philadelphia out, bring back the Broadway Limited.
And if the service and timekeeping were up-to-snuff, yes the market could support two NY - Chicago daily reasonably direct trains. Timing should be arranged so either one supports the NY - Cleveland and Cleveland - Chicago markets as well.
Up-to-snuff: The Broadway and the 21st Century Limited
daveklepper And if the service and timekeeping were up-to-snuff, yes the market could support two NY - Chicago daily reasonably direct trains. Timing should be arranged so either one supports the NY - Cleveland and Cleveland - Chicago markets as well. Up-to-snuff: The Broadway and the 21st Century Limited
All Aboard Ohio suggested extending the Pennsylvanian and starting a new "Three Rivers" on the opposite schedule running daytime through Ohio and overnight between Philly and Pittsburgh. The two trains also go through Michigan allowing a one seat ride between Detroit/Ann Arbor and Philadelphia and New York.
http://allaboardohio.org/2015/09/22/new-report-restore-passenger-rail/
schlimm JPS1 Whether passengers would be willing to chug along at 30 mph is a good question. An equally good question is why is this train running at all? Even forgetting the losses, this train is an embarrassment. And apparently Iowa Pacific couldn't turn a sow's ear into something decent on the Hoosier three days per week.
JPS1 Whether passengers would be willing to chug along at 30 mph is a good question. An equally good question is why is this train running at all?
now hang on now, what do you mean IP isn't doing something decent?
post removed by writer
From what I see at Chicago Union Station, Iowa Pacific is doing something decent with the "Hoosier State". The question is whether they are making any money on it.
Rode this from Staunton VA to Clifton Forge and train was 75% full, Airports are a long ways away in a mountain area and lots of small otta the way towns with no way in or out in a straight line. Would be better if they went back to Superliners for the veiw. Great area for leaf peepers.
CandOforprogress2 Rode this from Staunton VA to Clifton Forge and train was 75% full, Airports are a long ways away in a mountain area and lots of small otta the way towns with no way in or out in a straight line. Would be better if they went back to Superliners for the veiw. Great area for leaf peepers.
Superliners never were used on this route.
[below quote user="Philly Amtrak Fan"]
[above /quote]
Philly Amtrak Fan Just howdo you propose to serve Miichigan via Pittsburgh without wrecking the NY and Pittsburgh to and from Chciago business? Up to Toledo and then Detroit, then west hrough Ann Arbor is very roundabout. Lucky if NY -Chi is less than 24 hours. Michigan is still better served via Buffalo, even if also serving Toledo. daveklepper And if the service and timekeeping were up-to-snuff, yes the market could support two NY - Chicago daily reasonably direct trains. Timing should be arranged so either one supports the NY - Cleveland and Cleveland - Chicago markets as well. Up-to-snuff: The Broadway and the 21st Century Limited All Aboard Ohio suggested extending the Pennsylvanian and starting a new "Three Rivers" on the opposite schedule running daytime through Ohio and overnight between Philly and Pittsburgh. The two trains also go through Michigan allowing a one seat ride between Detroit/Ann Arbor and Philadelphia and New York. http://allaboardohio.org/2015/09/22/new-report-restore-passenger-rail/
Just howdo you propose to serve Miichigan via Pittsburgh without wrecking the NY and Pittsburgh to and from Chciago business? Up to Toledo and then Detroit, then west hrough Ann Arbor is very roundabout. Lucky if NY -Chi is less than 24 hours.
Michigan is still better served via Buffalo, even if also serving Toledo.
They were used between Chicago and DC
Deggesty How are you going to get Superliners through the tunnels between Penn Station and the Virginia Avenue interlocking? Superliners never were used on this route.
How are you going to get Superliners through the tunnels between Penn Station and the Virginia Avenue interlocking?
If they were used, they did not go North of Washington DC. I seem to remember they were used for a while.
Electroliner 1935 If they were used, they did not go North of Washington DC. I seem to remember they were used for a while.
According to Wikipedia the Cardinal was equipped with Superliner cars beginning in 1995. The consist usually was two sleepers, a diner, a sightseer lounge, a baggage coach and a coach.
The train did not run north of Washington because of clearance issues as noted above.
In 2002 the Cardinal's Superliners were reassigned, because of a car shortage as a result of derailments on other routes, and the Cardinal was equipped with low level cars.
daveklepper [below quote user="Philly Amtrak Fan"] All Aboard Ohio suggested extending the Pennsylvanian and starting a new "Three Rivers" on the opposite schedule running daytime through Ohio and overnight between Philly and Pittsburgh. The two trains also go through Michigan allowing a one seat ride between Detroit/Ann Arbor and Philadelphia and New York. http://allaboardohio.org/2015/09/22/new-report-restore-passenger-rail/ [above /quote] Philly Amtrak Fan Just howdo you propose to serve Miichigan via Pittsburgh without wrecking the NY and Pittsburgh to and from Chciago business? Up to Toledo and then Detroit, then west hrough Ann Arbor is very roundabout. Lucky if NY -Chi is less than 24 hours. Michigan is still better served via Buffalo, even if also serving Toledo.
Just howdo you propose to serve Miichigan via Pittsburgh without wrecking the NY and Pittsburgh to and from Chciago business? Up to Toledo and then Detroit, then west hrough Ann Arbor is very roundabout. Lucky if NY -Chi is less than 24 hours. Michigan is still better served via Buffalo, even if also serving Toledo.
It's not as long a detour as you think.
http://freepdfhosting.com/cf26514bc8.pdf
AAO has the CHI-NYP via Michigan at 921 miles. The current LSL is 959 miles.
Time wise
Current LSL:
NYP-CHI: 3:40pm ET to 9:45am CT (19 hr, 5 min)
CHI-NYP: 9:30pm CT to 6:23pm ET (19 hr, 53 min)
AAO Pennsylvanian:
NYP-CHI: 10:52am ET to 7:25am CT (21 hr, 33 min)
CHI-NYP: 7:00pm CT to 5:43pm ET (21 hr, 43 min)
So the difference is less than 2 hours east (about 2.5 hrs west) and I think that's well worth it to add Michigan.
The AAO figure could not be via both Pittsburgh and Toledo, which would be the rout Amtrak would be forced to use under your proposal.
I would be very happy to see a connecting service at Toledo or reinstatement of a Buffalo- Toledo route through Cabada.
And the extra two hours might not destroy NY - Chicago business but would seriously impact Cleveland - Chicago business.
daveklepper The AAO figure could not be via both Pittsburgh and Toledo, which would be the rout Amtrak would be forced to use under your proposal. I would be very happy to see a connecting service at Toledo or reinstatement of a Buffalo- Toledo route through Cabada. And the extra two hours might not destroy NY - Chicago business but would seriously impact Cleveland - Chicago business.
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