Formal dining cars on Indian trains are uncommon. Instead many trains have had on-board kitchens, with food-brought back to rooms/seats. Other services provide food loaded at select stations, based on orders forwarded by train crews. The Southern RY used to do this on trains like the "Royal Palm" in the 1960s after their diners were withdrawn, but only a very limited sandwich/fried chicken sort of menu was offered.
A great expansion of this offer to include the possibility of meals being provided at over 400 stations across India for on-board App/Internet ordering and enroute loading/immediate service on trains, has just been announced. The story is at http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/railways/e-catering-service-extended-to-408-major-railway-stations/articleshow/51397782.cms Many catering firms are involved and food choices depend on route and train. More is on-line from the Indian Railways at http://www.ecatering.co.in/
As a pasionate supporter of diner service I absolutely do not want to see this as a replacement of traditional food service on US trains (and I can see real on-board sanitation issues if Amtrak passengers and crew failed to clean-up after such meals were consumed, if they became the only food option), but there may be something here that could, for example, relieve Amtrak of the need for providing the staff for complete on-board food preparation, while still allowing entrees to be served fresh and hot. A diner could still be the venue.
Credible rumors out of Amtrak suggest that begining in May some sort of "catered entrees" will be added to the SILVER STAR for service from the overwhelmed cafe car, but apparently with no advanced way to gauge demand for specific items and with no added staff. If typical Amtrak/Boardman practices follow, this will not do much to relieve the terrible food-service situation on that train. Indeed a better main-course offering without added tables and staff could make things even worse on 91/92.
Already lines for food at dinner on the SILVER STAR frequently stretch for multiple cars back from the cafe counter. If only one man has to add entree preparation/heating/plating to his already impossible sandwich-sales dilemna (and if Amtrak as usually is the case understocks the new entrees) the situation will only get worse.
As noted, apparently the Boardman plan is to add no staff or added table space to the SILVER STAR. I suppose the sleeper attendants could (should?) handle prepping the new entrees for their passengers, but there will be only so much room in the cafe car and already Amtrak has proven completely unable to stock the Amfleet II cafe cars for a 31 hour, five meal run with even the existing sandwich menu. One advantage of the Indian system is that food is prepared "shoreside" on the day, to orders received directly from passengers the train and thus there is no problem for on-board stocking and storage.
The further beauty of the Indian idea is that the orders that are loaded enroute are already hot, plated and ready for service at seat or in a sleeper room. Of course they could also be served (especially to sleeper passengers) in a table-car (diner) setting, as long as provision was made to staff clean-up after on-board consumption.
In some form this might not only be a way to save a modicum of decent service on trains like the SILVER STAR, but also to add such an option to already diner-less trains with longer runs like the VERMONTER, PALMETTO, CAROLINIAN, ADIRONDACK and the MAPLE LEAF. At least under the IRTC system passengers get to order what they want and it's brought on fresh. The internet has made all sorts of new sales and service models practical.
Potential problems would include what to do if trains were late, how much time would need to be added at the "meal stations" to load food/remove waste, etc. The bigget issue would be finding qualified catereres as contractors and building the web-ordering platform, but IRTC has shown this can be done.But food catering is a very big businedss available virtually everywhere. The vendors could certainly be found.
One other issue in comparing this to the Indian system is that the expectation there is that passengers will pick-up the food themselves during longer enroute stops. I can see only chaos if all the 300 passengers on the SILVER STAR tried to detrain to grab their own meals. The food loading/delivery would have to be the responsibility of catering and/or Amtrak staff.
I'd prefer not to see this offered on true overnight long-hauls, (which really need traditional diners) but rather as suggested above, as an upgrade on the longer all-coach day services, but if Amtrak is held to its impossible "no food service losses in five years" promise, something like this may be the only way to go.
Something at least that we can discuss?
Carl Fowler
I think on the Superliner Diners they should have one of those lift up canopy type flaps on the first level so they can serve clients on the platform if it is one of those 20 minute station stops.........plus they need one of those "kiddie music" generators like ice cream trucks have that they can play as the train is rolling to a stop in the station vs. ringing the locomotive bell. That should increase dining car sales.
Great idea--but wait--it would require Amtrak to provide enough staff to set up the canopy and enough food to sell. Couldn't do that!
I actually used the Southern's "Order a Sandwich/Fried Chicken" service twice. The food varied by where it was ordered (and I presume who prepared it), but it was alot fresher than what I might have brought from home. I've also "enjoyed" Subway and KFC meals ordered enroute (admitedly by Amtrak staff without consulting those wanting to eat) on Amtrak several times when HEP failures knocked out cooking on-board.
I freely admit this entire discussion seems sad, but the threat posed by the combination of Libertarian fanatiscism from Congressman like John Mica and cowardise in standing up to them from Amtrak makes a food-service collapse not at all inconceiveable.
The post-May 1 catered experiment on the SILVER STAR will be interesting to watch. The sad thing is that Amtrak long-ago proved on the ACELA EXPRESS in First Class and on the CARDINAL diner-lite that done-right (with adequate staff and served in a proper way) catered/reheated food can be quite good--but trying to make one employee prep/heat/plate/serve hot entrees with 150 people waiting in line for sandwiches, snacks and booze as well just won't/can't work. But sadly that appears to be what the Boardman plan is for "improving" things on the SILVER STAR. I will be very happy to be wrong on this!
Railvt Great idea--but wait--it would require Amtrak to provide enough staff to set up the canopy and enough food to sell. Couldn't do that! I actually used the Southern's "Order a Sandwich/Fried Chicken" service twice. The food varied by where it was ordered (and I presume who prepared it), but it was alot fresher than what I might have brought from home. I've also "enjoyed" Subway and KFC meals ordered enroute (admitedly by Amtrak staff without consulting those wanting to eat) on Amtrak several times when HEP failures knocked out cooking on-board. I freely admit this entire discussion seems sad, but the threat posed by the combination of Libertarian fanatiscism from Congressman like John Mica and cowardise in standing up to them from Amtrak makes a food-service collapse not at all inconceiveable. The post-May 1 catered experiment on the SILVER STAR will be interesting to watch. The sad thing is that Amtrak long-ago proved on the ACELA EXPRESS in First Class and on the CARDINAL diner-lite that done-right (with adequate staff and served in a proper way) catered/reheated food can be quite good--but trying to make one employee prep/heat/plate/serve hot entrees with 150 people waiting in line for sandwiches, snacks and booze as well just won't/can't work. But sadly that appears to be what the Boardman plan is for "improving" things on the SILVER STAR. I will be very happy to be wrong on this! Carl Fowler
I was being sarcastic in the previous post.
Amtrak's deficit producing dining car service can only be fixed with think outside of the box ideas. My feeling is the onboard dining car on Long Distance trains will always loose money because the ridership on those same trains is not enough to support it financially. You could close that revenue gap by increasing the average ticket in the dining car but your never going to meet both the fixed and labor costs of operating the dining car without substantially more people riding the train long distance.
So the only way I know of spinning off the dining car service to a private operator is make it part of a package deal where the proprietor operating the dining car service also gets space in major Amtrak depots for selling food as a vendor and is allowed to sell food packages or cater outside the immediate Depot Marketing area. If Amtrak were to bundle all that up as one package, maybe then the LD dining car can be preserved. Without someway of spreading the costs over a larger operating food business.........it's just going to continue to lose money with the few patrons it has.
If I were Amtrak I would exit the dining car business altogether and sell it to a competent operator that perhaps uses a hybrid Fred Harvey / Pullman model. Pays for the cars to be attached to Amtrak trains and operates food service as a larger package thats profitable as outlined above owning eateries in every major Amtrak owned and operated station to offset the dining car operation losses. On very short distance runs were a dining car was not feasible (like Chicago to Milwaukee) that same vendor would have exclusive right to have distributed on the trains discount vouchers to eat in their station venue at either the destination or departure point. I would definitely sell the dining cars, the commissaries, and transition the employees that wanted to transfer to the private company and just exit the business altogether.
I think that might work as an alternative and if competently run, everyone would be happier. Congress, Amtrak, Amtrak's Passengers, etc.
I can't envision any firm wanting to bid on a dining-car contract with an arrangement as proposed by CMStP&P. The upfront costs look like they would be pretty steep (dining cars, cafeterias in stations, etc.) and the potential clientele is quite small. An arrangement as proposed might also require re-negotiation of existing labor contracts.
CSSHEGEWISCH I can't envision any firm wanting to bid on a dining-car contract with an arrangement as proposed by CMStP&P. The upfront costs look like they would be pretty steep (dining cars, cafeterias in stations, etc.) and the potential clientele is quite small. An arrangement as proposed might also require re-negotiation of existing labor contracts.
Then dump the dining car service altogether, keep a snack car and have the LD train stop for 2-3 hours once a day (maybe twice a day) so a full service meal can be had at or near a major Amtrak station. Amtrak could distribute vouchers, possibly make reservations prior to train arrival and ask for a commission back from the restaurants involved. Another alternative and since Amtrak is no longer interested in LD Train average speed or timekeeping of any sort it seems........probably feasible time wise.
CMStPnP CSSHEGEWISCH I can't envision any firm wanting to bid on a dining-car contract with an arrangement as proposed by CMStP&P. The upfront costs look like they would be pretty steep (dining cars, cafeterias in stations, etc.) and the potential clientele is quite small. An arrangement as proposed might also require re-negotiation of existing labor contracts. Then dump the dining car service altogether, keep a snack car and have the LD train stop for 2-3 hours once a day (maybe twice a day) so a full service meal can be had at or near a major Amtrak station. Amtrak could distribute vouchers, possibly make reservations prior to train arrival and ask for a commission back from the restaurants involved. Another alternative and since Amtrak is no longer interested in LD Train average speed or timekeeping of any sort it seems........probably feasible time wise.
Not feasible on a track occupancy basis unless Amtrack would build it's own sidings where FW&R would take place; carriers value their track space. Could the FW&R be extended to 36 hours on the ticket like it was for livestock by executing the proper paragraph of the Bill of Lading
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
CMSTP&P:
I knew you were being snarky. So was I, at least in my first paragraph.
Is this a serious idea? That Amtrak stop each of its LD trains for 2 to 3 hours in order that (former) dining car patrons can eat at at nearby restaurant? C'mon, really?
What if I want breakfast and lunch? Does the train stop twice, each time for 2 to 3 hours? What about passengers who don't want to eat or carry their own food? Do they have to wait 2 to 3 hours several times a day, while other passengers disembark and, what? walk to a nearby establishment? In all kinds of weather? Is the local restaurant supposed to have enough staff on hand for the 2 to 3 hours the passengers will be there? I don't think many cooks and servers will want to work only that few hours. What about weekends? Must the restaurant be open on Sundays? Sunday mornings? Who gets sued if Mrs. Jones slips and falls on her way to the restaurant? Will Kosher meals be found in North Dakota or Arkansas? What provisions will be made for handicapped passengers?
Yes, I know CMStPnP was being sarcastic, but I get nervous just reading such an idea! And as far as trying to find a food service to operate under Amtrak's rules and still make a profit, good luck with that!
It seems to me that no matter which way you look at it, dining cars on LD trains make sense. What's needed is an Amtrak management that has convictions and will fight aggressively and intelligently for those convictions.
Everyone realizes that politicians know as much about running trains as they do about running schools or agricultual policy. Bullies such as Cong. Mica and his ilk need to be stood up to, and their ridiculous ideas exposed for what they are.
Well on a serious note, Look up the past practices of the Santa Fe Railway. Used to be they would stop the train for passengers that wanted a good meal at the Fred Harvey Restaurant or stay overnight in the Fred Harvey Hotel.......why? Because the Passenger Trains back then were largely without dining cars and sleeping cars. Railroad management added those later and both are money losers now because instead of charging for at least part of their true costs, Amtrak discounts both in order to make them more affordable to the traveling public. Why not charge closer to the costs of both improve the offerings on both and close the LD train deficit more? A question that can only be answered by a politician.
You know another idea I had would be allowing Class I railroads bid on Amtrak LD passenger services as a fixed profit contract and allow them to couple the Amtrak train at the back of a long distance intermodal train, maybe behind the pusher locomotive. Also, reduce some of the intermediate station stops to speed the schedule more. Then allow the Class I's to innovate with cost reduction on the passenger side. Pay Amtrak only to depart Union Station and tow the train to the nearest intermodal yard for coupling on the back of the intermodal train........then the Amtrak engine crew is done and returns back with power to Union Station.
Class I railroad gets an extra kicker in profit to one of it's intermodal trains, Amtrak still responsible for liability and getting the train to and from intermodal yard and station plus Class I has a say in reducing passenger train costs and attracting more service potentially on their other LD intermodal trains.
One question: what happens if none of the Class I railroads or larger regionals want to place a serious bid on such an operation?
I remember attending the discontinuance proceedings for the "Blue Bird" way back in 1968 or 1969. One of the alternatives put forth by N&W was to attach a coach and sleeping car on the "Road Runner", the overnight Chicago-St. Louis TOFC schedule. The alternative was deemed not feasible due to the added expense of a switch run to bring the passenger cars to the TOFC terminal and the possible delays to the freight train schedule. I'm not sure that the proposal by CMStPnP is very different from that.
Try giving each train two dining cars...under this scenario. Coach passengers get a dining car that provides and serves "fast food" style meals, appropriately priced(to cover costs) with appropriately paid employees. Sleeping car passengers get a dining car that produces and serves "sit-down" style meals, again, appropriately priced(to cover costs) with the current dining car staff.
Or, to put it more simply, just charge the damn price needed to cover your costs, people will pay for good food, regardless of class of passenger.
GERALD L MCFARLANE JR Try giving each train two dining cars...under this scenario. Coach passengers get a dining car that provides and serves "fast food" style meals, appropriately priced(to cover costs) with appropriately paid employees. Sleeping car passengers get a dining car that produces and serves "sit-down" style meals, again, appropriately priced(to cover costs) with the current dining car staff. Or, to put it more simply, just charge the damn price needed to cover your costs, people will pay for good food, regardless of class of passenger.
Amtrak basically does that already, they have the snack area in the lower level of the lounge where they sell many food items below what it costs them to stock them on a moving train.
Then they have the Dining Car and what throws me for a loop here is sometimes the Dining Car is cut in half, with one half being a snack car and the other a full service diner.........seems to me one of the snack areas is a waste of space and drives up the cost of the train more. However I noticed when two snack areas are in existence on the Texas Eagle the crew uses the half of the dining car that is a snack area that remains closed permanently for the whole trip as a break area.
In my view they need to raise prices in both areas. The snack area and the dining car itself BUT the dining car more so. I am not sure when or why Amtrak took the position that selling food should be an onboard charity service BUT that attitude has to go in light of their large deficit.
More or less happening already. There's the dining car with sit-down service. Sleeper passengers are given first dibs. Usally room enough for coach passengers as well, although on leaving LA on the Southwest Chief recently, the first night the dining car was declared sold out once the sleeper passengers made their dinner reservations. Not the case next night.
Then there's the café downstairs in the lounge-sightseer car and there's sometimes an option for coach passengers to get a meal from the dining car at a lower price delivered to their seat (the promotion of this option is quite inconsistent in my experience and could be done better).
So that's 3 options for getting food, at different pricing levels.
GERALD L MCFARLANE JROr, to put it more simply, just charge the damn price needed to cover your costs, people will pay for good food, regardless of class of passenger.
You think passengers will pay $30-50 for a dining experience like that of the early 60s? On the City of Los Angeles 1967, they offered a special charbroiled steak full dinner (alcoholic beverage extra) for $5.75. That converts to $40.82 in 2016 money. Doubtful.
http://streamlinermemories.info/UP/UP67LagunaBeachdinner.pdf
Great site: http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
As an aside point, a former dining car steward (City of Los Angeles) once related that the train hit a wall of snow in Wyoming. The diner started to run out of food. They went to a nearby rancher and used a voucher to buy hogs and other commodities. The crew butchered animals and provided food while they waited for a snow plow to dig them out.
Muralist0221 As an aside point, a former dining car steward (City of Los Angeles) once related that the train hit a wall of snow in Wyoming. The diner started to run out of food. They went to a nearby rancher and used a voucher to buy hogs and other commodities. The crew butchered animals and provided food while they waited for a snow plow to dig them out.
Doubt any Amtrak diner personnel would have the knowledge and/or skills to butcher live food stocks.
schlimm GERALD L MCFARLANE JR Or, to put it more simply, just charge the damn price needed to cover your costs, people will pay for good food, regardless of class of passenger. You think passengers will pay $30-50 for a dining experience like that of the early 60s? On the City of Los Angeles 1967, they offered a special charbroiled steak full dinner (alcoholic beverage extra) for $5.75. That converts to $40.82 in 2016 money. Doubtful. http://streamlinermemories.info/UP/UP67LagunaBeachdinner.pdf Great site: http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/
GERALD L MCFARLANE JR Or, to put it more simply, just charge the damn price needed to cover your costs, people will pay for good food, regardless of class of passenger.
They paid it back then, though. (I had one of those dinners in 1968 on the City of Portland, and it was worth every penny.) Amtrak charges a pretty fair price -- in the $25 vicinity, I think -- for their shoe leather, and even tho my sleeping-car fare includes it, I go with the hot dog or mac and cheese. (And wine, lots of wine.)
I'd cheerfully put another $15 with the $25 to get a decent piece of meat.
CJtrainguy More or less happening already. There's the dining car with sit-down service. Sleeper passengers are given first dibs. Usally room enough for coach passengers as well, although on leaving LA on the Southwest Chief recently, the first night the dining car was declared sold out once the sleeper passengers made their dinner reservations. Not the case next night. Then there's the café downstairs in the lounge-sightseer car and there's sometimes an option for coach passengers to get a meal from the dining car at a lower price delivered to their seat (the promotion of this option is quite inconsistent in my experience and could be done better). So that's 3 options for getting food, at different pricing levels.
I remember back when the Superliners first hit the rails 1979 or 1980....
The lounge had an attendant upstairs making mixed drinks at the bar as well as serving soda and some light snacks. The guy downstairs was more into the light meals and there was a piano down there as well. Thats the last time I remember the Car attendants entering the lounge car and asking for drinks / food for the coach passengers and walking it back to them.
Have to agree with BaltACD on this. Back then there was a real Chef in the Dining car and they knew how to handle butchered meat and also had on board equipment more appropriate for that. The Amtrak downstairs kitchen does not have a lot of the former equipment the earlier diners had like for example a char or coal grill.
My suspicion based on the food is the Amtrak guy in the kitchen is Chef in title only and has none of the formal training you would find in a regular for profit restaurant and I would further venture to guess that beyond the very basics or stray from the recipe cards too much and they are useless. Similar to cooks in the Armed Forces, they can prepare food they were trained on or that is prepackaged but get beyond that into something fancy and your rolling the dice.
dakotafredThey paid it back then, though. (I had one of those dinners in 1968 on the City of Portland, and it was worth every penny.) Amtrak charges a pretty fair price -- in the $25 vicinity, I think -- for their shoe leather, and even tho my sleeping-car fare includes it, I go with the hot dog or mac and cheese. (And wine, lots of wine.) I'd cheerfully put another $15 with the $25 to get a decent piece of meat.
Not sure I fully agree on fair price. $25 is their top of the line menu option and it is not even a decent cut of meat. Steak on a railroad dining car.......if it was me, I would charge $40-45, increasing the size of the portion slightly. Definitely increase the quality and the size of the side dishes. If you notice Amtrak scrimps on the sides as well and they are the cheapest part of the meal.
Filet Mignon with one side, which is yet to be seen or cooked in a Amtrak Diner should be priced $55-60.........$5 extra for the specialized toppings or crowns (mushrooms, blue cheese, etc).
Fish if the served it baked (which they will never do because it takes skill to prep and cook and they are probably afraid of bones), should be fresh, fair sized portion and at a minimum be $20-25.
There should not be a Hamburger, Hot Dog, Chicken Nuggets, Mac & Cheese on the menu as a meal.............thats snack bar food. The fact they sell that cheap crap in the diner tells you Amtrak Food Services is confused about what should be sold where and what their target market should be. Amtrak is just looking at the Dining Car as a food dispenser not as a Dining experience.
Now finish all that and if your paying someone a living wage to be a table server, at least train them for the part, get rid of the rudeness, the 15-20 trips back and forth to serve a table of 4..........and lets see some smiles and nice conversation. Also train them to put the table tickets in all at once. Clear and refresh the table in just 2-3 trips vs 6-7. Small stuff like that which would improve the ambience of the dining car substantially.
I remember one trip on the Capitol Limited I entered the Dining Car and even though the seating was announced over the PA. Dining Car service attendents snapped at me as I walked through the door. "What are you doing here, we ain't ready yet"............really? What happened to "Sir" or other formal means of address?
Thanks all for an interesting stream, but should I judge from the lack of comment that no one sees a role for any sort of experiment with internet-ordered food from local caterers on the Indian model?
The Indian Railways are among the largest and most heavily patronized in the world, so of course they offer economies of scale not practical here. But this service is to be offered at 403 stations, from multiple caterers and does not require really long stops, nor the recreation of the Harvey Houses and the offer includes hot meals in multiple cuisines--not just Subway sandwiches.
Do any of us see any resonance here for the US?
RailvtThanks all for an interesting stream, but should I judge from the lack of comment that no one sees a role for any sort of experiment with internet-ordered food from local caterers on the Indian model?
Personally, yes, I think it is worth at least considering.
I also think it might be at least possible to arrange at least limited dining-car service of more 'upscale' meals that have been sourced and at least prepped by local people 'to Internet order' and then passed to the train crew at a stop shortly before service. This would be particularly applicable to "special order" food (for example strict kosher or GFCF) that would be difficult for a typical commissary and crew to execute properly for a reasonable amount of time and cost.
Wizlish Railvt Thanks all for an interesting stream, but should I judge from the lack of comment that no one sees a role for any sort of experiment with internet-ordered food from local caterers on the Indian model? Personally, yes, I think it is worth at least considering. I also think it might be at least possible to arrange at least limited dining-car service of more 'upscale' meals that have been sourced and at least prepped by local people 'to Internet order' and then passed to the train crew at a stop shortly before service. This would be particularly applicable to "special order" food (for example strict kosher or GFCF) that would be difficult for a typical commissary and crew to execute properly for a reasonable amount of time and cost.
Railvt Thanks all for an interesting stream, but should I judge from the lack of comment that no one sees a role for any sort of experiment with internet-ordered food from local caterers on the Indian model?
Johnny
I sent the last post before I was ready to.
On one trip last year,weI left Salt Lake City about four hours late, and I ate dinner in the diner before we arrived in Sacramento--and when I returned home, we were six or seven hours late arriving in Salt Lake City from Chicago.
I do not see that such a plan should be entertained.
In the past, somebody proposed that all diner food should be outsorced to local sources en route and picked up to serve. This would customize within some range of options, such as a variety of popular ethnic cuisines, such as Tex-Mex, Chinese, Italian, etc. rather than just 'American' as seen on train menus 60 years ago. Times change.
Railvt Thanks all for an interesting stream, but should I judge from the lack of comment that no one sees a role for any sort of experiment with internet-ordered food from local caterers on the Indian model? The Indian Railways are among the largest and most heavily patronized in the world, so of course they offer economies of scale not practical here. But this service is to be offered at 403 stations, from multiple caterers and does not require really long stops, nor the recreation of the Harvey Houses and the offer includes hot meals in multiple cuisines--not just Subway sandwiches. Do any of us see any resonance here for the US? Carl Fowler
It's doable on a mass scale and I thought of this when I had a fast casual restaurant at a mall. I could setup a contract to contract business with a high school kid, he could manage the entire delivery operation. I would discount my sandwiches to his delivery service easily by 20-25%, and he could add a small delivery charge on top which would make his end profitable on a per meal basis as well as increasing my own sales volume using existing labor. The 20-25% off the top of the sandwich would not be a huge sacrifice financially to me but would ensure I got priority over other vendors in case he wanted to apply his delivery service to other food service joints. (there are other firms starting to enter this space like "grub hub" and a few others").
Then you can also expand this to catering as well. Where catering is profitable is it charges on a per head basis instead of per meal. In the case of my product one meal can feed 2-3 people if you buy the large size. So the pricing change with catering from per product to per head makes it very financially lucrative.
With a fast casusal submarine shop. 60% of it's business model should be delivery and catering and only 40% walk-ins on average. However if you notice, most are just doing business with walk-ins only and neglect the other two parts. So there are a lot of underperforming submarine sandwich shops out there which you can take over and make more profitable. As for building the business, it is a long slog upwards to add new business. In the breif 4 months I was in business though, personally, I was able to sign up the local Hyatt, and sold to three other catering engagements. A single catering engagement was worth almost a full day of walk-in traffic profitability wise. Hyatt brought their catering staff into the restaurant to eat to sample the food and would have probably signed a few engagements with us had I not shut down. To get those few sales though I had to knock on a lot of doors and distribute a lot of flyers. Common reaction I got was that they never knew the business was even there (which told me Corp Advertising sucked).
So yes on both a busiess model and financial model this delivery system would work and would turn a profit, you have to pour some money and time into marketing it though. The only problem I see with it is operational.
You know, our 125-year-old format for serving food on the train is kind of tried and true. The problem is not with the format, which is a model of efficiency, but with ignorant Congress people who do not understand it -- probably never having ridden -- and who insist on pinching pennies with Amtrak (so they can be profligate everywhere else).
Most of the alternatives that have been offered, here and other times on the forum, seem to me tortured and fraught with all kinds of potential problems, the most serious of which would be passengers going without food.
Deggesty I sent the last post before I was ready to. On one trip last year,weI left Salt Lake City about four hours late, and I ate dinner in the diner before we arrived in Sacramento--and when I returned home, we were six or seven hours late arriving in Salt Lake City from Chicago. I do not see that such a plan should be entertained.
While that would have been a problem in the 1990's. You can track Amtrak train status on the internet now and even programatically link to it and update another application like food ordering with the Amtrak train progress site. For a 70-100 person order you only need 1.5 to 2 hours advance notice, after it is cooked you can place in a warming oven where it will keep up to a few more hours. Even if you threw all that away and had to recook it a second time from scratch.....with fast casual food your still making a profit with 70-100 clients with 50% waste.
I have heard about concern over late or unpredictable trains.........absolutely a zero issue today with at least a fast casual business. I can call more crew in at a moments notice as well as lay them off, most folks 25 and under are absolutely that flexible with their schedules and take it in stride when they work at a fast food place that the labor force sometimes flexes with unpredictable business. Most of them could care less about showing up for work then being sent home right away.......as long as they get 40 total hours in a week.
dakotafred You know, our 125-year-old format for serving food on the train is kind of tried and true. The problem is not with the format, which is a model of efficiency, but with ignorant Congress people who do not understand it -- probably never having ridden -- and who insist on pinching pennies with Amtrak (so they can be profligate otherwise). Most of the alternatives that have been offered, here and other times on the forum, seem to me tortured and fraught with all kinds of potential problems, the most serious of which would be passengers going without food.
You know, our 125-year-old format for serving food on the train is kind of tried and true. The problem is not with the format, which is a model of efficiency, but with ignorant Congress people who do not understand it -- probably never having ridden -- and who insist on pinching pennies with Amtrak (so they can be profligate otherwise).
How many other 125-year old business models are still used? Amtrak's food service model has been neither a model of efficiency nor good cuisine [with the ossible exception of the Auto-Train]. Why not consider developing the notion CM&StP and others are suggesting?
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