If the coal hauling upgrade had happened a Rochester to Winona passenger train would have better track to go on. Plus I'd guess the track going down into the Mississippi valley would have some great daytime scenery. I once took a long Greyhound type bus ride in Australia in 1985. Aside from using the bathroom, getting up to move around was against the rules. I'd rather ride a train than get sandwiched into a bus seat.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
The C&NW even had two sleepers that were especially built for the overnight service between Chicago and Rochester: there was an exterior door opposite the door of each of two bedrooms so that a stretcher could be carried into each bedroom.
Johnny
North Western had such a service with the "Dakota 400", which later became the "Rochester 400". The service died in 1962 for lack of patronage.
MidlandMike The big draw in Rochester, MN is the Mayo Clinic, which gets patients from across the country. Many fly in via a network of volunteer private pilots. For people coming by train, a route from the SE toward LaCrosse and Chicago would probably be more useful.
The big draw in Rochester, MN is the Mayo Clinic, which gets patients from across the country. Many fly in via a network of volunteer private pilots. For people coming by train, a route from the SE toward LaCrosse and Chicago would probably be more useful.
The C&NW used to do exactly that.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
MSP to Rochester? There are two shuttle services with departures between 5:30 AM & 10 PM. Fares are $29 - $36 one way. They stop at major Rochester hotels, and for an extra $10 - They will have a Rochester taxi meet you when arrive at the hotel and take you to your home if it is in the Rochester city limits! This includes free Wi-Fi as well.
Now, if you want this 'train' they are talking about - They still need to buy ROW and build it, The old CGW main line out of St Paul is long gone. The state funding gave up(Zip Rail) and they are leaving it to a 'private' investor.
I have used the Rochester Airport shuttle service many times to get to MSP - It is not 'Business Club', but the trip only takes an hour...
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
No problem.
My palm slap to my forehead.
BoydMy previous reply on this subject was sarcasm.
Pity you didn't notice that so was mine.
What's the code for the emoticon version of a 'whooooosh!'?
My previous reply on this subject was sarcasm.
BoydI know,,, take a set of rail axles off of a RR right of way weed spraying truck and put them on a Greyhound bus.
That starts out being no more 'high speed' than the original spraying truck was, and goes downhill as you arrange the drive and braking via the only two tires that are accessible (the inside duals on the drive axle). The steering and tag axles will have to be raised up enough to clear any self-guiding frogs and so forth, which means that the lateral and roll stability of the thing is going to be interesting. Special tires may have to be provided as the fundamental issues that made the 'Micheline' railcars non-successful here would still apply -- perhaps dramatically so if all the power and some of the braking for high speed have to go through just those two tires, with heat and perhaps friction conditions between their outer walls and the adjacent duals...
I'm sure by early April, in time for the TIGER VIII grant review, the Velocibus people (who I understand are still smarting over not getting the big contracts for HSB around 2010) will present a way to provide 165-mph drive and suspension to its vehicles. Or say they have.* The most interesting part of this is probably going to involve grade crossings, armed drones, and the use of diverted TSA personnel for safety inspections of vehicles making crossings on the 'random basis but without hint of proscribed profiling' that has worked so well to prevent grade-crossing accidents in the airline industry.
*this references some of our earlier discussions, for example about Duluth, concerning how a certain amount of 'careful gyratory contextual presentation' might be utilized to nose up to the TIGER trough...
schlimm Please explain how such a service makes sense. Duluth itself has a population of only 86,265 and in decline since 1960. Duluth (Twin Ports) MSA has a population of 279,711. The RoW is inadequate; it is paralled by I 35 and there are few communities of any size in between. http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/opinion/our-view/3955686-our-view-train-duluth-when-not-if
Please explain how such a service makes sense. Duluth itself has a population of only 86,265 and in decline since 1960. Duluth (Twin Ports) MSA has a population of 279,711. The RoW is inadequate; it is paralled by I 35 and there are few communities of any size in between.
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/opinion/our-view/3955686-our-view-train-duluth-when-not-if
I agree. Perhaps one train a day if the train is extended to and from Chicago on a schedule opposite of the Empire Builder. This is the key to developing a more enhanced MSP-CHI market.
I know,,, take a set of rail axles off of a RR right of way weed spraying truck and put them on a Greyhound bus.
I understand that there is a study under way for an HSR line beween Twin Cities and Rochester. It is based on the plan being privately funded.
schlimm The population numbers I cited were for the MSA which includes Superior and all other nearby towns. If Minnesota wants a corridor with potential to serve many people, try one to Rochester.
The population numbers I cited were for the MSA which includes Superior and all other nearby towns.
If Minnesota wants a corridor with potential to serve many people, try one to Rochester.
If going to Rochester means a price tag of $300 million or less for MN, then they might consider it. My read of the article is they thought Duluth to Superior was more attainable at $600 million with a 50/50 split with Wisconsin. When you think of it in terms of the larger budget, $300 million over three to four years is nothing for Wisconsin when it's spending $2+ Billion on it's University system annually.
The plan shows stops in both Superior and Duluth.
I will say, if I want to go to Duluth, they'd better NOT dump me in Superior, which is, well, a dump, as well as a pretty long taxi ride.
Euclid It seems that there has always been a backdrop of advocacy for bringing back passenger service from Twin Cities to Duluth. The point seems to be mostly to add passenger rail to Minnesota. So when looking for two points to connect, Twin Cities and Duluth are obvious. The issue of whether or not it would pay for itself is not critical to the proposals, although there is always that premise of “build it and they will come.” I cannot imagine that many would find a practical reason to take the train if it were available. The plan would need to be structured around the train schedule, and would be subject to delays. Although it would take people to downtown Duluth, there are attractions in Duluth that are spread out some distance, which would require secondary transportation. For cars, there are not parking problems in Duluth that could be avoided by taking the train. The road route has a 75 mph speed limit nearly the entire distance, and there is nothing that requires slowing down. You can probably go 80 mph all the way and not risk a ticket. The traffic is never dense enough to require slowing down. The only potential issue with driving is a construction zone, but that can be determined in advance. The only markets that I can see are people who don’t own a car and want to see Duluth; and people who want to experience a train ride.
It's actually Twin Cities to Duluth/Superior. I am pretty sure the project is dead without the discount provided by Wisconsin DOT money. And given that Wisconsin DOT is participating........don't you think it is a little premature to presume the depot will be in downtown Duluth?
I feel the project is being looked at within the context of eventual increased frequencies between Chicago and MSP and not in isolation of that. Wisconsin DOT spent boatloads of money (in the hundreds of millions) upgrading Northwoods airports to accomodate rich folks from Southern Wisconsin and Northern Illinois. Which I would say is a fairly small constituency. They did it not to carry political favor but to expand tourism and tourist spending in the North of Wisconsin which increases land values and taxes up there. That was their logic back in the 1970's to 1990's when they went on a rural airport spending binge back then.
I see the building up of the St. Paul to Duluth / Superior corridor as in the same context. They are not doing it for the pople living there now. They are doing it to attract tourism, companies and people to those two cities, increase land values and collection of taxes......just like the rural airport expansion and upgrade projects earlier.
schlimm As far as metro pairs go, CHI to Rockford has alot more potential than MSP-Duluth. Rockford MSA is 346,360 and the CSA is 447,038 with several population nodes en route (Belvidere, Marengo, Elgin). Blackhawk restoration was planned and work was started. However, CN/IC stalled and backed out on an agreement, the route was switched to UP/CNW west of Elgin and then the Illinois financial mess blew up.
As far as metro pairs go, CHI to Rockford has alot more potential than MSP-Duluth. Rockford MSA is 346,360 and the CSA is 447,038 with several population nodes en route (Belvidere, Marengo, Elgin). Blackhawk restoration was planned and work was started. However, CN/IC stalled and backed out on an agreement, the route was switched to UP/CNW west of Elgin and then the Illinois financial mess blew up.
Chicago to Rockford is not going to get funding from MN or WI.
I do actually think Illiniois will resume the project at some point. I think they should invite a private-public partnership in on some of this stuff to speed it up instead of the go it alone with taxpayer money though........thats what is slowing illinois down. They don't seem to want to experiment like Indiana has with privately run freeways and with open bid on Amtrak routes.
The buses pick up folks in various areas of the TC, some focusing on small thnis groups such as the Vietnamese and Hmong. They then go directly to the casino, this providing one-seat service. A train cannot compete with that. The service to Duluth would depend on the desire of TC folks to go to the Twin Ports as well as vice versa. Seems unlikely.
schlimm The advantage of buses is greater flexibility of routing and scheduling throughout the day and night. Also curb to door service.
The advantage of buses is greater flexibility of routing and scheduling throughout the day and night. Also curb to door service.
schlimm Casinos use chartered buses to bring folks into casinos from the TC for free. There is a huge one in Red Wing but folks don't take the train there, they drive or take the free buses. Unless the casino is right on the RoW, it is unlikely that would generate much traffic.
Casinos use chartered buses to bring folks into casinos from the TC for free. There is a huge one in Red Wing but folks don't take the train there, they drive or take the free buses. Unless the casino is right on the RoW, it is unlikely that would generate much traffic.
MidlandMike dakotafred There is an Indian casino at Hinckley, about midway on the route and popular with Twin Cities people, on which a lot of hopes are pinned for ridership. The tribe may even have promised to help with sponsorship. This is exactly what I remembered. Thanks for confirming my recollection.
dakotafred There is an Indian casino at Hinckley, about midway on the route and popular with Twin Cities people, on which a lot of hopes are pinned for ridership. The tribe may even have promised to help with sponsorship.
There is an Indian casino at Hinckley, about midway on the route and popular with Twin Cities people, on which a lot of hopes are pinned for ridership. The tribe may even have promised to help with sponsorship.
This is exactly what I remembered. Thanks for confirming my recollection.
schlimm MikeF90 I like to see expansion of train travel between large metro areas Two large metro areas NOT currently served are Columbus, OH MSA (1,967,066) and Phoenix MSA (4,489,109).
MikeF90 I like to see expansion of train travel between large metro areas
Two large metro areas NOT currently served are Columbus, OH MSA (1,967,066) and Phoenix MSA (4,489,109).
Two glaring instances -- yet there is no money for correction, even if Amtrak had the initiative to seek it.
There is great disagreement about the proper role of government. Amtrak is one case in which -- looking at support for highways, airports, waterways, other transportation what-have-yous -- and given the ridership support of existing Amtrak services -- I would be in favor of a big outlay, perhaps one-time, to give it a little wiggle room to fill in gaps in the map as above.
I, for one, would rather borrow from China, if necessary, for a tangible public service than for yet more money for the endless entitlement ratholes for the middle class and otherwise. (Two-thirds of the budget and growing.)
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