The item below was in the St.Paul Pioneer Press' Sainted & Tainted column this past Saturday. Is there anyway Amtrak customer service could stop acting like a government agency and more like they need to compete for customers? Just adding more 'never again' people to the declining list of Empire Builder riders.
Tainted
I went to Williston, N.D., to help my daughter move into her new home. I took Amtrak because of the road conditions.
Thirteen hours to get there -- a little behind schedule.
Coming home: 28 hours trapped at the train depot, and on the train. Engine burned; the next engine didn't get there for 10 hours.
Then the trip from hell commenced. No working toilets for over 200 people. No water. They ran out of food. The trash was never cleaned during the entire trip. There was a fight in the aisle between travelers, and the hired help didn't seem to care much.
I called Amtrak asking for a refund. I was told that they did not see any reason to consider a refund to me, or to anyone on that trip.
My first trip on a train in almost 50 years, and it will be my last. What a shame to treat people with limited income, who need the train to travel, with experiences like this one.
Thanks.
Jim Johns, Little Canada
Does anybody remember the fine print that was a part of every public timetable: "Not responsible for any inconvenience due to late trains, missed connections, etc." The complainer sounds like someone who would demand a refund of their airfare when O'Hare is shut down due to a massive blizzard and they have to pay for their own lodging due to cancellations.
The demand for a refund is out of line. The indifference of Amtrak employees, both onboard and customer relations, needs correction.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Engine catching fire and sanitary condition of the train is entirely Amtrak's fault and if he would have pressed harder Amtrak does keep coupons and future discounts ready via their customer service line. My guess is he probably gave up or was not forceful enough on the customer service line. I would have gave them hell until I at least got a coupon.
The onboard service folks should have done a better job working with the other crew of the train to keep it clean and functional.
Now granted the waste tanks could have filled and the toilets are no longer opertaional but C'mon, use your darn cell phone and call back to Amtrak base......whats the cost of a sewage pumper meeting the train at a station stop and resetting the toilets?.......where they also could have dumped bags of garbage as well? A motivated onboard service person would have found a way. Could have purchased boxed lunches as well.....not like there are thousands of people on the train in winter. Empire Builder I presume, that leg of the trip maybe 200 people at the most. Most restaurants can handle that load in an hour with carry out or boxed meals.
So Amtrak, how about you stop the train for another hour since it is already hopelessly delayed and fix the issues?
I rode the Lakeshore Limited last summer from New York to Chicago. In the middle of the night we got stuck on the line behind a freight that had to set out a bad car. That put us over 3 hours behind. By the time we made it to Chicago the delay had grown to over 6 hours. I will note that the train stopped it's usual length of time in Toledo allowing it to be refilled and get toilets working again.
Onboard crew did all they could to keep everyone comfortable and we all got safely to Chicago in the end.
A while after the trip, I contacted Amtrak via email, explaining the facts of the day and the delay scope, asking for some consideration and in a few days was pleased to receive an electronic voucher for most of the ticket cost. Happily using that voucher to pay for part of my next Amtrak trip. Never hurts to ask.
If you act like an ass to customer service type personel, chances are they will treat you like an ass. It you deal with them as a adult in a business like manner in identifying how the service provided did not live up to you expectation, you will probably get some restitution for your inconvience.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
In April 2014 I made a roundtrip from Rhinecliff, NY to Portland/Seattle (by Sleeper).
The trip on the Empire Builder was just after the schedule was extended. However we were still several hours additional leaving Spokane. The sleeper car host purchased boxes of KFC chicken for each person since there was no diner on the Portland train and our late arrival was well beyond the noon hour. An hour later the dining car steward delivered to each rider a Subway sandwich. Both without any requests from passengers
The return Empire Builder was 13 hours late arriving in Chicago (arr c.4am). At no point were there problems on the train (at least in sleepers, didnt observe coach situation), with dining car serving an extra meal, although simplified. At the time the connection between the Builder and the Lakeshore was gaurenteed. We were instructed to go to Customer Services and obtain lodging vouchers. The C.S. staff quickly and politely issued not only vouchers for a 4 star hotel, but taxi vouchers and meal vouchers for the morning.
I don't know if passengers on that Eastbound trip who were not connecting to the Lakeshore requested considerations, but my general observation was the passengers and adapted the the delays as well as they could.
The trip that led to this discussion was poorly handled. Yes the onboard staff should have done more, but the most important thing that did not happen was for other staff to be brought to the train and for arrangements by the new staff and others to handle the bathroom problems and to provide food. The onboard staff was stressed out to the point of not being able to cope with the situation.
I have travelled on almost every Amtrak long distance train (including over 30 trips to Florida) and found the onboard staff to do their jobs well and (with a few exceptions) with polite enthusism.
Back about 1974, we had a similar trip, LA to SF.
Started out on time, 45 minutes late. Spent more time at each stop; rumor had it we were waiting for a VIP who was trying to catch up to us.
Then, out in the 'wilderness', the diner car caught fire. We watched as the fire trucks were stopped on a road, about 300 yeards away, beyond a corn field. Finally, someone in the cab decided to simply uncouple the diner, and continue with the rest of the train, minus the two cars behind the diner. I'd have loved to have had a scanner for that conversation.
We were supposed to get to SF at 4:00pm. We arrived on Oakland at 1:00am. On time, I guess. Amtrack saw no reason to provide transportation from Oakland to SF, despite us having tickets to SF. They finally relented when there was a threat of violence (threats of lawsuits didn't do it). A single bus was procured (for over 75 people) for the trip.
My in-laws, who were in the SF station to pick us up, were still there at past 3:00am.
Yeah, we'll use Amtrack again. Not.
BaltACD If you act like an ass to customer service type personel, chances are they will treat you like an ass. It you deal with them as a adult in a business like manner in identifying how the service provided did not live up to you expectation, you will probably get some restitution for your inconvience.
Agree. The point is to treat others in a civil fashion and ask. This is true with the airlines as well. If you do not ask, you may not get some things such as meal vouchers.
Big Bill Back about 1974, we had a similar trip, LA to SF. Started out on time, 45 minutes late. Spent more time at each stop; rumor had it we were waiting for a VIP who was trying to catch up to us. Then, out in the 'wilderness', the diner car caught fire. We watched as the fire trucks were stopped on a road, about 300 yeards away, beyond a corn field. Finally, someone in the cab decided to simply uncouple the diner, and continue with the rest of the train, minus the two cars behind the diner. I'd have loved to have had a scanner for that conversation. We were supposed to get to SF at 4:00pm. We arrived on Oakland at 1:00am. On time, I guess. Amtrack saw no reason to provide transportation from Oakland to SF, despite us having tickets to SF. They finally relented when there was a threat of violence (threats of lawsuits didn't do it). A single bus was procured (for over 75 people) for the trip. My in-laws, who were in the SF station to pick us up, were still there at past 3:00am. Yeah, we'll use Amtrack again. Not.
Understand the bad taste in your mouth.
3 year olds are such babies!
Now that Amtrak has made it to 45 they might have grown up.
Different strokes for different folks but you might be interested in this from the UK:
https://www.gwr.com/customer-service/refunds-and-compensation/delay-compensation
In the mid-1970's, passengers having awful experiences on board Amtrak were commonplace; I had my share. Over the years things have gradually improved. Nevertheless, about 15 years ago one June, the missus and I took the Three Rivers to Chicago, where we were to transfer to #5 (bedroom) for the cross-country train ride I'd had been yakking about all winter. Incompetence in the yard at Willard that day forced our train to wait in a cornfield for many hours; eventually the crew outlawed. More waiting. We arrived in Chicago some hours after #5 had departed. The missus is not a big Amtrak fan anyway, and thought of our having to take a 48 hour trip in coach was enough to raise my level of concern. The CS rep put us up in a 3 star hotel and gave us food vouchers. When I told her my marriage was imperiled if we had to travel to San Francisco without a bedroom, she asked what she could do. "Fly us to San Francisco," I said. And she did! Within minutes I had 2 airplane tickets from Chicago to San Francisco for the next day, a fine hotel room, a free dinner and, even if we didn't see the Out West from our bedroom window, two extra days in San Francisco! As Ira Gershwin wrote, "Who could ask for anything more?"
The missus has a saying, "Life's too short to take Amtrak," but even she had to give Amtrak great credit for how they dealt with us that day in Chicago. Just don't get her started on other, less wonderful, experiences traveling on Amtrak.
When younger, I took advantage of Amtrak's All Aboard America fare to take some long circle trips that incurred two problems. The first one was when I was going from Chicago to Halifax via the Cardinal to Baltimore, NYC, Toronto, Montreal and returning via Montreal, The Montrealer, and Washington. Great trip except I had reserved a roomette on the sleeper that then operated on the overnight Washington- Boston train that was dropped at NYC Penn Sta and allowed me to sleep until the morning. Then I would take #63 to Toronto and continue to Halifax. After spending my time in Baltimore, I waited at Penn Sta and when the train arrived, I found it only had the Boston sleeper. Crew was sympathetic and let me ride to New Haven where I paid for a fare to take a Metroliner back to NYP and continue my trip. I did not want to arrive in NYP at around 1:30 AM and kill six hours in the station. It took a lot of requests and effort but I did finaly get a voucher for the space charge. They kept saying that they was notified of its discontinuance.
Second experience was on a trip that involved both the Pioneer and the Desert Wind before they were terminated. On the Desert wind segment my Itinerary took me on the DW from Denver to Barstow, thence Thruway bus to Bakersfield, thence a San Joaquin to San Jose. where I would overnight. The DW for some unremembered reason got late and I was worried but the Service Manager said, don't worry, just stay on to LA and we'll get you to to San Jose. And they did! We got into LAX about 5 PM and after over an hour, I was given a voucher for a Southwest 0Airlines flight to San Jose, put on a van that scared the $%@$ out of me as we "flew" (over 75mph) down the freeway to LAX. Got to the terminal and they literaly closed the door as I got on the 7 PM departure for San Jose. They blew a lot of my fare on the plane but got me there. Wish I could still ride those routes.
Sorry to hear about all these problems. I took the Builder in 2003, no problems at all. I took the section to Portland and made a hotel reservation for that night to catch Coast Starlight the following day, because I thought we might be late and a 4 hour window was not much between trains. But we pulled in at 10 am -on the advertised-. But bonus was I was in Portland during annual Rose Fest, got to see parade and tour a navy ship the next day. When we boarded CS, we were told we'd be getting off at Eugene, OR and taking a bus to Klamath Falls because of track work. They gave us box lunch on the train and when we arrived at KF it was 10 pm. Diner was still open for us the sleeping car passengers-so we did not miss a meal and we had wine with dinner, because we had missed the wine tasting. The steward even gave me a small bottle to take along with me.
In 2005, when a friend and I took SW Chief to Grand Canyon, we were 4 hours late arriving at Williams Jct, but shuttle bus was there for us. We had booked a GCR package and the lady at hotel was ready to hand out room cards at 2 am. We lost time due to tornados in KS, we were told winds over 60 mph and train was on slow orders or stop. I guess there was fear of the Superliner cars tipping over. No problems returning home.
When I rode Texas Eagle reroute in 2012 with local railfan group, a terrible storm hit before we arrived at CUS and missed our connection to Champaign. Our leader was on the phone making sure a bus was waiting and it was, along with about 15 other buses for late connections. People who had missed their LD connections were being given vouchers for hotels and meals.
2006- friends and I took train to Springfield, IL and toured the Lincoln Museum. A terrible storm hit but had cleared up by the time our train back to St. L arrived. But we were stopped at Alton, due to downed power lines and a derailment up ahead. This was on the Texas Eagle. Shuttle buses were sent for the crew and I went out to see what was going on. They said they could take anyone just going to St. L which was us, but no announcement had been made. So I wrote Amtrak after we got home and did get refund for ticket from Alton to St. Louis and letter of apology.
We had some crazy experiences years ago on the passenger trains we rode too. We were waiting for cousin from New Orleans to arrive on IC and train was 4 hours late. They had hit a car in MS and some people died, so that held things up. It was 2 am when train finally backed in.
Amtrak has always seemed willing to work with someone who has had a problem, but you have to be polite and understanding. Mom always said "catch more flies with honey than vinegar" and very true.
Sorry to hear of the original poster's trip report. I fear that type of publicity is killing off the Empire Builder. I noticed the recent trains have included only 1 sleeper to Seattle (normally 2) and other limited size. The demand is clearly down and perhaps it is time to kill it off. Remember, there is no reward for the host railroad to see that Amtrak succeeds in fact the opposite may be true. Without Amtrak, BNSF has less to worry about. And since the newspaper article above may be the only thing most read about Amtrak, these may be the nail in the coffin. If you want Amtrak Long Distance trains to continue, you all should ride and support them.
I can recall in the 1960s when if there were weather problems shutting down flights, the train was a dependable alternative. Seems to be the opposite today.
Considering that the railroads no longer have the many section gangs that they had in the sixites (and earlier) it is not surprising that the manpower is no longer available to keep the lines clear when there is a heavy snowfall. We must remember that the gangs not only cleared snow and ice off the rails, they also worked to keep the switch points clear. Even with switch heaters, only so much can be done towards keeping the lines open in a heavy snowfall.
Johnny
Deggesty Considering that the railroads no longer have the many section gangs that they had in the sixites (and earlier) it is not surprising that the manpower is no longer available to keep the lines clear when there is a heavy snowfall. We must remember that the gangs not only cleared snow and ice off the rails, they also worked to keep the switch points clear. Even with switch heaters, only so much can be done towards keeping the lines open in a heavy snowfall.
And exactly how is that progress in the broad sense?
Yes on the customer service front and obtaining satisfaction. You have to be both polite and patient to get results. Most Call Center CSR's are trained that they do not have to deal with abusive language or abusive customers and some even have a green light to hang up on them if they get so.
It always puzzled me the folks that bought GM cars and then would rant to their friends on how things broke down on the car and how they would never buy another GM car again....blah, blah, blah. Only to buy another GM car again in a few years. Anyway, if they directed that wasted energy to the GM customer service line and were more diplomatic, plus if they retained the service records of the car. GM would cut them a check.
I had problems with my Buick LeSabre power windows failing on me. After the third one failed before I hit 60,000 miles. I collected the bills up and called the GM customer service line. At first I got a lecture because I did not buy the extended warranty or electrical systems warranty. To which I replied the car was still fairly new and with only 60,000 miles on it could be considered only halfway to the auto graveyard, the power windows should still work regardless of what warranties I did not buy. She put me on hold. I got a check to cover all the repairs plus 20% extra for the time I spent.
However, even with that great customer service. I never bought another GM car after my follow-on Buick Lucerne. Stuck on Mercedes now, far superior at client service, better quality and fuel mileage and I only have to take it in once a year for oil change or maintence plus they give me a nice loaner car. Best of all I get a fairly substantial discount because I was a Veteran. How ironic is it the Germans give me a bigger discount for being a Veteran than the American Car Manufacturers. I guess we really kicked azz.
schlimm Deggesty Considering that the railroads no longer have the many section gangs that they had in the sixites (and earlier) it is not surprising that the manpower is no longer available to keep the lines clear when there is a heavy snowfall. We must remember that the gangs not only cleared snow and ice off the rails, they also worked to keep the switch points clear. Even with switch heaters, only so much can be done towards keeping the lines open in a heavy snowfall. And exactly how is that progress in the broad sense?
It cost the railroads much, much, much less not to have all those people on the payroll, against the very few days and very few hours that they would be physically helpful (over modern alternatives) at keeping the switches clear enough to be moved.
My armchair thinking when I first started thinking about this issue, at about age 8, was to have a force of folks in rail-equipped trucks like Brandts that would be 'on call' for those times special 'snowfall attention' would be needed. Bring 'em in on contract like Hulcher for wrecks, and let them worry about what to do with the equipment and people at all other times.
There are reasons why that won't work, and probably some more reasons I haven't thought of. But it would be interesting to see if it worked 'enough' to make a positive difference to key areas and key routes...
Profitability vs insolvency. Streamlined costs vs. bloated employment.
Wizlish schlimm Deggesty Considering that the railroads no longer have the many section gangs that they had in the sixites (and earlier) it is not surprising that the manpower is no longer available to keep the lines clear when there is a heavy snowfall. We must remember that the gangs not only cleared snow and ice off the rails, they also worked to keep the switch points clear. Even with switch heaters, only so much can be done towards keeping the lines open in a heavy snowfall. And exactly how is that progress in the broad sense? It cost the railroads much, much, much less not to have all those people on the payroll, against the very few days and very few hours that they would be physically helpful (over modern alternatives) at keeping the switches clear enough to be moved. My armchair thinking when I first started thinking about this issue, at about age 8, was to have a force of folks in rail-equipped trucks like Brandts that would be 'on call' for those times special 'snowfall attention' would be needed. Bring 'em in on contract like Hulcher for wrecks, and let them worry about what to do with the equipment and people at all other times. There are reasons why that won't work, and probably some more reasons I haven't thought of. But it would be interesting to see if it worked 'enough' to make a positive difference to key areas and key routes...
A bright idea, indeed. I'd be interested in hearing some of your reasons it wouldn't work.
I appreciate that it doesn't snow year-around, but surely there are other tasks to keep a contract gang busy on one railroad or another in all seasons. Look at the leg up it could give the rails with their customers -- passenger and freight -- to be able to practically guarantee service no matter the weather thrown at them.
Good thoughts. Looking at the larger picture, the US has eliminated most unskilled manual labor jobs in all sectors over the last 50 years, including section gangs. Why not start something like above that would 'float' and contract to do the many jobs that now are ignored, with the detrimental effects effects we all see? Sort of along the likes of an Uber operation, but with some equipment provided. Just a rambling, unformed thought.
Ugh.....this has been a depressing read.
I have been wanting to take a trip (from Oakland) to NYC for a long time.....never been to New York.
I have contemplated taking the train, but it seems quite a bit more expensive than flying (I would not mind paying 10-15% more) and with what I am reading here, I am not sure I still want to pursue it.
At 55 years of age, MY Midlife Crisis is living in the past. I watch all the videos of passenger tains from the 1930-1950 time frame, and want that kind of ride.
Perhaps I should just check back into 2016 and fly to NYC.?
Kenny, have you looked at Amtrak's website? You can obtain about all of the information you need there. Also, have you considered buying a railpass (look under "Other Travel Options); for a fixed charge for the railfare you can travel quite a bit. Of course, it doees not cover the cost of sleeping accomodations . Once you have determined when you want to travel, you can call Amtrak and make your arrangements.
KERRY, DO TAKE YOUR TRAIN TRIP. NOT INI SUMMER WHEN DEMAND IS HIGH. NOT IN WINTER BECAUSE OF WEATHER DELAYS AND POSSIBLE PROBLEMS. SPRING AND AUTUMN YOU SHOULD ENJOY THE TRIP. AUTUMN MIGHT GIVE YOU A LEAF COLOR DISPLAY YOU WILL REMEMBER.
Kenny: For heaven's sake, do not regard the horror stories as typical. I haven't had ONE on Amtrak since I resumed riding trains about 20 years ago that came CLOSE to some I experienced on the private roads c. 1954-1971. The typical trip has been without mishap and on time. I've never missed a connection.
I will admit I take only one extended trip a year, typically in the Midwest and West, usually in the warmer seasons. I have to drive 100 miles to catch a train.
Your odds, for what sounds like your first trip in years, are pretty good.
Dave's advice about avoiding the winter is good. Summer is fine, except you want to book well ahead for sleeping space. For instance, I booked for this summer back in November already.
Go, man, go! (And don't be tempted by a lower fare on the airlines. It's TRAVEL you have in mind, right?)
OK Guys.....Thanks.
Yeah...Weather/Time of year. I was thinking about September or October would be good.
As far as horror stories.......think of all the Airplane/Airport nightmares people talk about. Air travel (other than travel time saved) has become a major PITA.
I (promise) will give the train a fair shot.
Thanks Again
Kenny: Check into 2016 and take the train.
10000 or so flights cancelled in NYC-Washington-Boston area due to snow. Trains keep running on modified schedule. Just saying. I've been delayed on trains, and I've been stuck in airports sleeping on the floor. Transportation is what it is… and most of the time you get to where you are going on time or reasonably so.
Oakland to NYC sounds like a great journey. Hope to do it one day. I'd probably plan to stay at least one night in Chicago (in case train is late, and because you just can't pass right through that great city).
Later this winter, I'll take the train from Little Rock to get to a conference in Los Angeles and make the return trip via Chicago, finally getting a chance to ride the Southwest Chief.
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