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Amtrak Employees Claimed 40 Hour Work Day

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 3, 2015 8:54 PM

ACY

Hey ------

It wasn't all drudgery.  I was on a happy crew that worked well together.

Very often, we DID sing while we worked.  But not always.Wink

There was a version of Rogers & Hammerstein's "My Favorite Things", which we called "My Least Fav'rite Things."  Discretion prevents me from sharing most of the lyrics, but I'll give you a couple lines:

     CSX Railroad, in all of their wisdom,

     Bought them a modernized, centralized system.

     Now if there's even the slightest snowfall,

     All the trains stop and they don't move at all.

     When the wind blows, when the snow falls, when it starts to rain,

     All of the CSX signals go red, and that's when we stop

     THE TRAIN!

It may be slanderous, and not 100% accurate, but it was fun.

Tom

csx - 'The Fair Weather Line'

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Posted by Wizlish on Friday, July 3, 2015 4:32 PM

And, "laying the miles over his shoulder as a man peels a shaving from a soft board..."

Now, in the darkest night, even as the Purple Emperor said, if you will stand on the bridge across the freightyard, looking down upon the four-track way, at 2:30 A. M., neither before nor after, when the White Moth, that takes the overflow from the Purple Emperor, tears south with her seven vestibuled cream-white cars, you will hear, as the yard-clock makes the half-hour, a far-away sound like the bass of a violoncello, and then, a hundred feet to each word

"With a michnai - ghignai - shtingal! Yah! Yah! Yah!
Ein - zwei - drei - Mutter! Yah! Yah! Yah!
She climb upon der shteeple,
Und she frighten all der people,
Singin' michnai - ghignai - shtingal! Yah! Yah!"

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Posted by wanswheel on Friday, July 3, 2015 3:19 PM

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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, July 3, 2015 12:13 PM

Now we're talking...er....singing!

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by ACY Tom on Friday, July 3, 2015 9:22 AM

Hey ------

It wasn't all drudgery.  I was on a happy crew that worked well together.

Very often, we DID sing while we worked.  But not always.Wink

There was a version of Rogers & Hammerstein's "My Favorite Things", which we called "My Least Fav'rite Things."  Discretion prevents me from sharing most of the lyrics, but I'll give you a couple lines:

     CSX Railroad, in all of their wisdom,

     Bought them a modernized, centralized system.

     Now if there's even the slightest snowfall,

     All the trains stop and they don't move at all.

     When the wind blows, when the snow falls, when it starts to rain,

     All of the CSX signals go red, and that's when we stop

     THE TRAIN!

It may be slanderous, and not 100% accurate, but it was fun.

Tom

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Posted by Wizlish on Friday, July 3, 2015 3:53 AM

CMStPnP

Maybe one day in Amtrak's future?....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMItxWb9VNE

Too much to hope for?

Well, hey, let's get started:

"I love the toilet smells

The oil-train delays

All the new baggage cars

And forty-hour days

(Boom-te=yadda-boom-te-yadda...)"

 

But yeah, I'm really with you on the 'maybe, someday, Amtrak will have similar enthusiasm and make similar promotional videos..."  Heck, if they asked Kelly Lynch politely, he'd probably help them make it for free...

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, July 3, 2015 3:13 AM

Maybe one day in Amtrak's future?....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMItxWb9VNE

Too much to hope for?

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, July 2, 2015 8:49 PM

Whenever organizations are 'presenting their case' for changing work rules - the worst possible example is always presented as if it were a everyday commonplace occurrence - on BOTH SIDES of the argument.  Nothing to see here - move on!

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Posted by schlimm on Thursday, July 2, 2015 8:44 PM

Wizlish

I think, in fairness to Mr. Milenkovic, that he was phrasing it as a rhetorical question, and not intending to criticize what you said or call you out in a more personal, or direct, sense.  At least, that's how I understood it.

 

 

 
I have no idea of what he intended or to whom he referred, though it did not appear to be a rhetorical question as he then gave a corrected version of what he felt should be asked.
 
[from Google]  "A rhetorical question is a question that you ask without expecting an answer. The question might be one that does not have an answer. It might also be one that has an obvious answer but you have asked the question to make a point, to persuade or for literary effect.   Examples:  
  • Is the Pope Catholic?
  • Is rain wet?
  • Do you want to be a big failure for the rest of your life?
  • Does a bear poop in the woods?

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Posted by Wizlish on Thursday, July 2, 2015 4:54 PM

I think, in fairness to Mr. Milenkovic, that he was phrasing it as a rhetorical question, and not intending to criticize what you said or call you out in a more personal, or direct, sense.  At least, that's how I understood it.

 

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Posted by schlimm on Thursday, July 2, 2015 3:56 PM

Paul Milenkovic
As to the question, no, the demand, "Is any Amtrak employee worthy of $1500 for a day's activities"

You put a  statement in quotes to make some sort of point.  Whom were you quoting?

I actually said, "Exactly.  I would hope nobody here will rationalize away a system that paid a food service attendant ~$1500 for one day's work." and "There is NO possible rational excuse for paying a food service attendant $1500 for one day's work other than ludicrous, out-of-date contract work rules." and "Frankly, any contract that allows this  [Total for one day for one attendant = $1459.47] is an obscene abuse of the taxpayers."  

I never dealt with worthiness nor do I believe there was anything illegal.  However, I still believe that Amtrak management is at fault for having in place a system in which matters as above occur.

BTW, on an unrelated note, the information I passed on was from the OIG report, not from the article. 

 

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, July 2, 2015 2:27 PM

Paul Milenkovic

 

 
CMStPnP
 
ACY

CMSTPnP:

I don't think there's anything in your post of this morning with which I would disagree.  The fact is, the conditions you describe are completely different from the actual conditions under which Amtrak O.B.S. personnel work.  I can't address conditions in other crafts.  I understand several of those contracts are more generous.  Amtrak Management has shown a strong resistance to any changes that would create a better working environment for O.B.S. employees, and that isn't likely to change.  The general rule has been "long hours; short sleep" since long before I ever worked there.  Now that I've retired, it's up to those who are still there to continue the struggle for something better.

Tom

 

Thats sad about Amtrak Management and we are not talking a lot of money here but a huge difference in employee life.

 

 

 

 

The sense I get about the 40-hour work day is not that this employee in any way filed a fraudulent time card.  It could be that this employee "gamed the system" within the existing rules to pile on the hours like the proverbial legal billing record. 

But it seems likely that this instance was a "perfect storm" of the work rules breaking in the employees favor to allow this.  As to the question, no, the demand, "Is any Amtrak employee worthy of $1500 for a day's activities", the sense I get is that the question should be "how is this $1500 in pay balanced against this employee or other Amtrak employees getting the short-end of the employee contract, especially in unpaid and mandated "rest time" or "deadhead time" or time-away-from-home for the benefit and convenience of the employer?

A more capable and enlightened Amtrak management could probably avoid such large payouts as well as run a more humane system for their onboard-service (OBS) employees with respect to their unpaid time.  I think whether Amtrak and its unions and employees could do better should be discussed in places like this.

But from other comments, many with Amtrak work experience, count me as not being outraged, either at the employee, their union, or at Amtrak management.  Providing people on trains to serve passengers many miles and surface-transportation hours away from their homes, and coming up with a system that pays a fair day's wage for a day's labor while at the same time not abusing workers is a challenging problem I never tried to figure out.

 

This all sounds sensible to me.  Both Amtrak and the unions have both eyes wide open when they negotiate this stuff.  Too often, it seems, they wind up focused on  sticking it too each other rather than sticking up for their constituencies (passengers and employees).

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by ACY Tom on Thursday, July 2, 2015 1:23 PM

Well said.Thumbs Up

Tom

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Thursday, July 2, 2015 12:41 PM

CMStPnP
 
ACY

CMSTPnP:

I don't think there's anything in your post of this morning with which I would disagree.  The fact is, the conditions you describe are completely different from the actual conditions under which Amtrak O.B.S. personnel work.  I can't address conditions in other crafts.  I understand several of those contracts are more generous.  Amtrak Management has shown a strong resistance to any changes that would create a better working environment for O.B.S. employees, and that isn't likely to change.  The general rule has been "long hours; short sleep" since long before I ever worked there.  Now that I've retired, it's up to those who are still there to continue the struggle for something better.

Tom

 

Thats sad about Amtrak Management and we are not talking a lot of money here but a huge difference in employee life.

 

 

The sense I get about the 40-hour work day is not that this employee in any way filed a fraudulent time card.  It could be that this employee "gamed the system" within the existing rules to pile on the hours like the proverbial legal billing record. 

But it seems likely that this instance was a "perfect storm" of the work rules breaking in the employees favor to allow this.  As to the question, no, the demand, "Is any Amtrak employee worthy of $1500 for a day's activities", the sense I get is that the question should be "how is this $1500 in pay balanced against this employee or other Amtrak employees getting the short-end of the employee contract, especially in unpaid and mandated "rest time" or "deadhead time" or time-away-from-home for the benefit and convenience of the employer?

A more capable and enlightened Amtrak management could probably avoid such large payouts as well as run a more humane system for their onboard-service (OBS) employees with respect to their unpaid time.  I think whether Amtrak and its unions and employees could do better should be discussed in places like this.

But from other comments, many with Amtrak work experience, count me as not being outraged, either at the employee, their union, or at Amtrak management.  Providing people on trains to serve passengers many miles and surface-transportation hours away from their homes, and coming up with a system that pays a fair day's wage for a day's labor while at the same time not abusing workers is a challenging problem I never tried to figure out.

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

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Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, July 2, 2015 10:42 AM

BaltACD
Have to keep that stock of pretzels and peanuts up to snuff!

Well on American Airlines there is a lot more to the stock than pretzels and peanuts.    American prides itself on the wide range of beverages it carries both non-alcholic and alcholic.    Also, their First Class Domestic meals are still fairly good.....and they usually offer a choice of menu.

A tip, First Class Domestic for American is pretty cheap if you buy the tickets in advance via the Internet.    I am sure the other airlines are competitive but I found American to be the cheapest on advance First Class ticket purchases.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, July 2, 2015 7:27 AM

Contract covered crafts are non-exempt and are entitled to overtime in accordance with the contract.  The goal of the administration's action is to put a brake on the abuse of putting employees on salary to reduce overtime by use of a very broad definition of management positions.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, July 1, 2015 11:19 PM

CMStPnP

Update on Amtrak Labor Agreements for OBS.   Looks like Obama Administration is going to try and pass a law where anyone that works over 40 hours even if salaried (up to a Salary point of 45-50K) gets time and a half pay.    Just a proposal now but it might alleviate some of the Amtrak contract issues currently, if it passes the Congress.

What contract covered craft is making less than $50K full time?

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, July 1, 2015 9:46 PM

Update on Amtrak Labor Agreements for OBS.   Looks like Obama Administration is going to try and pass a law where anyone that works over 40 hours even if salaried (up to a Salary point of 45-50K) gets time and a half pay.    Just a proposal now but it might alleviate some of the Amtrak contract issues currently, if it passes the Congress.

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Posted by CPRcst on Wednesday, July 1, 2015 11:49 AM

Via travels through vast areas with no cell phone coverage, the hand held devices you reference use cellular frequencies. Most of BC Ferries trips are within cell coverage. Also Via is even more cash-strapped than Amtrak.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, June 26, 2015 9:31 PM

CMStPnP
 
schlimm
Flight attendants have to check all inventory and the sales records.   On international flights it involves several meals and snacks plus the duty-free stuff.  Probably more to do than many Amtrak food persons, what with being on-call for up to 300 demanding passengers.

 

 

I will also add that flight attendents now use a handheld point of sales system that is light years ahead of paper and carbon copies that Amtrak is using on most long distance trains (when I rode one last a few years ago).    Hopefully, Amtrak has updated in the last few years with the Dining Car point of sale.

BTW, the newer Boeing planes like the 787 can transmit data to the airport before arriving and one might presume that can include food and beverage needs for the next departure.

 

Amtrak is ahead of VIA when it comes to charging a purchase on board. Last September, when I was traveling in Canada, VIA was still using the system whereby an impression is taken of your charge card--and I was using a card which did not have raised numerals on it everywhere else (I pay no currency exchange fee when using that card in Canada); one steward did write the number on the charge slip, but all others insisted that I use a card with raised numerals. Even BC Ferries personnel used a handheld device, even when we were miles away from any town, and I saw the same almost everywhere I went. Now, every time that I charge the cost of what I buy from Amtrak, my card is run through a reader, and I get a printed receipt.

Johnny

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, June 26, 2015 7:42 PM

ACY

CMSTPnP:

I don't think there's anything in your post of this morning with which I would disagree.  The fact is, the conditions you describe are completely different from the actual conditions under which Amtrak O.B.S. personnel work.  I can't address conditions in other crafts.  I understand several of those contracts are more generous.  Amtrak Management has shown a strong resistance to any changes that would create a better working environment for O.B.S. employees, and that isn't likely to change.  The general rule has been "long hours; short sleep" since long before I ever worked there.  Now that I've retired, it's up to those who are still there to continue the struggle for something better.

Tom

Thats sad about Amtrak Management and we are not talking a lot of money here but a huge difference in employee life.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, June 26, 2015 7:40 PM

schlimm
Flight attendants have to check all inventory and the sales records.   On international flights it involves several meals and snacks plus the duty-free stuff.  Probably more to do than many Amtrak food persons, what with being on-call for up to 300 demanding passengers.

 

I will also add that flight attendents now use a handheld point of sales system that is light years ahead of paper and carbon copies that Amtrak is using on most long distance trains (when I rode one last a few years ago).    Hopefully, Amtrak has updated in the last few years with the Dining Car point of sale.

BTW, the newer Boeing planes like the 787 can transmit data to the airport before arriving and one might presume that can include food and beverage needs for the next departure.

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Posted by ACY Tom on Thursday, June 25, 2015 1:49 PM

CMSTPnP:

I don't think there's anything in your post of this morning with which I would disagree.  The fact is, the conditions you describe are completely different from the actual conditions under which Amtrak O.B.S. personnel work.  I can't address conditions in other crafts.  I understand several of those contracts are more generous.  Amtrak Management has shown a strong resistance to any changes that would create a better working environment for O.B.S. employees, and that isn't likely to change.  The general rule has been "long hours; short sleep" since long before I ever worked there.  Now that I've retired, it's up to those who are still there to continue the struggle for something better.

Tom

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Posted by schlimm on Thursday, June 25, 2015 12:00 PM

BaltACD

 

 
Deggesty
schlimm

Perhaps Amtrak should take a look at how airlines deal with compensation for non-flying time.   As I recall flight attendants are not on the clock until the plane pulls from the gate and off once it reaches the gate at destination.  Layovers overnight (or even longer for some international flights) are also off the clock, but with a good accomodation allowance.

Do flight attendants have to check stock before and after? I doubt it.

 

 

Have to keep that stock of pretzels and peanuts up to snuff!

 

Flight attendants have to check all inventory and the sales records.   On international flights it involves several meals and snacks plus the duty-free stuff.  Probably more to do than many Amtrak food persons, what with being on-call for up to 300 demanding passengers.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, June 25, 2015 11:46 AM

Deggesty
schlimm

Perhaps Amtrak should take a look at how airlines deal with compensation for non-flying time.   As I recall flight attendants are not on the clock until the plane pulls from the gate and off once it reaches the gate at destination.  Layovers overnight (or even longer for some international flights) are also off the clock, but with a good accomodation allowance.

Do flight attendants have to check stock before and after? I doubt it.

Have to keep that stock of pretzels and peanuts up to snuff!

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, June 25, 2015 11:12 AM

schlimm

Perhaps Amtrak should take a look at how airlines deal with compensation for non-flying time.   As I recall flight attendants are not on the clock until the plane pulls from the gate and off once it reaches the gate at destination.  Layovers overnight (or even longer for some international flights) are also off the clock, but with a good accomodation allowance.

 

Do flight attendants have to check stock before and after? I doubt it.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, June 25, 2015 10:08 AM

ACY,

So as the market heats up for Technical Consulting people.....

My last firm did pay time and a half for working over 40 hours even though we were Salary and he wrote that into the client contract that the client pays for it.    Very surprising how many clients when they know about the penalty make sure you only work 40 hours a week.

Schlimm mentioned nice accomodations.    IBM and the bigger consulting companies will tell a client " These are our agreed on lodging rates for your city when you sign a contract with us you agree to them".     Had several cheap IBM clients try to stick me in a Motel 6 or some other flea bag place and all I had to do was point to that verbage in the contract.

My last consulting company allowed employees to drink company paid for Beer on Friday afternoons.   Big liability there but it was used for recruiting.

IBM will grant you comp time for working on a Holiday or being called in off a vacation for emergency and it is usually at a 2 for 1 vs 1 for 1 basis.   Which is nice.

Most consulting firms base the annual bonus they give out (most give bonus' still) on profit sharing in part or how the company does performance wise.    I think that is something Amtrak should try and base it on Train performance that the train crews service.

Anyway, point of the larger post is that without the union and with growing competition in the IT industry I get similar benefits as if I were in a union.     Just for competitive reasons not union contract reasons.

On the IT side we get paid for weather cancellations of work.   We also get paid if say we are on a government contract and Newt Gingrinch shuts the government down.   So I think in this respect Amtrak should adopt that as well.    Acts of God as they are called should be no fault and the employees should not be penalized for them, IMO.    So I agree that the Amtrak contracts need modernization because on the benefit side your missing out on some benefits that the professional IT side gets.

Also, when I ran my restaurant and it closed for weather, I still paid the employees.    If it closed due to equipment malfunction, I would trim the staff but still keep a core of paid employees on the payroll for that day or those hours.   It's just stupid to use those issues as a reason to cut costs.

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Posted by schlimm on Thursday, June 25, 2015 9:16 AM

Perhaps Amtrak should take a look at how airlines deal with compensation for non-flying time.   As I recall flight attendants are not on the clock until the plane pulls from the gate and off once it reaches the gate at destination.  Layovers overnight (or even longer for some international flights) are also off the clock, but with a good accomodation allowance.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, June 25, 2015 7:08 AM

Remember - those with an agenda - will develop 'facts' (even if they have to invent them), data and annectodes maximize their position and make the opposition, by turns, seem to be money grubbing schemers where the one extreme individual is catagorized as being everyone involved.

We have all heard of the two hour run that gets a full days pay - what doesn't get reported is that many more runs spend 12 or more hours trying to traverse the same route as that 'two hour run'.  Priority runs get priority handling - there are only one or two PRIORITY trains on a territory - the other trains on the territory spend a lot of time waiting on the PRIORITY trains before they get their opportunity to run.

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