This thread will deal exclusively to what if any political actions / inaction that will come from the PHL accident.
Schumer blasts Boehner over statements about Amtrak funding.
http://www.northjersey.com/news/house-panel-to-hold-amtrak-hearing-schumer-blasts-boehner-1.1335848
It appears that there will be plenty of back biting, name calling, blame, finger pointing, etc as to causes of the accident.
The lack of completion of ACSES in the NEC due to lack of funds, foot dragging by the FCC, FRA, etc will also be in play.
The above link is just a sample of what is happening and will happen in the future.
Hope other posters will find examples.
blue streak 1The lack of completion of ACSES in the NEC due to lack of funds, foot dragging by the FCC, FRA, etc will also be in play.
V. Payne brought up a very interesting point in another thread. Amtrak waited to request 'spectrum' for the radio portion until 2011 (carefully designing the system between the 2008 'mandate' and the filing with the FCC to ensure the spectrum was close to the frequencies freight railroads would be using, for interworkability). At least some of the chosen frequencies were in use for a different purpose (ship to shore communications) and Amtrak filed for a waiver from some of the FCC requirements in place for the use of that spectrum. There was strong objection on a number of grounds to those waivers at the time, leading (as noted) to Amtrak not being given functional access to the radio it needed. Amtrak apparently revised its filing extensively (in part to overcome the objections to the form of its 2011 request) and the FCC granted the necessary waivers very quickly when that was done. Unfortunately not quickly enough for the system to be finished out and brought live before ... this happened.
I don't think there is actual 'blame' to be assigned here, although I would need to see the actual text of the Amtrak 2011 waiver request to see what the actual problems with its language were. The 2014 request was so effective a 'fix' that two of the firms that opposed the 2011 request were actively supporting the waivers requested. It is weirdly difficult to find the actual text of this waiver request (Jan 3, 2011). On the FCC's Web site, hard links to the public comment request come back 'request not found' (but I was able to find a document with the links still there; you can download the .pdf here:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-11-322A1.pdf
(Someone's masters thesis or PhD dissertation might likely be written about what changed in the Great Spectrum Allocation Scheme between the beginning of the recession in 2008 and now, with this specific issue as something of an example.)
I confess I had thought there was positive train stop for overspeed in cases of fixed right-of-way restrictions even in the original (1920s) coded system. That could be done quite simply, it seems to me, with appropriate code injection into insulated sections of rail close to the fixed restrictions -- Frankford Junction curve clearly being one of the most severe restrictions, the trackage around Zoo tower being another. That there was no speed restriction of this kind in place, 15 years into the 21st Century, on what is nominally the most important and fastest stretch of passenger railroad in the United States, is astounding to me.
The saddest thing is that this issue will be spun out of the 'right' context, and likely turned into a blamefest or witch hunt (especially when as seems likely, the damages will exceed Amtrak's $200M insurance cap).
blue streak 1Schumer blasts Boehner over statements about Amtrak funding. http://www.northjersey.com/news/house-panel-to-hold-amtrak-hearing-schumer-blasts-boehner-1.1335848
I see that Chuck and 'Near Miss Dick' are back doing what they do so well. Is there actually any hard evidence that lack of funding is the proximate cause of ACSES not being implemented properly?
I'd like to think that one result of this tragedy would be more Congressional funding of ACSES and PTC completion. Do I actually expect this to happen? No. Am I worried that this will become something that Congressional Republicans seize upon as being a cheap political football -- and come to oppose as such? I worry yes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2015/05/15/gop-on-defensive-over-charges-that-its-underfunded-amtrak/
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/16/us/politics/wreck-adds-fuel-to-debate-on-amtrak-funding.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Somewhat related and very interesting piece by Frank Wilner over at Railway Age.
http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/blogs/frank-n-wilner/better-rail-safety-buck-stops-with-the-senate.html
Buslist Somewhat related and very interesting piece by Frank Wilner over at Railway Age. http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/blogs/frank-n-wilner/better-rail-safety-buck-stops-with-the-senate.html
Johnny
BuslistSomewhat related and very interesting piece by Frank Wilner over at Railway Age. http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/blogs/frank-n-wilner/better-rail-safety-buck-stops-with-the-senate.html
It's a little ironic that Wilner himself appears to lack the 'engineering' credentials he mentions as essential to the FRA Administrator's position. But that does not stop him from commenting extensively (and as an 'expert' according to Railway Age) on a number of technical matters -- probably correctly.
The issue for me is not that 'political appointees' are being placed in policy-making positions. It is that those appointees are not receiving the necessary advice and being given the appropriate briefings to come to understand the technical issues correctly.
It doesn't take more than a few days to be brought up to speed on what ECP can and cannot do. On the other hand, if all that exists is pro or con propaganda, it's not surprising that FRA comes up with cockamamie ideas on what ECP actually does, or how it actually improves safety in the case of HHFTs.
Whatever happened to the idea of a 'liberal arts education' being in large part the study of how to get into, research, and understand a new field of study -- rather than just learning what other people think, and balancing their opinions, or conducting retrospective or statistical studies and thinking that substitutes for actual critical thinking? My father said it was a mistake when four-year college education became 'high school plus two years' up to the beginning of junior year, and then 'grad school minus two years' for the remaining two. He was being sarcastic, of course, but there do seem to be an awful lot of people doing an awful lot of noncritical thinking when they form their opinions... and they ought to know better.
Where are the Walter Lippmanns of our contemporary society? Where are the people who are even trying?
Now the FRA is taking pot shots at congress. It is getting nasty.
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/05/rollout_of_technology_to_automatically_slow_trains_delayed_by_congressional_inaction_says_dot.html#incart_2box_nj-homepage-featured
It reminds me of Nero fideling while Rome burned. The best politicians money can buy.
blue streak 1Now the FRA is taking pot shots at congress. It is getting nasty. http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/05/rollout_of_technology_to_automatically_slow_trains_delayed_by_congressional_inaction_says_dot.html#incart_2box_nj-homepage-featured
We must be reading two different stories, or they've edited since you saw it.
This story is the FRA complaining that Congress isn't acting quick enough to extend the deadline on mandatory PTC. That is precisely the thing so many pundits on this Forum have been castigating Congress for not doing; now FRA does it and they get it in the neck. Where is FRA's take on this issue supposed to be 'getting nasty'?
Something I find interesting is one of the stated reasons FRA supports the extension of time: it will enhance safety by allowing railroads (and Amtrak) to spend some of the money that would otherwise go to rapid (and in some respects still effectively unattainable) activation of PTC on infrastructure improvements instead.
Here is Senate bill 605, the extension bill from McConnell's side:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/650?q={%22search%22%3A[%22Extend+deadline+for+rail+safety%22]}
Wizlish blue streak 1 Now the FRA is taking pot shots at congress. It is getting nasty. http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/05/rollout_of_technology_to_automatically_slow_trains_delayed_by_congressional_inaction_says_dot.html#incart_2box_nj-homepage-featured We must be reading two different stories, or they've edited since you saw it. This story is the FRA complaining that Congress isn't acting quick enough to extend the deadline on mandatory PTC. That is precisely the thing so many pundits on this Forum have been castigating Congress for not doing; now FRA does it and they get it in the neck. Where is FRA's take on this issue supposed to be 'getting nasty'? Something I find interesting is one of the stated reasons FRA supports the extension of time: it will enhance safety by allowing railroads (and Amtrak) to spend some of the money that would otherwise go to rapid (and in some respects still effectively unattainable) activation of PTC on infrastructure improvements instead. Here is Senate bill 605, the extension bill from McConnell's side: https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/650?q={%22search%22%3A[%22Extend+deadline+for+rail+safety%22]}
blue streak 1 Now the FRA is taking pot shots at congress. It is getting nasty. http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/05/rollout_of_technology_to_automatically_slow_trains_delayed_by_congressional_inaction_says_dot.html#incart_2box_nj-homepage-featured
Athough in the article the FRA also castigated Congress for not providing additional funding to implement PTC, it was hardly a "pot shot" which in this context means: "A criticism made without careful thought and aimed at a handy target for attack." In this case the criticism was carefully considered and the target was the deserving one.
Wizlish I confess I had thought there was positive train stop for overspeed in cases of fixed right-of-way restrictions even in the original (1920s) coded system.
I confess I had thought there was positive train stop for overspeed in cases of fixed right-of-way restrictions even in the original (1920s) coded system.
Automatic Train Stop (ATS) of that era worked in conjunction with block signal systems both automatic and manual. It had nothing to do with train speed. I'd have to do some research to be sure but I believe it didn't, of itself, initiated an emergency brake application. More likely it triggered an in-cab alert (Audio and/or visual) when a restrictive stop signal was passed.
Mark
ATS did (and does, in a few locations where it is still in use) stop the train if it passed a stop signal. Systems either worked off the 'rapid transit style' trip or an inductive electric current in IIATS.
In regards to the Railway Age article, the FRA has more than 900 authorized "heads". Wrap your mind around that for just a bit. Can you legislate experience at the top? Many City positions require Professional Engineers by statue, but commonly local politicians just ignore the requirements and then there is nobody to press the case. I don't see why Congress would do anything different should such a statue exist and they won't enact such standards in my view anytime soon.
House Speaker Boehner seemed to blame the relative funding levels in the FY 2016 bill on not having a large enough coalition, which seems to be a side reference to lobbyist power. Quite honestly, both sides only look at power politics at the higher level positions, with a few exceptions. The people nominated for high level agencies seem to serve to only advance power politics by appealing to groups instead of policy effectiveness.
As to the PTC frequencies, Congress should have outlined an explicit procedure in the PTC legislation to condemn a certain frequency from the frequency "investors" instead of supposing that the Railroads were going to have to hunt for the frequencies.
Wizlish (Someone's masters thesis or PhD dissertation might likely be written about what changed in the Great Spectrum Allocation Scheme between the beginning of the recession in 2008 and now, with this specific issue as something of an example.)
One name "LightSquared".
I'd be willing to bet that the folks at the FCC were so worried how the LightSquared fiasco would turn out that they didn't want to go anywhere near allowing someone to use spectrum for any purposes other than the one the spectrum was initially allocated for.
- Erik
To develop PTC one must have radio frequencies for train/system communication. To get radio frequencies one must apply to the FCC. The FCC does far more than dole out frequencies, it now micro manages the installation of radio equipment. When you apply for new spectrum you must include information on the antenna and radio equipment, where and when it is to be installed. To do that, you must work thru the details of where to put all the radio equipment. To do that, you must go to each township/city/county/reservation/state and get a building permit. To do that, you must have a plan for each site. With thousands of sites under construction and multiple layers of government (I forgot National Park Service, State DNR, ...) it has taken years to go thru the morass of permits. And once you get a permit, you must complete a construction document telling what you did for each site.
Add one more complexity: the railroad radio system is administered by the AAR adding another layer of complexity. Congress could streamline this system,but most likely they will continue to add addtional layers of "oversight" to "streamline" this bureaucracy. The FCC funding has been cut to the point they are closing all but their central office.
And we wonder why things move so slowly!
The idea that the media foist on the public about PTC is that the railroads just go down the the Signal Store and buy X number of PTC kits and it is a done deal.
That is so far from the realities as to be beyond laughable and well into commitable.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Full service tomorrow ( Monday ) Good for Amtrak. Probably better to be early than late ( original Tuesday statement )
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Alert_C&pagename=am/AM_Alert_C/Alerts_Popup&cid=1251628184602
“The safety of our passengers and crew remains our number one priority. Our infrastructure repairs have been made with the utmost care and emphasis on infrastructure integrity including complete compliance with Federal Railroad Administration directives,” said Amtrak President & CEO Joe Boardman. “Amtrak staff and crew have been working around the clock to repair the infrastructure necessary to restore service for all the passengers who travel along the Northeast Corridor.”
Effective with departures from Philadelphia at 5:53 a.m. (Train 110) and New York City at 5:30 a.m. (Train 111), all Amtrak Acela Express, Northeast Regional and other services resume. Travel in this portion of the corridor had been suspended since Tuesday evening, May 12.
Passengers are encouraged to use Amtrak.com and its smartphone mobile apps for schedules, reservations and eTicketing in addition to calling 800-USA-RAIL. QuikTrak® kiosks at Amtrak stations will also be available to print boarding documents, make reservations and purchases using credit or debit cards.
Passengers with travel plans can confirm their train's status, change their plans or review refund information using a range of tools – including Amtrak.com, smartphone apps or by calling 800-USA-RAIL. Service Alerts, Passenger Notices and other announcements are posted at Amtrak.com/alerts.
blue streak 1 This thread will deal exclusively to what if any political actions / inaction that will come from the PHL accident. Schumer blasts Boehner over statements about Amtrak funding. http://www.northjersey.com/news/house-panel-to-hold-amtrak-hearing-schumer-blasts-boehner-1.1335848 It appears that there will be plenty of back biting, name calling, blame, finger pointing, etc as to causes of the accident. The lack of completion of ACSES in the NEC due to lack of funds, foot dragging by the FCC, FRA, etc will also be in play. The above link is just a sample of what is happening and will happen in the future. Hope other posters will find examples.
No examples, but my take is that the politicians are breathing a big sigh of relief. Any push to get a bill passed to extend the PTC deadline is now DOA. They can rest on their laurels. They are the ones who passed the bill requiring PTC. That makes them heros! (as they can spin it....)
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
A hole in the line has opened up! Amtrak needs to take the ball and run throught it!
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_AMTRAK_CRASH_THE_BROKEN_CORRIDOR?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
The conversation has turned to "what else can go wrong" and "what else isn't up to date". A huge chance to make lemonade...
oltmannd A hole in the line has opened up! Amtrak needs to take the ball and run throught it! http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_AMTRAK_CRASH_THE_BROKEN_CORRIDOR?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT The conversation has turned to "what else can go wrong" and "what else isn't up to date". A huge chance to make lemonade...
The article simply points out the ugly truth. Our busiest and most advanced corridor has an inadequate, aged, even antique infrastructure, some of which is well over 100 years old.
"Half of the route's 1,000 bridges are around a century old. Not all are at the end of their useful lives, but at current funding levels, it would take 300 years to replace all of them, according to the Northeast Corridor Commission of transportation officials. A 105-year-old bridge over New Jersey's Hackensack River, the Portal Bridge, wouldn't close for 45 minutes in February after it opened for a tugboat. Plans call for a pair of replacement bridges. The first one will cost $940 million. There are 10 such "historic moveable bridges" along the corridor. In Connecticut, officials are working on a plan to replace a swinging bridge over the Norwalk River. It was built in 1896. Last year, after some needed equipment changes, the bridge got jammed, twice, at rush hour while trying to close. The computer that operates the bridge is from the 1980s. Replacing the bridge, he said, could cost $650 million. Connecticut has three other bridges built in 1904 and 1905 that the state would like to replace soon, Bernick said. In Baltimore, trains pass through a 1.4-mile tunnel built in 1873 - one so narrow, decrepit and leak-prone that speeds are limited to 30 mph. With such chokepoints, the journey between Boston and Washington takes at least seven hours. Trains connecting major cities in France can cover a longer distance in less than half the time." We are beginning to look more and more like some LDC (least-developed country).
schlimmThe article simply points out the ugly truth. Our busiest and most advanced corridor has an inadequate, aged, even antique infrastructure, some of which is well over 100 years old.
Yep. But now, it's news. Boardman told Congress all this stuff. Now he has to say it all again, now that someone's actually listening. There is a real chance to sway public opinion into political action.
wanswheel I don’t remember a time when the topic of railroads was in the news more often than it has been lately. The New York Times is all over it, of course, and today with an op-ed article. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/18/opinion/our-trouble-with-trains.html?_r=0
A totally fact free op ed loaded with political lies. Worse than a waste of newsprint and ink.
Mac McCulloch
PNWRMNM wanswheel I don’t remember a time when the topic of railroads was in the news more often than it has been lately. The New York Times is all over it, of course, and today with an op-ed article. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/18/opinion/our-trouble-with-trains.html?_r=0 A totally fact free op ed loaded with political lies. Worse than a waste of newsprint and ink. Mac McCulloch
In your opinion. White, the author of this opinion-editorial article, is a distinguished professor at Stanford very familiar with US railroads on a broad level. What are the non-facts and political lies, in your opinion?
schlimm PNWRMNM wanswheel I don’t remember a time when the topic of railroads was in the news more often than it has been lately. The New York Times is all over it, of course, and today with an op-ed article. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/18/opinion/our-trouble-with-trains.html?_r=0 A totally fact free op ed loaded with political lies. Worse than a waste of newsprint and ink. Mac McCulloch In your opinion. White, the author of this opinion-editorial article, is a distinguished professor at Stanford very familiar with US railroads on a broad level. What are the non-facts and political lies, in your opinion?
here's one quote that is way off the mark!
What the critics and proponents of subsidies both ignore is that they benefit not only passengers but also the historically subsidized freight railroads, which have been allowed to shed their public responsibilities to provide safe passenger traffic while keeping their profits. If anything positive can come out of this horrible accident, it will be a public recognition that our expectations, and current funding of Amtrak, are not only unrealistic but also dangerous.
Where exactly are these historical subsidies to the freight railroads?
As a railroad professional I found this piece offensive.
oltmannd schlimm The article simply points out the ugly truth. Our busiest and most advanced corridor has an inadequate, aged, even antique infrastructure, some of which is well over 100 years old. Yep. But now, it's news. Boardman told Congress all this stuff. Now he has to say it all again, now that someone's actually listening. There is a real chance to sway public opinion into political action.
schlimm The article simply points out the ugly truth. Our busiest and most advanced corridor has an inadequate, aged, even antique infrastructure, some of which is well over 100 years old.
Hope springs eternal. One would think the Congress, POTUS and the public would be ashamed of the aged and inadequate passenger rail system.
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