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Montrealer less unlikely

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Montrealer less unlikely
Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:52 AM

Montrealer would need U.S. and Canadian legislators to ratify the new border agreement.

http://www.commonsnews.org/site/site05/story.php?articleno=11866&page=1#.VQrHRGc5CM8

Senator Leahy's press release

http://www.leahy.senate.gov/press/leahy-hails-us-canada-pre-clearance-agreement-that-brings-closer-the-goal-of-restoring-vermont-to-montreal-passenger-rail-service

Dept. of Homeland Security press release

http://www.dhs.gov/news/2015/03/16/united-states-and-canada-sign-preclearance-agreement

Excerpt from Vermont Public Radio

http://digital.vpr.net/post/step-closer-train-service-vermont-montreal

The agreement marks a long-awaited starting point for the effort to begin in earnest to restore service to Montreal. This year marks 20 years since the Amtrak Montrealer stopped running.

However, many hurdles remain. Most fall to the state – not the federal government – to resolve.

“These are complicated issues. A lot of them will require funding and the state of Vermont is currently going through some funding and financial difficulties,” says Deputy Secretary of Transportation Chris Cole.

Cole says the remaining issues include upgrading the tracks north of the border, securing train access to the Victoria Bridge across the St. Lawrence River, resolving union labor issues and paying the cost of actually operating the train.

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, March 19, 2015 10:47 AM

Hopefully, it would be an extension of the existing schedule, not a reversion to the old, overnight schedule.  A train is not going to capture the Montreal to NY business traveller...

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, March 19, 2015 1:19 PM

For reasons that are not clear to me (a regular rider of the Montrealer/Vermonter in its several incarnations) the overnight train was quite popular despite the challenges in keeping it running.  As late as 1995 it drew 3-4 Amfleet II coaches, a food service car and two 10-6 sleepers.  It was also a favorite place for Amtrak to try out special equipment, including "Le Pub" and slumbercoaches.

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Posted by bill613a on Thursday, March 19, 2015 5:25 PM

rcdrye

For reasons that are not clear to me (a regular rider of the Montrealer/Vermonter in its several incarnations) the overnight train was quite popular despite the challenges in keeping it running.  As late as 1995 it drew 3-4 Amfleet II coaches, a food service car and two 10-6 sleepers.  It was also a favorite place for Amtrak to try out special equipment, including "Le Pub" and slumbercoaches.

 

Since the state of Vermont is footing the bill they will probably opt for the current schedule and the current equipment would not have to be upgraded (sleepers) if a MONTREALER like service was tried.

The extension should draw significant ridership from Montreal to Vermont.

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Posted by NKP guy on Friday, March 20, 2015 6:22 PM

I have never in my life been to Vermont, although since I was a lad reading about Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain boys I have wanted to.  It's the only state east of the Mississippi I haven't toured.  But by gosh, if this train gets to running (once more) between NYC and Montreal I will make a special effort to ride it.  Vermont needs access if it's to be a better tourist-attracting state.  I hope I'm right in wishing for Vermont's proposed Montrealer the same success that's accrued to Maine's support of the Downeaster.

Personal note:  I was on the platform at New Haven that night in 1972 (I believe) when Amtrak's first Montrealer arrived from Grand Central.  I will never forget the wonderful sounds that GG-1 made as it entered the station precincts; it even tooted its funny-sounding horn!  This was a very luxurious train, complete with a dining car, lounge, and sleepers!

I missed my chance to ride to Vermont then; I wish Vermont the best of luck.  I hope to see you soon!

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Posted by bill613a on Friday, March 20, 2015 10:35 PM

NKP guy

I have never in my life been to Vermont, although since I was a lad reading about Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain boys I have wanted to.  It's the only state east of the Mississippi I haven't toured.  But by gosh, if this train gets to running (once more) between NYC and Montreal I will make a special effort to ride it.  Vermont needs access if it's to be a better tourist-attracting state.  I hope I'm right in wishing for Vermont's proposed Montrealer the same success that's accrued to Maine's support of the Downeaster.

Personal note:  I was on the platform at New Haven that night in 1972 (I believe) when Amtrak's first Montrealer arrived from Grand Central.  I will never forget the wonderful sounds that GG-1 made as it entered the station precincts; it even tooted its funny-sounding horn!  This was a very luxurious train, complete with a dining car, lounge, and sleepers!

I missed my chance to ride to Vermont then; I wish Vermont the best of luck.  I hope to see you soon!

 

NKP guy

I have never in my life been to Vermont, although since I was a lad reading about Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain boys I have wanted to.  It's the only state east of the Mississippi I haven't toured.  But by gosh, if this train gets to running (once more) between NYC and Montreal I will make a special effort to ride it.  Vermont needs access if it's to be a better tourist-attracting state.  I hope I'm right in wishing for Vermont's proposed Montrealer the same success that's accrued to Maine's support of the Downeaster.

Personal note:  I was on the platform at New Haven that night in 1972 (I believe) when Amtrak's first Montrealer arrived from Grand Central.  I will never forget the wonderful sounds that GG-1 made as it entered the station precincts; it even tooted its funny-sounding horn!  This was a very luxurious train, complete with a dining car, lounge, and sleepers!

I missed my chance to ride to Vermont then; I wish Vermont the best of luck.  I hope to see you soon!

 The GG-1 would have been arriving from Penn Station.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Friday, March 20, 2015 10:45 PM

Amtrak' over night montrealer had a great schedule. You departed DC late in the day, diner in the dinner and you could step off on the heart of Vermont's ski country after an early breakfast. Great over night ski train for the folks in the northeast. Good connections for the silver meoter out of Florida. The train offered day time travel from Vermont to Montreal.

The train was was at times a party train, the lounge car had a " pub " feeling to it.

It was a great way to start a ski trip.

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Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, March 21, 2015 6:44 PM
 
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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, March 21, 2015 10:00 PM

The Montrealer is shorter than 750 miles, so it is a corridor train.  The states are not goung to underwrite the extra costs of a sleeper train that passes thru their state in the wee hours of the AM.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Saturday, March 21, 2015 10:18 PM

Depending on the schedule and the route, an over night train did and can service the needs of Vermont. One of keys to the train success was pulling passengers from all points south of NYC on the NEC. This not only adds to the viability of the train but enhances tourism for all concerned.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, March 21, 2015 10:53 PM

Whether the train would be popular of not is besides the point.  I just don't see any of the NEC states to start paying for trains, or Conn. and Mass. to pay for trains in the middle of the night, and VT seems to have indicated they want a daylight train.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Saturday, March 21, 2015 11:58 PM

I hope Vermont is successful with any additional train service it decide on. Just don't refer to it as the montrealer, since historically it was the was- Mon over night train.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Sunday, March 22, 2015 12:57 AM

I hope Vermont is successful with any additional train service it decide on. Just don't refer to it as the montrealer, since historically it was the was- Mon over night train.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 22, 2015 2:19 AM

Vermonters may have referred to it as the Montrealer Night Train, but classically it was the The Montrealer northbound, and The Washingtonian south bound. Under both Amtrak revivals it was simiply The Montrealer, even though officially The Washingtonian southbound.    It should be scheduled, at least in the winter, so the overnight portion is between NYCity and Bellows Falls, so the ski areas are served in the morning and the NEC in the evening.   That should work in the summer for tourist travel too.   I would see a Washington 6:45 pm departure as a regular regional, a New York 10:30 pm departure, New Haven around midnight, Bellows Falls about 6AM, and a noon arrival in Montreal.   Returning a 6pm departure from Montreal, midnight from Bellows Falls, 6AM arrival in NY and around 10AM in Washington.   This should serve Vermont very well, as well as Western New Hampshire.   If Mt. Holyoke and Northhampton get poor service, this should be remedied by extending one of the Springfield shuttles two stops north.  

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Posted by wanswheel on Sunday, March 22, 2015 10:43 AM

I like the Montrealer because my grandfather Joe MacDonald (1881-1971) drove it, and because my father Joe MacDonald (1914-1978) thought up the idea for Amtrak to run it. Here's an old article about my father's friend, Jim Ullman.

Mike MacDonald
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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, March 22, 2015 12:48 PM

Other than the short section from the U.S./Canadian border to the wye at Cantic QC, the entire line has been upgraded. From Cantic north the line was/would be the same as the one used by the Adirondack, so any upgrades for either route would benefit both.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, March 22, 2015 10:15 PM

daveklepper

... I would see a Washington 6:45 pm departure as a regular regional, a New York 10:30 pm departure, New Haven around midnight, Bellows Falls about 6AM, and a noon arrival in Montreal.   Returning a 6pm departure from Montreal, midnight from Bellows Falls, 6AM arrival in NY and around 10AM in Washington.   This should serve Vermont very well, as well as Western New Hampshire.   If Mt. Holyoke and Northhampton get poor service, this should be remedied by extending one of the Springfield shuttles two stops north.  

 

As if Mass. didn't spend enough on reconstruction the Conn. River route, they will now pay more for a sleeper train to serve that portion of the route in he wee hours of the AM.  Of course they will spend even more for another extended shuttle to serve their stations at a time of day that people might actuall use the service.

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Posted by northeaster on Monday, March 23, 2015 10:09 AM

I lived in Vermont in the late 1960's and worked to restore this train with letters, etc., including a special trip to visit with our Senator George Aiken. It was thrilling to be at White River Junction station for her first trip. Before this time, I believe it was Vermont Life Insurance Company in Montpelier, VT which was a heavy user of this train to get its people back and forth to NYC & WDC and they liked the sleepers for this reason. If restored to the pre Amtrak schedule, perhaps there are significant numbers of business types who would use it for similar reasons. I have met many business travelers on Amtrak trains and VIA who like to use those trains which allow them restful arrivals in downtown stations...it is the lack of frequency and dreadful arrival/departure times which limit such use.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Monday, March 23, 2015 11:23 AM

Northeaster your spot on about the advantages of the former overnight montrealer. It made as much or more sense than a daylight train because of the convenient times in vt/ DC/ NYC and montreal.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:06 PM

Amtrak tried an overnight Montrealer, and has moved on.  Recently and ongoing, they have instead put their money into upgrading track speed, capacity and/or reliability over the entire route.  With these improvements the transit time between NY and VT will be in the neighborhood of 4 hours.  Hardly much time for 40 winks.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:31 AM

I live a long rock throw from the Vermonter's route and have been riding it and the Montrealer since 1973.  There's no question that a day train can and does work on this route, but the overnight train was considered very successful as a core route train until the costs of the Canadian portion skyrocketed in the late 1990s.  Even the long detour route via New London from 1987 to 1995 was very well patronized, with the sleepers (usually two 10-6s) often sold out. I would venture that even a coach-only overnight train a la 66-67 would be well patronised.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Friday, March 27, 2015 11:05 PM

Rc think your onto something.

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Posted by pajrr on Saturday, March 28, 2015 3:49 AM

I rode the Montrealer several times from NJ to both Vermont and Montreal. As an overnight train it was great. On one trip I boarded at Newark, NJ had a cozy sleeper and arrived in St. Albans Vermont the following morning all refreshed and ready to spend the day railfanning the Central Vermont Rwy. I had gotten permission to railfan in the yard and engine facility and after a memorable day of railfanning I had a nice bed all the way home. I left on a Friday night after work and arrived back home on Sunday morning.

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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, March 30, 2016 9:55 AM

Excerpt from Department of Homeland Security press release, Mar. 15

Canada and the United States intend to further strengthen our relationship and enhance our mutual security, prosperity, and economic competitiveness. To that end, we are pursuing a comprehensive approach to preclearance.  Preclearance strengthens economic competitiveness by expediting the flow of legitimate travel and trade while ensuring perimeter security and border integrity.

Canada and the United States signed the Agreement on Land, Rail, Marine, and Air Transport Preclearance on March 16, 2015.  On March 10, 2016, our two countries announced our intention to support the legislation necessary to bring that Agreement into force.  In the United States, the necessary provisions were introduced in the Promoting Travel, Commerce, and National Security Act of 2016 (S. 2612/H.R. 4657), introduced on March 1, 2016.  The Government of Canada intends to introduce the necessary legislation in the Spring of 2016.

 

Excerpt from The Daily News, Mar. 20

A bipartisan bill before members of Congress designed to ease cross-border travel received the endorsement of Canada’s new head of state.

While meeting with President Barack Obama in the White House earlier this month, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau signaled his support of legislation titled the Promoting Travel, Commerce and National Security Act of 2016.

 

Excerpt from Burlington Free Press, Mar. 29

Amtrak's Vermonter train could resume passenger service to Montreal within three years, lawmakers were told Tuesday morning.

“The stars are aligned, and I think we are going to go as fast as we possibly can,” said Brian Searles, Vermont's former transportation secretary who now works as a consultant on the cross-border train project…

"We think everybody is poised and ready for passage of this legislation," Searles said, noting that Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., has led the bill in Congress.

With legislative approval in hand, a "highly speculative" timeline would require 12 months of planning and permitting and 24 months of construction, for a total of three years, Searles said.

Members of the House Transportation Committee chuckled at the optimistic estimate, but Searles listed reasons for hope.

 

 

 

 

My sister Rosey and our beautiful late mother Bea at St. Albans on Oct. 13, 1978

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/2990.jpg

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Posted by nyc#25 on Wednesday, March 30, 2016 2:05 PM

 I agree with Robert Willison.  The overnight schedule was the perfect

way for me to travel from Philadelphia to Vermont points and Montreal.

It would be great to have it again.

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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Wednesday, March 30, 2016 2:30 PM

Did this train go thru Willmitatic and New London at one time?

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Wednesday, March 30, 2016 4:01 PM

Amen.

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