mikewilsonI agree. These trainsets should be activated for additional runs ... like those mentioned.
The current Heartland Flyer equipment departs Fort Worth at 5:25 p.m. and arrives in Oklahoma City at 9:23 p.m.
If the train were extended to Tulsa, which is approximately 106 miles from Oklahoma City, it probably would not arrive there until after 11 p.m. Most people are not interested in riding a once a day train that arrives at their destination late at night.
Southbound the train departs Oklahoma City at 8:25 a.m. and arrives in Fort Worth at 12:23 if it is on time. To get to Oklahoma City for a departure near its current schedule, the train would have to depart Tulsa around 7:00 a.m.
After the passengers have departed the train, it is moved to a area south of the Intermodal Transportation Center, where it is cleaned and restocked.
If the train were extended to Dallas, it would take about an hour to run to Dallas and an hour to run back to Fort Worth. In addition, especially if only one locomotive was used, the train would have to be turned in Dallas or a cab control car would have to be used for a push/pull operation. Running to Dallas would make for a very tight schedule.
Paul of Covington 106 passengers is what--three busloads? Wouldn't that be less costly? Express service would probably offer comparable travel time. And you could stagger the times to, say, a half hour apart to be more convenient to more people.
106 passengers is what--three busloads? Wouldn't that be less costly? Express service would probably offer comparable travel time. And you could stagger the times to, say, a half hour apart to be more convenient to more people.
An Oklahoma City Terminus I don't think was the end goal of restoring the train. The end goal was Kansas City from what I read from other states North of Texas.
Have no clue what the former "Lone Star" carried Kansas City to Fort Worth, apparently the states North of Texas think it is worthwhile because they keep proposing the restoration along the route to Kansas City. I think they are preoccupied with the Southwest Chief financing and I don't see them going to Kansas City anytime soon.
Personally, I could care less about the Heartland Flyer but I think Amtrak is missing a pretty large opportunity for funding by just parking the two trainsets at each end of the line for the hours that they do. I think at the Fort Worth end they could institute express service to Dallas over TRE. On the Kansas City end they could probably extend it to Tulsa, OK. Without a huge increase in subsidy at either end but with an increase in passengers and market reach.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Probably the same numbers the railroads were looking at in the 50's and 60's. The same numbers that led to Amtrak to begin with.
Sam1 I missed a key point re: the losses incurred by the Heartland Flyer and the combined Amtrak/state support required in FY14. Ticket revenues were approximately $2 million in FY14 and expenses were approximately $9.2 million, leaving a deficit of $7.2 million, which would have been covered by the states and Amtrak. These numbers get close to the numbers reported in the Gazzette.
I missed a key point re: the losses incurred by the Heartland Flyer and the combined Amtrak/state support required in FY14.
Ticket revenues were approximately $2 million in FY14 and expenses were approximately $9.2 million, leaving a deficit of $7.2 million, which would have been covered by the states and Amtrak. These numbers get close to the numbers reported in the Gazzette.
Most of my rail travel is on railpasses which, for a fixed sum, allow so many legs in a fixed time. I wonder if the total revenue is allocated proportionately to each leg.
Johnny
solar Why are the costs increasing so much ? Or are they just been allocated differently?
Why are the costs increasing so much ? Or are they just been allocated differently?
The states have been required to kick-in more to keep their state supported trains running.
In FY09 state supported train revenue was $157.4 million. In FY14 it was $238.5 million, an increase of 51.6 per cent. The FY14 state operating support ($238.5 million) increased from $187.4 million in FY13 or 27.3 per cent.
In addition to the operating support, the states kicked in $61.2 million in FY14 for capital payments compared to $29.1 million in FY10, an increase of 110 per cent. In FY13 the state capital payments were $474.4 million, reflecting a one time cost shift from Amtrak to the states for the state supported trains.
The states have to pick up the entire operating deficit of the train. Amtrak used to pick up a portion.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Kinda my point, a regional passenger service being advocated by some may not work as well as national service.
Hey I got no dog in this fight. If it is neither a national or state priority then the service needs to be discontinued.
ROBERT WILLISON Looks like the heartland is a bad example of how regional service might work opposed to a national system . its amazing that Texas and Oklahoma is arguing over a few million to sustain the service.
Looks like the heartland is a bad example of how regional service might work opposed to a national system . its amazing that Texas and Oklahoma is arguing over a few million to sustain the service.
In FY14 the Heartland Flyer lost $1.9 million before depreciation and interest. If my numbers for depreciation and interest are correct - they are based on the cost of the equipment and its service lives, which I got from a seemingly authoriative source, the total loss was $2.1 million.
For FY15, according to Amtrak's budget, the estimated fully allocated loss for the Flyer is $3.1 million. For FY16 the estimated loss is $5.2 million. These numbers get closer to the numbers shown in the Oklahoma Gazzette and may be the ones referred to in the article.
Ridership on the Heartland Flyer declined from 87,873 in FY12 to 81,346 in FY13 and 77,861 in FY14. According to Amtrak's budgets, the projected ridership for FY15 is 85,800. For FY16 it is 83,760.
Texas is a comparatively low tax state. But its debt burden is growing at a faster clip than its population and inflation, as per the figures shown in the next paragraph.
Between 1992 and 2010 the combined growth in population and inflation, according to the Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts, was 121 per cent. Over the same period school taxes increased 164 per cent; city taxes increased 192 per cent; county taxes increased 229 per cent; and special district taxes (hospitals, community colleges, etc.) increased 263 per cent.
According to the Tax Foundations's State Tax Facts and Figures, Table 36, in 2012 Texas state debt per capita was 45th in the nation. But when local debt is added to the pot, as per Table 37 of the same publication, the total state tax burden places Texas in 12th place.
Texas is 25th in the nation for per capita income, as per the U.S. Census Bureau, as well as Table 38 of the Facts and Figures. However, this number is skewed significantly by the relatively high incomes in DFW, Houston, Austin, and Midland. In many parts of the state the per capital income is as much as 15 to 20 per cent below the national averages.
When the total tax burden is taken into consideration, Texans have reason to be concerned, especially given that their average median 2009 - 2013 household income is roughly three per cent below the national median. This means that Texans, on average, have less money to service their growing state debt burden.
So what seems like a squabble over a few million dollars for the Heartland Flyer, when put in perspective, at least from a Texas point of view, becomes an issue. Texas has a lot of pressing needs. The Heartland Flyer is way down the list of priorities, if in fact it is even on the list.
Hardly amazing that Oklahoma should raise an eyebrow at a 37-percent increase, year over year, to its contribution to a once-a-day 206-mile service. What would you say to a similar increase in your property taxes or utility bill?
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