Why doesn't Amtrak have service to Montauk?

[zkr123]

Why has amtrak not had service to Montauk?

[Deggesty]

Basically, the Long Island did not ask to join Amtrak, but continued, and continues, to provide service to Montauk and several other destinations on Long Island.

[henry6]

First and foremost the LIRR is a commuter railroad considering all their services commuter and not long distance nor inter city.  As such thier equipment, schedules, and customer base are so different from Amtrak's that it doesn't fit Amtrak's busniess program.  Second, the LIRR is owned and operated by the New York Metropolitan Transit Authority and not aprivateenterprise (Governor Nelson Rockefeller had the State take control back in the early 60s).  (The PRR relenquished control of the LIRR in1950 when the LIRR filed for bankruptcy.)

[Dragoman]

But wouldn't it be interesting to have a few Northeast Regionals to/from Washington and Philadelphia run through Penn Station and on to the Hamptons?  Especially maybe Sunday night/Monday morning to "town", and Friday nights out to the Hamptons ... ?

[henry6]

The single track wouldn't be able to handle the traffic....they already have too much congestion and not enough money. They've improved the signal system, fixed the bridges, did a lot of track work, use Bilevels and have added more trains Thursday evenings through Monday mornings and still get jammed up because of too many passengers. Sounds great, doesn't it? But it is also so seasonal that it is not worth putting more money into it. Plus, it is very parochial; I don't think there is a national market. My only suggestion to them would be to improve the North Fork track and increase service which could alleviate some South Fork traffic...for some reason, going back to WWII, I've never seen much service to Greenport.

[aricat]

Amtrak, at its creation, was not to operate ANY train service deemed commuter. That definition was less than 100 miles was considered commuter.The Long Island Railroad operations of less than 100 miles from New York City would be considered commuter under the law that created Amtrak. Ironically Penn Central might have been forced to operate all New York to Philadelphia intercity trains it operated because New York was less than 100 miles from Philadelphia. Sensibility prevailed and Amtrak operated trains between New York and Philadelphia and Chicago and Milwaukee after May 1st 1971, among others. As it has done in Boston; Amtrak could contract to operate trains for a commuter authority using Amtrak crews but not Amtrak equipment.

[oltmannd]

Dragoman

But wouldn't it be interesting to have a few Northeast Regionals to/from Washington and Philadelphia run through Penn Station and on to the Hamptons?  Especially maybe Sunday night/Monday morning to "town", and Friday nights out to the Hamptons ... ?

Amtrak did try something similar to Cape Cod a number of years ago...

Also, Amtrak service to Atlantic City from Springfield MA and Richmond VA...

[D.Carleton]

Back when the Empire Connection was being planned there was some consideration to originate/terminate some trains at Jamaica to establish a convenient service from the island to the state capitol. The idea never really caught on.

[henry6]

Some things sound or look good but in practicality do not. Running trains because you can or because as fan's we'd love to see it does not mean it is a good idea. However, instead of deadheading equipment backwards to some yard why not let equipment run through...Philadelphia to New Haven is an excellent concept...promoted as a one seat, one ticket ride but not having to take equipment twenty or thirty miles back only to have bring it back to NYP later in the day reaps benefits because the train is earning money instead of holding rails in place. It other words, it has to be a service but also has to be rationalized for bottom lines.

[daveklepper]

TheLIRR and PRR did at one time have a  through Pittsburgh - Montauk sleeper, and up to WWII there were through summer Philly - Montauk parlor cars.   Amtrak doesn't serve lots of places.   They never considered serving any part of Long Island because the LIRR was serving the Island already.   Amtrak began serving locations which were served by Private Railroads that joined the Amtrak plan.  The LIRR did not and neither did any of the other State-owned railroad systems of the time.

[henry6]

The PRR did that as part of the reason they coveted and took over the LIRR. It was service for their Main Line executives and friends to have access to The Hamptons.

[timz]

daveklepper

 through Pittsburgh - Montauk sleeper

Anyone got a timetable showing that? When was it?

[henry6]

Probably difficult to find as it was most likely seasonal for one thing and then depended upon who they had either management or shipper in Pittsburgh they wanted to impress or assure accommodations. Will be interesting to see what shows up.

[henry6]

HOWEVER FROM WIKOPEDIA: Sunrise Special (1922–1942) from Pittsburgh to Montauk via Penn Station, New York, joint PRR and LIRR train that operated during the summer, eastbound on Fridays and westbound Mondays. During 1926 summer season trains were run daily. After 1932 there was an additional eastbound trip on Thursdays. Complete first class train from 1932 to 1937.[13]

[wanswheel]

http://www.arrts-arrchives.com/sunrisespl.html

[henry6]

Wanswheel always comes through! Thanks...

[daveklepper]

Probably, if you check the schedules closely, you may see that the train between Pittsburgh and New York was really part of a regular Pittsburgh-NY train with a year-round different name, much like the IC's Magnnolia Star and Panama Limited were coach and sleeper in the same train.   I am not certain of this, but there is a high probability, given the expected ridership, and the information that I learned much earlier in life.  But remember in those days, the LIRR service to Montauk included regular dining cars!  At least in the summer season.

[henry6]

The LIRR even today is aware of the importance of its Montauk traffic. While the old parlor cars are gone, there is special attention for the Friday afternoon train one seat non stop ride form Penn Sta to Westhampton with extra fare at seat services. This in addition to more trains to and from Montauk Friday through Monday morning during the summer months. And despite more trains, more cars, Bilevel cars, etc., trains are delayed by huge passenger loads. The railroad cannot do more than it is right now given the number of crews, train sets, and single tracking east of Babylon. Yet the demand grows.

[Eddie Sand]

But wouldn't it be interesting to have a few Northeast Regionals to/from Washington and Philadelphia run through Penn Station and on to the Hamptons?  Especially maybe Sunday night/Monday morning to "town", and Friday nights out to the Hamptons ... ?

Sure, but the problem here is that everybody  envisions a service built around his or her sepcific wants ..., and the passenger network that  existed before the highways and airlines took most of the business is just not flexible enough to accommodate them, particularly when business travel is an impossibility on most Amtrak routes, and demand is buiit around a summer-season peak, and there's insufficient equipmet to run additional trains ... etc, etc, etc

[daveklepper]

Admittedly a one-seat ride is preferable and will draw more customers than one that requires changing trains.   But the connection between Amtrak and LIRR at Penn isn't difficult, suits current travel patterns and densities, and the LIRR already has all the traffic it can handle on Friday and Sunday evenings on the single-track Montauk line.