Without writing a book, this is all covered in PRIIA sections 214 & 217. A couple of highlights:
"...if the award is made to a rail carrier other than Amtrak, require Amtrak to provide access to its reservation system, stations, and facilities directly related to operations to any rail carrier or rail carriers awarded a contract under this section..."
"If a State desires to select or selects an entity other than Amtrak to provide services required for the operation of an intercity passenger train route described in section 24102(5)(D) or 24702 of title 49, United States Code, the State may make an agreement with Amtrak to use facilities and equipment of, or have services provided by, Amtrak under terms agreed to by the State and Amtrak to enable the State to utilize an entity other than Amtrak to provide services required for operation of the route."
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The contractor is going to have to jump through a lot of hoops with the owning railroads, the STB, etc. before he can actually take over the service. After all is said and done, I don't think that anything will really change.
Is there anything in the legislation that requires a freight railroad to give another provider the same charges as they give or gave Amtrak?
Then Amtrak has a huge competitive advantage on bidding to provide the service. This is unlike commuter operations where, today, usually the commuter authority owns the physical plant.
Just to be clear, it would be the state under PRIIA that would be negotiating with the railroad and third parties to operate their train. Basically the state looks at what they are paying under the formula derived from PRIIA section 209. The state solicits interest from third parties to see if they can in whole or in part get a better deal on some or all of what they are paying now. Everything is on the table: equipment, on-board service, maintenance, et. al. In the case of Chicago-Indy, it is (as best as I can tell) an Amtrak legacy line still paying the reduced rate (three to five cents per train mile if I remember correctly). If a third party can save money over Amtrak whilst paying the higher mileage rate then they have a chance. Amtrak will still be remunerated for access to the reservation system. A state may choose to acquire its own equipment and contract with Amtrak for operations (see North Carolina). After a meeting I went to a few years ago it was very clear that the sharks (Keolis, Herzog, Veolia, etc.) are in the water and they want a piece of the action. How far is Indiana willing to go?
Have been waiting for someone to propose NICTD take over the Hoosier. Some of our routing experts probably come up with a workable route ?
This map is a good start because Chicago has three underutilized stations--two of which actually apply to a rerouted Hoosier.
Millennium Station: The connection is already in place if another operator provides service. A potential problem is if an electric engine is a must. If it is, then, the new operator could build another station where engine switching takes place. Otherwise, there's...
LaSalle Street Station: An all-diesel route would make this the Hoosier's new northern home as another alternative but a connection would be required (yet doable).
Transfers to trains serving Union Station would be handled by either IDOT or MWHSR and should be included in the ticket.
Possible scenarios for Amtrak if it loses the Hoosier to another operator: 1. Continue hauling Superliners and other equipment to Beech Grove on days the Cardinal doesn't operate (#850 & #851 would then be taken out of the reservations system). 2. Put the surplus equipment on the Cardinal and run #50 earlier out of Union Station. 3. Equipment is hauled at some other time or only hauled on an as needed basis. 4. #850 & #851 are renamed the Cardinal and converted to express service, dropping the four intermediate stops.
If the new operator overcomes the various track woes and adds frequencies, passengers would likely be subject to the same travel restrictions between Chicago and Indy (#50 on only, #51 off only) as their Northeastern counterparts are between ALX and NYP (#50 off only, #51 on only)--45% of the route subject to a ban on local travel.
krtravelerMillennium Station: The connection is already in place if another operator provides service. A potential problem is if an electric engine is a must.
Millennium Station, formerly known as Randolph Street Station, has always been strictly a suburban electric back to the IC/CSS&SB days, as it is underground (under Grant Park, now under Millennium Park). AFAIK, the IC terminal for steam and diesel-powered trains was always at 12th St.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm krtravelerMillennium Station: The connection is already in place if another operator provides service. A potential problem is if an electric engine is a must. Millennium Station, formerly known as Randolph Street Station, has always been strictly a suburban electric back to the IC/CSS&SB days, as it is underground (under Grant Park, now under Millennium Park). AFAIK, the IC terminal for steam and diesel-powered trains was always at 12th St.
The South Shore borrowed a RTA diesel powered push pull set for around 10 years, running it into and out of Randolph St. So not a "must" although I do think the locomotive is restricted to only use certain tracks.
An "expensive model collector"
Even the IC ran specials, steam powered, but not during rush hours. Usually only on weekends.
Running a passenger service to a terminal one mile from the main Amtrak terminal is a step backward. Any train running to Indianapolis should use Union Station, not Millennium or LaSalle St. The ILDOT plan is to have a higher speed line south to Champaign and split there east to Indianapolis and west to St. Louis.
A very remote possiblity with all the money being spent on the
The rush-hour exclusion will prevent any realistic intercity service from using Randolph St.
The r
schlimmRunning a passenger service to a terminal one mile from the main Amtrak terminal is a step backward. Any train running to Indianapolis should use Union Station, not Millennium or LaSalle St. The ILDOT plan is to have a higher speed line south to Champaign and split there east to Indianapolis and west to St. Louis.
If a passenger from Indy really needs to change trains in Chi-Town, he or she should be able to get a free transfer via taxi and all transfers should be handled by regional authorities like MWHSR or IDOT if the dueling railroads aren't willing to do so on their own.
krtravelerAs long as everything goes through Union Station, the problem with overcrowding will still be there.
Overcrowding? Prior to Amtrak's arrival, the PRR, CB&Q and GM&O managed to handle 58 long distance departures and arrivals daily along with the Q commuter scoots + however many PRR Valpo locals ran. in the south concourse. And there are plans to modernize the station. Amtrak currently has about 54 departures and arrivals per day + the Metra BNSF, HC and SWS commuter trains.
When South Shore ran a leased RTA set (F40PH plus 5(?) bi-levels), the South Shore platfoms were mostly in the open but the diesel train could only load on one track since all other tracks had high platforms which RTA bi-levels (and Superliners) can't use. The diesel train also operated non-stop between Randolph Street and Hegewisch since all IC stations have high platforms.
The upper level (South Shore) at Randolph Street is relatively underutilized but much of it seems to be also used for midday car storage.
krtraveler Decision Day came a lot earlier than expected. The winning bidder was Corridor Capital, who narrowlybeat Iowa Pacific.
Decision Day came a lot earlier than expected. The winning bidder was Corridor Capital, who narrowlybeat Iowa Pacific.
So how to make Amtrak look bad on other routes ? Just get your dispatchers to have this Hoosier service arrive on time every day ?
Since the Hoosier is going to be run with non-Amtrak equipment maintained by non-Amtrak personnel, I wonder if any adjustment of the workforce will occur.
It's not logical that a private operator could provide and maintain one train set cheaper than Amtrak's Chicago workforce, but apparently there were two who think they can do so. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I'd think other states will be taking more than a casual interest.
Dakguy201 Since the Hoosier is going to be run with non-Amtrak equipment maintained by non-Amtrak personnel, I wonder if any adjustment of the workforce will occur. It's not logical that a private operator could provide and maintain one train set cheaper than Amtrak's Chicago workforce, but apparently there were two who think they can do so. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I'd think other states will be taking more than a casual interest.
One set of equipment? This works well with a Sunday, Wednesday, and Friday round trip from Indianapolis to Chicago and back. But, how is it worked with the Chicago to Indianapolis trip on Monday evening and back on Wednesday evening? Sunday night the equipment arrives in Indianapolis; is it put on the Cardinal the next morning so it can run east again on Monday? Then, after it comes into Chicago on Tuesday, is it put on the Cardinal that evening, so it can run west on Wednesday?
Or, is it deadheaded?
Johnny
The only way he can really make it work is to run daily each way and not coordinate with the Cardinal. But that would mean loss of revenue to Amtrak.
It looks like they're using rebuilt ex Amtrak,ex ATSF bilevel cars. Let's see how a new operator does on this route. Sometimes change is good!
schlimm krtravelerAs long as everything goes through Union Station, the problem with overcrowding will still be there. Overcrowding? Prior to Amtrak's arrival, the PRR, CB&Q and GM&O managed to handle 58 long distance departures and arrivals daily along with the Q commuter scoots + however many PRR Valpo locals ran. in the south concourse. And there are plans to modernize the station. Amtrak currently has about 54 departures and arrivals per day + the Metra BNSF, HC and SWS commuter trains.
dakotafred schlimm krtravelerAs long as everything goes through Union Station, the problem with overcrowding will still be there. Overcrowding? Prior to Amtrak's arrival, the PRR, CB&Q and GM&O managed to handle 58 long distance departures and arrivals daily along with the Q commuter scoots + however many PRR Valpo locals ran. in the south concourse. And there are plans to modernize the station. Amtrak currently has about 54 departures and arrivals per day + the Metra BNSF, HC and SWS commuter trains. MILW was there, too (if that changes Schlimm's train totals).
I was referring only to the south concourse at Chicago Union Station.
krtravelerDecision Day came a lot earlier than expected. The winning bidder was Corridor Capital, who narrowlybeat Iowa Pacific. The bad news? It looks like it's nothing more than an equipment swap because Amtrak will continue to operate the train--and therefore, Chicago's other major stations (in this instance, LaSalle & Randolph St.) will still miss out on intercity rail for the foreseeable future. There are some routes that would be better off operated by someone else, and the Hoosier State being the only nondaily corridor route is one of them. Anyway, if INDOT moves the Hoosier State to different times, it could still form a corridor and move away from Amtrak later on--if additional trains prove successful.
Randolph Street Station has never had intercity service (IC intercity service terminated at Central Station) and LaSalle Street just had a handful of Rock Island trains after Penn Central moved out in 1969. Besides, moving to a location other than CUS would make connections more difficult.
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