There are unconfirmed reports that some Downeasters are having standees or seatings on floor. Does anyone have any confirmation ? These people seem to be commuters on discounted multi ride tickets. Another item is that there are many New Hampshire persons on the trains. Maybe tiime for NH to pony up any maybe pay for rebuilding of some coaches ? Any thoughts ?
edit; changed title due to more info----------
Mass and Maine need some leverage to get NH to pony up some money for the train.
Lots of people live in NH and work in Mass. How about some toll barriers at the state line that would disproportionately effect NH residents. In fact, let Mass residents claim toll paid against state income tax owed. It probably wouldn't pass constitutional muster, but perhaps just talking about it would do the trick. OTOH, Delaware has a single barrier toll on I-95 at their border with MD, so maybe it would be okay.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
blue streak 1 There are unconfirmed reports that some Downeasters are having standees or seatings on floor. Does anyone have any confirmation ? These people seem to be commuters on discounted multi ride tickets. Another item is that there are many New Hampshire persons on the trains. Maybe tiime for NH to pony up any maybe pay for rebuilding of some coaches ? Any thoughts ?
The average load factor on the Downeasters during FY12 was 38.5 per cent. Unless there has been a big jump in ridership this year, the reports of standing room only, if accurate, probably are one-offs.
Train #680, which arrives in Boston at 7:50 a.m., appears to be the only train that would be suitable for commuting. It could have standing room only. The next train, Number 682, which arrives in Boston at 10:30 a.m. is even a bit late for bankers and lawyers.
The first train to Portland, Number 681, does not arrive in Portland until 11:40 a.m. It is not likely to draw a lot of commuters.
Sam1 The average load factor on the Downeasters during FY12 was 38.5 per cent. Unless there has been a big jump in ridership this year, the reports of standing room only, if accurate, probably are one-offs. Train #680, which arrives in Boston at 7:50 a.m., appears to be the only train that would be suitable for commuting. It could have standing room only. The next train, Number 682, which arrives in Boston at 10:30 a.m. is even a bit late for bankers and lawyers. The first train to Portland, Number 681, does not arrive in Portland until 11:40 a.m. It is not likely to draw a lot of commuters.
Similar to the Hiawathas between Chicago & Milwaukee. Seating is usually not a problem but the 5:08 from Chicago has been SRO on more than one occasion when I have travelled over the years.
Changed title due to info that inbound commuter and outboud one are the full trips. Seems to be filing up with NH riders. Maybe NH boarders need to pay more ? 0755 arrival in BON & 5:00 PM & 6:45 PM departures.
NH as a state don't like taxes and don't like paying for anything when they can get others to pay it for them. They have been able to stay away from paying for the Downeaster service letting Maine pay most of the bill. LIkewise they have rejected Boston's MBTA suggestions of commuter services from Manchester among places despite the clogged Interstate highways.. But you get the feeling that if Mass and MBTA wanted to run trains from Manchester, they'd let them pay for it.
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New Hampshire people have always been an independent lot, but the situation was exacerbated by all the ex-Massachusetts people moving to NH that consider themselves tax refugees.
As I read the comments the facts seem to be that NH does not participate in the subsidy for the train but Maine, and perhaps MA do. Second fact is that lots of people are boarding in NH and crowding, or perhaps even displacing folks from MA and ME.
Simple solution is to not stop the train in NH. Problem solved.
Mac
PNWRMNM As I read the comments the facts seem to be that NH does not participate in the subsidy for the train but Maine, and perhaps MA do. Second fact is that lots of people are boarding in NH and crowding, or perhaps even displacing folks from MA and ME. Simple solution is to not stop the train in NH. Problem solved. Mac
You then also lose all of the revenue that they are adding. Might be a net negative.
Perhaps a better solution is a relatively higher fare for those boarding in NH, to partially make up for the lack of state support (the NH passengers would be providing the subsidy directly!). Some fewer NH riders while still maintaining NH service, possibly higher revenues -- win-win?
Dragoman PNWRMNM As I read the comments the facts seem to be that NH does not participate in the subsidy for the train but Maine, and perhaps MA do. Second fact is that lots of people are boarding in NH and crowding, or perhaps even displacing folks from MA and ME. Simple solution is to not stop the train in NH. Problem solved. Mac You then also lose all of the revenue that they are adding. Might be a net negative. Perhaps a better solution is a relatively higher fare for those boarding in NH, to partially make up for the lack of state support (the NH passengers would be providing the subsidy directly!). Some fewer NH riders while still maintaining NH service, possibly higher revenues -- win-win?
I think either solution would be fair, however, I don't think Amtrak would want to fight a potential discriminatory pricing lawsuit. I think Mac's idea to eliminate those stops would bring NH to the table, now that their residents are habituated to the service. If not, Maine could save operating cost by not hauling so many coaches for the short haul NH fares which don't cover their costs anyway.
In Fy12 the Downeasters could have broken even by implementing an average fare increase of 7.3 cents per passenger mile or $7.88 from Portland to Boston. They could have done away with the subsidies, and New Hampshire would not be an issue.
Raising the fare may have driven away some passengers. However, if the sponsors did a full court marketing press on the advantages of the train compared to driving, they may have been able to pull off the fare increase without any serious erosion of riders and revenues.
With the fare increase as per above, the average fare from Portland to Boston would have been $29.88, which compares to an average bus fare of $24.00. However, the cost to drive a mid-size car, according to the AAA, would have been $65.66 for one person and half of that for two people. In any case, without subsidies, the train could beat the car.
"I think Mac's idea to eliminate those stops would bring NH to the table, now that their residents are habituated to the service."
I wonder what percentage of New Hampshire's taxpayers ride the trains. My guess is that it is pretty small, and I doubt that they have much clout with the politicians. My second guess is that most people in New Hampshire could care less about the Downeasters, Amtrak, or trains in general.
Sam1 "I think Mac's idea to eliminate those stops would bring NH to the table, now that their residents are habituated to the service." I wonder what percentage of New Hampshire's taxpayers ride the trains. My guess is that it is pretty small, and I doubt that they have much clout with the politicians. My second guess is that most people in New Hampshire could care less about the Downeasters, Amtrak, or trains in general.
1) it's been tried but doesn't work. 2) many of those NH passengers are to or from MA and ME and are students at NH schools. They pride themselves in NH for not having income taxes, etc. but there are other costs of living there plus lack of quality services which make it not as much a Utopia as one might think.
some what article about more service. Who can find the errors.??
http://www.sunjournal.com/news/maine/2013/10/21/amtrak-considers-more-brunswick-trips/1439984
I read the article and cannot really find errors. I know the towns mentioned and have followed the start up and use of Downeaster service closely over the years and am not surprised at the success it has met nor the businesses who have benefited. There are misconceptions about what problems an overnight layover facility will create. I really don't see any errors...the service runs Brunswick to North Station in Boston and at present includes a deadhead move from Portland to Brunswick in the morning and from Brunswick to Portland in the evening.
blue streak 1 some what article about more service. Who can find the errors.?? http://www.sunjournal.com/news/maine/2013/10/21/amtrak-considers-more-brunswick-trips/1439984
Only one error. The reporter said "dead end" when she meant "dead head." I'd guess because "dead head" sounded like nonsense to her so she substituted the closest thing that was in her vocabulary.
Interesting article, though.
oltmannd . The reporter said "dead end" when she meant "dead head." I'd guess because "dead head" sounded like nonsense to her so she substituted the closest thing that was in her vocabulary. Interesting article, though.
. The reporter said "dead end" when she meant "dead head." I'd guess because "dead head" sounded like nonsense to her so she substituted the closest thing that was in her vocabulary.
I believe the problem with NH stations is that there are many from ME and MA going there plus many going to ME and MA, so the fares they pick up are worth the stops.
The major error I see in the article is that the ridership information seems to be completely wrong. Unless I ride on totally "off" days, there is less than a half a coach load of pasengers on these trains. Most of these go to Brunswick with less than half a dozen getting on & off in Freeport. There is considerable business out of Portland and points south but north of Portland there is plenty of choice of seats. The train takes far longer than driving and I mostly drive to Portland to board there even though I live north of Brunswick because I can leave my house a half hour later and still be in Portland in plenty of time to catch the train. Fares are cheaper from Portland too if you use the senior discount which isn't available on the 5:00 return from Boston. Plus if I miss the 5:00 there is no way to get to Brunswick to retrieve my truck unless I stay over another night. The whole service north of Portland isn't well thought out or necessary. It should be discointinued and the money spent on increasing the capacity south of Portland.
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