Amtrak Coast Daylight status???

[schlimm]

This will all be a moot point once the CA HSR services begin.   A Coast Daylight would only attract sightseers and apparently there haven't been enough of those in 50 years.

[daveklepper]

yes, good idea, remember a wonderful trip on the Shasta Dayight in SP days, and I did use the Amtrak replacement for the Lark when it ran.   But rode the old Coast Daylight as well.

[erikem]

Keep in mind that I have I have been a California resident for over 5 decades and was quite familiar with his first two terms as governor. He could have done a better job of picking people working for his administration, someone like Jim Mills would have made a better head of CalTrans than Gianturco and his energy didn't make sense.

One of the things that changed the airline industry in California was PSA flight 182's wing hitting the rear of the Cessna in 1978. Before that, only LAX and SFO had Terminal Control Areas, after that several other airports has TCA's implemented. These resulted in schedules being slowed down - PSA allowed 1 hour for SAN-OAK non-stop, Southwest schedules 1.5 hours.

As for an overnight LA-OAK overnight train, it might make more sense to have a resurrection of the SP Daylight and make the Coast Starlight the nighttime train between LA and OAK. That way it would be running by Mt Shasta during the day.

- Erik

[narig01]

Erikem: Brown was known as a fiscal conservative during his 1st two terms as governor. At the end of his first term in 1978 he had a 5 billion surplus in available cash. He was known for thinking outside the box to craft solutions. Some of which caused him a lot of grief.
Today their is no where near the short haul intrastate airline service of the 70's. California intrastate air service was largely unregulated creating a huge intrastate business fueled by $29 dollar fares in north-south air service. United, PSA, and AirCal all competed and had enough passengers to make money. All one needed in the 70's to run an airline in California was to show you were financially solvent and managerial competence. What upset this applecart was out of state carriers buying the onstage carriers for all the landing slots at the states major airports (SFO SMF SJC LAX SAN and later OAK & BUR) .
Amtrak provides considerable service in California over and above it's rail service. The bus feeders have provided considerable reach. That and regional planning commissions encouraging multi modal transfer facilities.
Rgds IGN

[erikem]

A bit OT for the thread, but the biggest source of delay on the LOSSAN line are the stretches of single track between what was CP Cumbres under Miramar Rd and San Juan Capistrano. The worst and possibly most expensive to correct is the stretch through San Clemente.  There is a section of the that line where the high tide line is on the rip rap protecting the roadbed and the inland side is perhaps 10 feet from the bluffs.

There are a significant number of people, me included, whose commute traverses the Surf Line though San Clemente.

- Erik

[blue streak 1]

"Also keep in mind that the San Diegan was a short haul (~110 miles) through a densely populated territory which makes a lot more sense for rail passenger service than the medium haul LA - Bay Area market.

Amen brother Erik!

Eric & Sam1.  These are good points which started me thinking how does any planner get to the ideal rail configuration?..  probably some thought necessary but  as an example the ~2:45 transit time SAN --  LAX is a starting point.  intermediate rail travel times complicates the equation. But how important is that reduction ?  A very detailed survey of passengers is needed to determine what the present passengers anticipated total travel times are.  ie time to and from origination & destination stations + rail travel time + wait time.

Then an analysis of the population densities / work place, etc  around these stations. By reducing rail travel time say 20 minutes how much more locations / population wll be added to possible same total travel time.

Maybe then using the same ratio of original population / rail travelers to get new # of potential rail travelers ?  If this analysis may work then a better cost / benefit return can be calculated ?  Even reduction in total times for those inside original circle may attract some riders.

The many variables like weater, life style, # autos, etc also enter in.

So each location in the US would need separate study but maybe some base line can be developed ?  One place might be the NEC  NYP  --  PHL when completed ?

 

 

[Anonymous]

"Also keep in mind that the San Diegan was a short haul (~110 miles) through a densely populated territory which makes a lot more sense for rail passenger service than the medium haul LA - Bay Area market.

Amen brother Erik!

[erikem]

narig01

To continue. After the end of Jerry Brown's term as the 34th Governor of California a lot of projects in their infancy were dismantled by the next administration of George Deukmejian. The San Diegans (now Pacific Surfliners) were wildly popular and could not be easily cut. The San Joaquins almost died. The overnite Los Angeles - Oaklland - Sacramento train never had a lot of passengers. The only good thing that could be said about the last train was when they introduced a sleeper it sold out every trip. The bad thing was limited sleeper space. Further most of the passengers using it where California Dept of Argriculture managers who then were dealing with a growing invasion of Mediterranean Fruit Flys. The train quickly got the nickname of the "MedFlyer".

The increase in San Diegan service was pushed by state Sen Jim Mills who made an effort to get a buy-in from Republicans such as San Diego Mayor Pete Wilson. Also keep in mind that the San Diegan was a short haul (~110 miles) through a densely populated territory which makes a lot more sense for rail passenger service than the medium haul LA - Bay Area market.

The business case for an overnight train between LA and the Bay Area was pretty weak then and still is now. Back then, PSA and Air Cal offered frequent flights between several airports in the LA area and several airports in the Bay area, making it possible to travel between the area and return in the same day. The same is still true now, though Southwest is providing most of that service.

George Deukmejian did get the state finances back in order after Brown's two terms.

- Erik

[schlimm]

Lengthy, "but very interesting!!"  

  Thanks.

[narig01]

To continue. After the end of Jerry Brown's term as the 34th Governor of California a lot of projects in their infancy were dismantled by the next administration of George Deukmejian. The San Diegans (now Pacific Surfliners) were wildly popular and could not be easily cut. The San Joaquins almost died. The overnite Los Angeles - Oaklland - Sacramento train never had a lot of passengers. The only good thing that could be said about the last train was when they introduced a sleeper it sold out every trip. The bad thing was limited sleeper space. Further most of the passengers using it where California Dept of Argriculture managers who then were dealing with a growing invasion of Mediterranean Fruit Flys. The train quickly got the nickname of the "MedFlyer".
Unfortunately Adriana Gianturco was much reviled for any number of things. She was trying to run a Dept that up until her administration was only concerned with building more freeways. A large number of Caltrans management were only highway engineers and were not receptive when Brown early in his administration put other things in Caltrans like airports, ports(water), and of course rail.
Gianturco was so reviled that after several incidents her mail was screened for potential mail bombs. She also started carpools lanes in Los Angeles.
Brown in the end got the moniker of Governor Moonbeam for his forward thinking. He tried a lot during his administration some stuck some were cut and later reborn. Some are now being looked at again during his current term

Sorry for the lengthy history. If ever there was a state of confusion California would certainly qualify.
Thx IGN

[narig01]

Johnny. The overnite Bay Area Los Angeles train ran during the 70's. The train was instigated by Adriana Gianturco. The train survived mostly on her support as director of CalTrans. At the end of Jerry Brown 's terms in the

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-02-22/news/vw-25823_1_diamond-lane

[Deggesty]

And, Amtrak had an overnight train between LA and Sacramento for a time. Was it lack of patronage or that the equipment was needed elsewhere that caused its demise?

[daveklepper]

But air travel is not the joy it used to me, there is a growing nostalgia market, and the route might be the second location for the new Pullman experiiment if Chi-NO proves a success.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

blue streak 1

The present schedule of the Coast Starlight actually is a day train LAX -- OAK. Check the schedules.  Now if there was a night train SFO  --  San Diego that would provide two train service from LAX -- SFO area.  If proper arrangements could be made the train could split / combine at San Jose.  Cal Train could carry part of the train cars on the end of a baby bullet and the rest on the rear of Capitol corridor trains.  If northbound train is late there is always another.  This schedule would allow rotation of equipment to the Oakland maintenance facility.   Of course there is the question of no equipment yet available ?  

EDIT:   Using the present starlight schedules departures at LAX & SFO could be at 8:00 PM with arrival at the other end at 8:00 AM.  SAN  3 hours earlier / later but could fill in for one of the surfliners  San Luis Obispo - - San Diego..

If there any real market for a Bay Area-Los Angeles overnighter?  SP discontinued the "Lark" in 1968 or 1969 because the market wasn't there anymore.

[dakotafred]

schlimm

I was serious.  Sorry if you found the opportunity to take offense, but there really are a lot of people who do not know how to find information on the internet.

 

So, I taught him how to fish. If that's the worst thing I ever do on here ...

[daveklepper]

Peace!!!    A suggestion is not the same as an insult.

[schlimm]

I was serious.  Sorry if you found the opportunity to take offense, but there really are a lot of people who do not know how to find information on the internet.

[blue streak 1]

The present schedule of the Coast Starlight actually is a day train LAX -- OAK. Check the schedules.  Now if there was a night train SFO  --  San Diego that would provide two train service from LAX -- SFO area.  If proper arrangements could be made the train could split / combine at San Jose.  Cal Train could carry part of the train cars on the end of a baby bullet and the rest on the rear of Capitol corridor trains.  If northbound train is late there is always another.  This schedule would allow rotation of equipment to the Oakland maintenance facility.   Of course there is the question of no equipment yet available ?  

EDIT:   Using the present starlight schedules departures at LAX & SFO could be at 8:00 PM with arrival at the other end at 8:00 AM.  SAN  3 hours earlier / later but could fill in for one of the surfliners  San Luis Obispo - - San Diego..

[dakotafred]

schlimm

Maybe he isn't as internet savvy as you?

Here's another article:

http://www.newtimesslo.com/news/8281/off-the-rails/

 

Don't be cute. That command bar at the top of the page, however you reach the Internet -- whether via Google or another server -- shows people of normal intelligence and computer experience how to proceed. He found the Trains website, didn't he? 

 

In any case, why were you so slow to be helpful? 

[schlimm]

Maybe he isn't as internet savvy as you?

Here's another article:

http://www.newtimesslo.com/news/8281/off-the-rails/

[dakotafred]

Why not go googling and answer your own question? I typed in 'Amtrak coast daylight' and found a 2012 entry in the California High Speed Rail Blog that lays out the dismal prospects.

[ejjski]

anyone?

[ejjski]

What is the status of Amtrak's proposed Coast Daylight from Los Angeles to San Francisco? I've heard stories that it would be introduced, but some of those were from a decade ago? Is it still in the works?